Free will? really?
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Bondage of the Will #1 by Martin Luther, This Reformer's Most Important Book
Bondage of the Will #1 by Martin Luther, This Reformer's Most Important Book - SermonAudio.com < click
audio reading in 12 parts.
Luther recognized this book as his most important work and even said that if all his other books perished, he would hope that this one, along with his Small Catechism, would be the only ones to remain.
This is one of the most important books of the early Reformation, for it deals with what Luther saw to be the heart of the Gospel.
Luther here refutes the Romish notion of 'free will' in man and upholds the absolute sovereignty of God in the salvation of sinners -- as well as justification by faith alone.
Luther clearly saw the issue of free will as the primary cause of his separation from Rome.
In this book he replied to the Roman Catholic scholar, Erasmus, and his diatribe The Freedom of the Will. Though disagreeing with just about everything else Erasmus wrote, Luther commended Erasmus for recognizing the crux of the matter at issue between Rome and the Bible believers, the debate over 'free will.'
In this regard Luther wrote,
that unlike all the rest, you alone have attacked the real issue, the essence of the matter in dispute (i.e. man's so-called free-will--RB)... You and you alone saw, what was the grand hinge upon which the whole turned, and therefore you attacked the vital part at once; for which, from my heart, I thank you.
Bondage of the Will #1 by Martin Luther, This Reformer's Most Important Book - SermonAudio.com < click
audio reading in 12 parts.
Luther recognized this book as his most important work and even said that if all his other books perished, he would hope that this one, along with his Small Catechism, would be the only ones to remain.
This is one of the most important books of the early Reformation, for it deals with what Luther saw to be the heart of the Gospel.
Luther here refutes the Romish notion of 'free will' in man and upholds the absolute sovereignty of God in the salvation of sinners -- as well as justification by faith alone.
Luther clearly saw the issue of free will as the primary cause of his separation from Rome.
In this book he replied to the Roman Catholic scholar, Erasmus, and his diatribe The Freedom of the Will. Though disagreeing with just about everything else Erasmus wrote, Luther commended Erasmus for recognizing the crux of the matter at issue between Rome and the Bible believers, the debate over 'free will.'
In this regard Luther wrote,
that unlike all the rest, you alone have attacked the real issue, the essence of the matter in dispute (i.e. man's so-called free-will--RB)... You and you alone saw, what was the grand hinge upon which the whole turned, and therefore you attacked the vital part at once; for which, from my heart, I thank you.
and this happens to those that choose of their own free will to believe God or not, which the devil hates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We who choose belief, believe into Christ finished work and are made alive in God's Spirit through belief and by belief God reveals the truth to us and we are thus set free in Christ, singing and praising thankfully to God fro Christ to be our redeemer. he way, the truth and the life, no one gets to the Father except through Christ
We who choose belief, believe into Christ finished work and are made alive in God's Spirit through belief and by belief God reveals the truth to us and we are thus set free in Christ, singing and praising thankfully to God fro Christ to be our redeemer. he way, the truth and the life, no one gets to the Father except through Christ
No matter, we are all left to believe or not believe. This revelation is presented to all via the Holy Ghost, and so all will by the Holy Ghost of God will have had their choice to either believe or not believe in being aware of the consequences of the free will choice they make. So man will have no excuse at Judgment for all will know and all will bow. Now whether all will have chosen freely to believe or not is between God and that person, yet all will be consciously aware of what they have chosen and the consequences will be what they will be.
I believe and for me it is settled, and I thank Christ and Father for this amazing gift that I trust Father to teach me all truth and know Father will and does. This is my free will choice to believe into Christ
I believe and for me it is settled, and I thank Christ and Father for this amazing gift that I trust Father to teach me all truth and know Father will and does. This is my free will choice to believe into Christ
I am free today because the truth from God has made me free, so many misinterpretations, saying we are not free, is making God out to be a tyrant, and God is not, but the devil is and so is the flesh that all here on earth are originally born with.
