Sda's: If the Sabbath is an important law of God, then why...?

[Christforme]

1) The patriarchs before Moses are never instructed once to keep the Sabbath but they are instructed on:
Tithing (Gen. 14:20)
Circumcision (Gen. 17:10
Marriage (Gen. 2:24, 34:9)
Does this mean tithing, circumcision and marriage are more important that keeping the Sabbath?

2) Why is there not one example of the Sabbath being kept before Moses?

3) What does this scripture mean to you?

How could Adam, Noah and Abraham keep the sabbath when it became a covenant with Moses and none before?

4) Why is the Sabbath commandment never stated in the New Testament?

5) Why is there no example of exclusively Christians coming together on the Sabbath day as a church or prayer meeting after the resurrection of Christ?

The covenant made to moses and israel was this:
You keep My law, i am your God, and protect you and exalt you among the nations, ect...
But the Sabbath was even before there was a Jew on earth. Genesis 1 and 2.
The ten commandments in the Bible are depicted as the universal law of the whole government of God. They are found in the ark of covenant in heaven, on which God sits above them on the mercy seat. Moses built a pattern to what is in heaven.
2. It was recorded of abraham to keep the deacalogue. Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. -Genesis 26:5
Search for the word laws here in the hebrew.
The ten commandments were not created on mount sinai. They were from the beginning. They exist because God exists. "Sin is the transgression of the law"- 1 john 3:4
And in heaven there cannot be any sin in any way shape or form. And sin is breaking the law. So no sin = no breaking of law in heaven.
3. Jesus told you that His purpose on earth was , not to destroy the law. So no one can claim here that His death on the cross abolished the law. Matthew 5:17 and luke 16:17. Jesus abolished the ceremonial laws ephesians 2:15 and colossians 2:14. (KJV) in other versions the word "contained in ordinances" is missing.
As for the Sabbath. In the NT the Sabbath is mentioned more than 40 times. While sunday is mentioned only 6 times, and all those six times not once does it mention it's a sacred day or that Sabbath was transfered to sunday. Hebrews 4 the word in verse 9 rest is sabbatismos. A keeping Sabbath. Paul cannot teach to break God's law. He himself said, "shall we sin[transgress the law] because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."- romans 6:15
Again "shall we make the law void through faith? Nay, but we ESTABLISH IT."- romans 3:31 verses like these are misses by protestants and catholics. Paul does not teach you to commit iniquity. Otherwise he would be a false prophet, and he's going to meet the fearful judgement of Jesus "depart from me, o Paul, you worker of iniquity" "i never knew you." Matthew 7. There's a link also, between God's commandments, and knowing God. 1 john 2:4 and 1 john 3:4 these false prophets in matthew 7 were breakers of God's law, and they never knew Jesus Christ. Paul is no false prophet, and paul himself said we don't nullify the law, but we establish it.
By the way. Jesus propheised of the destruction of Jerusalem in matthew 24. Did YOU know that this prophecy wss fulilled in 70 AD? This is after the cross of Christ. Anyway, Jesus was concerned about His Sabbath! "And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day" matthew 24:20
Historic proof. Chrisians who keep the Sabbath have always existed after the cross of Christ. There has never been a generation of Christians, in which there were no Sabbath keepers. Proof here --> Sabbath keepers throughout history
I think i made my point. Revelation 14:12 is clear. Saints have faith of Jesus and keep the commandments of God. The before verse was talking about the wicked who receive the mark of the beast. Christians who keep the Law will not receive the mark of the beast.
The vatican is the beast, and it's mark is:
"Sunday is our MARK of authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact."- Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1, 1923
John1429.org "the mark of the beast".

 

[Christforme]

And i am NOT SDA. I believe they are in apostasy.
SDAapostasy.org

 

[Christforme]

You guys STILL on this topic? lol

This topic is going to become global. Every soul on earth is going to chose between sunday and the Sabbath.

 

[Blain]

i don't understand though i mean.. it's not like we saying anything wrong.. it's proven by the scriptures what we are saying is the truth.. but they just move on to another thread and start something else or just say... ( so that gives us the right to steal, kill, etc, etc ) all i can see.. is people blinded by their pride and don't want to leave the illusion their living in.. and rejecting the whole purpose of christianity that magical gift.. we receive when we have faith in god.. and not a law that isn't doing anything, it's a sad thing to see... i see so many people.. even some of my close friends just trapped in sin and think everything is ok because they keep the sabbath holy.. FLEE FROM THIS MAN MADE DOCTRINE BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD COMES UPON YOU.

Josh I like you, you seem to understand the things of God quite well for someone so young.