And by Christ through the cross has set us free from selfish flesh if we choose to believe this is will be, yet only God can reveal this to the one's God knows as he will have Mercy on whom God will have Mercy on, and righteously so, for God knows who have the wrong motives and who don't. So he will have Mercy on whom he will have Mercy, no, ands, ifs or buts. It is what it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God is my friend thanks to Christ
For if one seeks God
"Comfort God by letting God know that you would see God just to dwell in God's Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for God. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."
one shall know God and God's tremendous love and will not neglect because those that do will not escape
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
And by Christ through the cross has set us free from selfish flesh if we choose to believe this is will be, yet only God can reveal this to the one's God knows as he will have Mercy on whom God will have Mercy on, and righteously so, for God knows who have the wrong motives and who don't. So he will have Mercy on whom he will have Mercy, no, ands, ifs or buts. It is what it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God is my friend thanks to Christ
For if one seeks God
"Comfort God by letting God know that you would see God just to dwell in God's Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for God. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."
one shall know God and God's tremendous love and will not neglect because those that do will not escape
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Free will means to freely desires or to love from your heart whatever you want. Repent means to turn from and which God didn't forced himself to change the hearts of us, He has given us a free choice. If someone is forced to love God, doesn't love God at all. It has to be from the heart ( from their own desires). If a person is a lover of sin, God will let them live among it without His presence and see if you will still love sin; but if a person still does love sin after going through the time of testing, that soul doesn't have God in them at all, and which makes them apart of darkness. Darkness is giving us an illusion that it is filled with life and which will make us believe that sin isn't bad at all. But without God's presence will be no life at all.
What better gift is there than eternal Life? That is what is given from God a gift to all that believe are freed unto new life that is everlasting,
John 10:10 is clear what the devil came to do and through flesh Spirit is still trying to do, yet Christ overcame the devil and rose on the third day and took away the keys from the devil to Heaven and hell
For the prince of this world has been Judged
John 16:11 of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
and taken care of. What is left is all the flesh nature to be killed, not by force by free choice. Asking God to co-crucify the self to the cross with Christ and be dead with Christ. So that we might be able to attain the resurrection as Paul so well said in Phil 3. Put no confidence in the flesh, do you think this would include his own flesh that he was originally born with?
Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
John 10:10 is clear what the devil came to do and through flesh Spirit is still trying to do, yet Christ overcame the devil and rose on the third day and took away the keys from the devil to Heaven and hell
For the prince of this world has been Judged
John 16:11 of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
and taken care of. What is left is all the flesh nature to be killed, not by force by free choice. Asking God to co-crucify the self to the cross with Christ and be dead with Christ. So that we might be able to attain the resurrection as Paul so well said in Phil 3. Put no confidence in the flesh, do you think this would include his own flesh that he was originally born with?
Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
just some questions i ask myself
if God is revealing His Righteousness [apart from the Law, the Righteousness He declares by grace through Faith in His Son] - to those He knows have the right motives, is it Mercy...or is it reward?
can you be set free by any other means than The Cross of Christ and God's Mercy?
did you have right motives before you were set free from selfish flesh?
i don't know.
if God is revealing His Righteousness [apart from the Law, the Righteousness He declares by grace through Faith in His Son] - to those He knows have the right motives, is it Mercy...or is it reward?
can you be set free by any other means than The Cross of Christ and God's Mercy?
did you have right motives before you were set free from selfish flesh?
i don't know.
Hi eternal,
I fully agree we have a will, and that God does not remove it..I wholeheartedly affirm that (as all my posts have said!) In fact Romans 1 was one of the verse I used in an earlier post to show the state of man..his nature (which controls the will)
That nature will never choose God (as Romans one says)...however God does change your nature...therefore your your will. we certainly have free agency.
I read through this entire thread with an answer in mind, but when I got to the end I decided it wasn't worth wasting the hard drive space on the server.
Oops, looks like I wasted it anyway
Oops, looks like I wasted it anyway
you've been away for a spell.
in case you're perplexed by certain posts,
i reckon you can decide whether the poster hates zone...or luther.
by all accounts - both
course Prof. Engelsma is Reformed, and i am a Confessional Lutheran,
but he has some wonderful work on Amillennialism
and other things......
"The Pentecostal/charismatic movement is proved heretical by the simple fact that it is the fruit of the theology of Wesley, and Wesley's theology was the false gospel of salvation by the will and work of the sinner himself (Arminianism)."
Prof. David J. Engelsma
Pentecostalism: Its Identity, History, and Influence < click
heya phil,
you've been away for a spell.
in case you're perplexed by certain posts,
i reckon you can decide whether the poster hates zone...or luther.
by all accounts - both
course Prof. Engelsma is Reformed, and i am a Confessional Lutheran,
but he has some wonderful work on Amillennialism and other things.
.....
"The Pentecostal/charismatic movement is proved heretical by the simple fact that it is the fruit of the theology of Wesley, and Wesley's theology was the false gospel of salvation by the will and work of the sinner himself (Arminianism)."
Prof. David J. Engelsma
Pentecostalism: Its Identity, History, and Influence < click
you've been away for a spell.
in case you're perplexed by certain posts,
i reckon you can decide whether the poster hates zone...or luther.
by all accounts - both
course Prof. Engelsma is Reformed, and i am a Confessional Lutheran,
but he has some wonderful work on Amillennialism
and other things......
"The Pentecostal/charismatic movement is proved heretical by the simple fact that it is the fruit of the theology of Wesley, and Wesley's theology was the false gospel of salvation by the will and work of the sinner himself (Arminianism)."
Prof. David J. Engelsma
Pentecostalism: Its Identity, History, and Influence < click
Hi Zone,
It has been a while..I think more or less 6 months (were has the time went). Missed you all.
I will certainly read it..looks like a good read....
I have noticed that there are some weird views..that have always been anathema throughout church history..but keep speaking the truth... because at the end of the day..speaking the truth to someone is an act of Love.
It has been a while..I think more or less 6 months (were has the time went). Missed you all.
I will certainly read it..looks like a good read....
I have noticed that there are some weird views..that have always been anathema throughout church history..but keep speaking the truth... because at the end of the day..speaking the truth to someone is an act of Love.
]I read through this entire thread with an answer in mind, but when I got to the end I decided it wasn't worth wasting the hard drive space on the server.
Oops, looks like I wasted it anyway
Oops, looks like I wasted it anyway
sorry stephen. i thought you meant what you said - the first time.
i don't know why i keep making the same mistake.
E
Rom 1 :
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
It says they freely chose to suppress the truth. One can not supress the truth if they can not understand it.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
God has shown it to them. And it is clearly understood (not like some say and unable to be understood) Thus they are without excuse. If they can not understand and comprehend it all. THEY HAVE AN EXCUSE
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Professing to be wise, they became fools, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and changed the glory of the incorruptible God
God did not change it. they did. By their will
[SUP]25 [/SUP]who exchanged the truth of God for the lie,
They exchanged the truth for a lie. God did not hide it from them, or make it so they could not understand
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,
They freely chose not to retain the knowledge of God. Again, God did not keep it from them
[SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death
Again they know full well. God did not hide it. If they can know this, they can seek truth. This spoke of every one of us at one time in our lives.. The ones who come to Christ are the ones who stop hiding the knowledge of God in sin, and turn to God for help!
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
It says they freely chose to suppress the truth. One can not supress the truth if they can not understand it.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
God has shown it to them. And it is clearly understood (not like some say and unable to be understood) Thus they are without excuse. If they can not understand and comprehend it all. THEY HAVE AN EXCUSE
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Professing to be wise, they became fools, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and changed the glory of the incorruptible God
God did not change it. they did. By their will
[SUP]25 [/SUP]who exchanged the truth of God for the lie,
They exchanged the truth for a lie. God did not hide it from them, or make it so they could not understand
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,
They freely chose not to retain the knowledge of God. Again, God did not keep it from them
[SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death
Again they know full well. God did not hide it. If they can know this, they can seek truth. This spoke of every one of us at one time in our lives.. The ones who come to Christ are the ones who stop hiding the knowledge of God in sin, and turn to God for help!