 

[danschance]

The covenant made to moses and israel was this:
You keep My law, i am your God, and protect you and exalt you among the nations, ect...
But the Sabbath was even before there was a Jew on earth. Genesis 1 and 2.
The ten commandments in the Bible are depicted as the universal law of the whole government of God. They are found in the ark of covenant in heaven, on which God sits above them on the mercy seat. Moses built a pattern to what is in heaven.
2. It was recorded of abraham to keep the deacalogue. Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. -Genesis 26:5
Search for the word laws here in the hebrew.
The ten commandments were not created on mount sinai. They were from the beginning. They exist because God exists. "Sin is the transgression of the law"- 1 john 3:4
And in heaven there cannot be any sin in any way shape or form. And sin is breaking the law. So no sin = no breaking of law in heaven.
3. Jesus told you that His purpose on earth was , not to destroy the law. So no one can claim here that His death on the cross abolished the law. Matthew 5:17 and luke 16:17. Jesus abolished the ceremonial laws ephesians 2:15 and colossians 2:14. (KJV) in other versions the word "contained in ordinances" is missing.
As for the Sabbath. In the NT the Sabbath is mentioned more than 40 times. While sunday is mentioned only 6 times, and all those six times not once does it mention it's a sacred day or that Sabbath was transfered to sunday. Hebrews 4 the word in verse 9 rest is sabbatismos. A keeping Sabbath. Paul cannot teach to break God's law. He himself said, "shall we sin[transgress the law] because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."- romans 6:15
Again "shall we make the law void through faith? Nay, but we ESTABLISH IT."- romans 3:31 verses like these are misses by protestants and catholics. Paul does not teach you to commit iniquity. Otherwise he would be a false prophet, and he's going to meet the fearful judgement of Jesus "depart from me, o Paul, you worker of iniquity" "i never knew you." Matthew 7. There's a link also, between God's commandments, and knowing God. 1 john 2:4 and 1 john 3:4 these false prophets in matthew 7 were breakers of God's law, and they never knew Jesus Christ. Paul is no false prophet, and paul himself said we don't nullify the law, but we establish it.
By the way. Jesus propheised of the destruction of Jerusalem in matthew 24. Did YOU know that this prophecy wss fulilled in 70 AD? This is after the cross of Christ. Anyway, Jesus was concerned about His Sabbath! "And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day" matthew 24:20
Historic proof. Chrisians who keep the Sabbath have always existed after the cross of Christ. There has never been a generation of Christians, in which there were no Sabbath keepers. Proof here --> Sabbath keepers throughout history
I think i made my point. Revelation 14:12 is clear. Saints have faith of Jesus and keep the commandments of God. The before verse was talking about the wicked who receive the mark of the beast. Christians who keep the Law will not receive the mark of the beast.
The vatican is the beast, and it's mark is:
"Sunday is our MARK of authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact."- Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1, 1923
John1429.org "the mark of the beast".

1) NOPE. The question was: If the Sabbath is so important, then why is it not affirmed until Moses and after, animal sacrifice, circumcision and marriage?

2) NOPE. The second question is really tied in with the first question. The Sabbath is not mentioned, AT ALL until Moses. God's moral law has always existed, but His ceremonial laws were created much later.

3) NOPE. Here is the scripture I failed to post properly.

2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
4 The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deut.5:2-4

This scripture proves the sabbath was not in existence before Moses.

4) NOPE. The Sabbath is mentioned 42 times in the new testament and never once does it ever say that we as Christians should obey it. It was given to the Jews and never once to the gentiles. Yes, Paul went to the synagogue on Sabbath but to witness to the jews. The early church is never once said to meet on Sabbath.

Jesus kept the Sabbath as jew. After He rose from the dead he never observed the Sabbath again.

 

[Christforme]

1) NOPE. The question was: If the Sabbath is so important, then why is it not affirmed until Moses and after, animal sacrifice, circumcision and marriage?

2) NOPE. The second question is really tied in with the first question. The Sabbath is not mentioned, AT ALL until Moses. God's moral law has always existed, but His ceremonial laws were created much later.

3) NOPE. Here is the scripture I failed to post properly.


This scripture proves the sabbath was not in existence before Moses.

4) NOPE. The Sabbath is mentioned 42 times in the new testament and never once does it ever say that we as Christians should obey it. It was given to the Jews and never once to the gentiles. Yes, Paul went to the synagogue on Sabbath but to witness to the jews. The early church is never once said to meet on Sabbath.

Jesus kept the Sabbath as jew. After He rose from the dead he never observed the Sabbath again.

I have that answered in some way. Sin is breaking God's law. God's law has been from the beginning. Read the Bible and see for yourself. That pattern which moses built was a pattern of what was originally in heaven. Revelation 11:19. John sees the ark of the testament in heaven. And how do you say sabbath was not mentioned until Moses, when God sancitifed and blessed it at creation in Genesis 2?
You do know, that paul in hebrews 4 mentioned the Sabbath? And do you know that Jesus told you His coming on earth was not to destroy the law? How do you back up the claim that after the resurrection, Christ never observed the Sabbath? In direct contradiction with God's own Son's words that He did not come to nullify it.
Sabbath is no ceremonial law. There was no ceremonial laws in the garden of Eden. The Sabbath was made for MAN, as Jesus said, and not just for the Jews. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for MAN. The Decalogue is the ten commandments, it was recorded of Abraham to keep that decalogue before their was a moses. The covenant God made with moses and not with their fathers, but before there were covenants, God had that Decalogue in His ark of testament under His mercy seat which He sits enthroned. And the new covenant by the way is writing that law in your mind and heart. You need more proof you are not free from your obedience to the law?
But I read the Bible, and i know you are a liar and the truth is not in you.
"He that saith, i know Him, and[but] keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him."- 1 john 2:4
"Whosoever commiteth sin is of the devil."- 1 john. 3:8
You want to be of the devil? Go ahead, i can't force you. But your protestant theology goes against Biblical teachings. O, how many times have you excused your obedience to the law because you have faith, when Paul told wrote we don't sin just because we are under grace in romans 6:15.

 

[loveme1]

it's not that judaizers won't listen - they generally won't.

these are strongholds they set up against the knowledge of God, and we must keep tearing them down.

for every SDA/judaizing post, we post 3 proving their doctrine to be lies.
it's WORK.

NEW COVENANT in CHRIST'S BLOOD PLUS ZERO.

What if you were wrong?

What if you were blind to the Truth and your tearing down was actually against the knowledge of God?

 

[loveme1]

This Psalm is Truth is it not?

Psalm 111

111 Praise ye the Lord. I will praise the Lord with my whole heart, in the assembly of the upright, and in the congregation.
2 The works of the Lord are great, sought out of all them that have pleasure therein.
3 His work is honourable and glorious: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
4 He hath made his wonderful works to be remembered: the Lord is gracious and full of compassion.
5 He hath given meat unto them that fear him: he will ever be mindful of his covenant.
6 He hath shewed his people the power of his works, that he may give them the heritage of the heathen.
7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.
8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.
9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.
10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

 

[SpiritofFire]

Please understand that the Sabbath has NOTHING to do with Saturday or Sunday. It was a shadow or a microcosm of the whole picture in order for God to teach us a great worldly lesson! Exodus 16 speaks of Israel in the wilderness, and God giving them "manna" to eat for 6 days!

They found this manna everyday upon the FIELD, and when they tried to save some over for the next day, the manna was found with worms and it spoiled. On the 6th day, God sent manna for 2 days in order that Israel will not have to look for it in the field. They simply gathered what they needed for 2 days, however this time what was left over did not breed worms and stink. But still some went out into the "field" to gather some and it made God angry!

Now we all can continue to hold on to just the literal story of Israel's test in the wilderness, but if you understood Jesus, you HAVE TO apply His DEEPER meaning to the story!

Jesus told us that He was the TRUE BREAD FROM HEAVEN GIVEN TO EAT. And that the bread that was eaten then still left them dead. He also gave you other clues to add in that He said that ALL who came before HIM were thieves and robbers, and that the field is the world!

Now we now that we literally do not eat Jesus, but we apply HIS DIRECT WORDS in our lives in order to live.
Here is a list of the symbolism towards understanding the story on a world level.

Israel = All men
Field = World
Manna from heaven = Words from men MOVED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT
Day = 1000 years with the Lord

God gave Israel (all men) 6 days (6,000 years) to work (labor in the field at their choice) feeding them with manna (words by the prophets). All men gathered (took in what was need for that man to live), some more and some less (ex. everyone doesn't want 3 big screen TV's and a car even if it is free, some people will).

When the day ended, all men had died, even those who took of the manna (words from holy men) from the previous day (generations before them). On the 6th day Israel (all men) are to gather double as what was left over would not breed worms, but WILL SURVIVE THE DAY. We were told to stay in our place (as today we are told to abide in our calling).

And as then, God is ANGRY because there were those who still LOOKED FOR IT IN THE FIELD. And by it the world is led astray.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

When the day ended, all men had died, even those who took of the manna (words from holy men) from the previous day (generations before them). On the 6th day Israel (all men) are to gather double as what was left over would not breed worms, but WILL SURVIVE THE DAY. We were told to stay in our place (as today we are told to abide in our calling).

And as then, God is ANGRY because there were those who still LOOKED FOR IT IN THE FIELD. And by it the world is led astray.

This speaks to me of the parable of the 10 virgins. Those who are wise had their lamps filled with oil (filled with holy spirit) in their lamps to SURVIVE THE DAY.

Suppose for a moment that the reason those who went to look for manna in the field on the sabbath was because they didn't have faith to obey GOD's command to gather extra (be filled with the spirit) on the sixth day. And just like the 5 unwise virgins, they ran out of that which would sustain them in the 7th day.

 

[SpiritofFire]

This speaks to me of the parable of the 10 virgins. Those who are wise had their lamps filled with oil (filled with holy spirit) in their lamps to SURVIVE THE DAY.

Suppose for a moment that the reason those who went to look for manna in the field on the sabbath was because they didn't have faith to obey GOD's command to gather extra (be filled with the spirit) on the sixth day. And just like the 5 unwise virgins, they ran out of that which would sustain them in the 7th day.

Whether wise or not, THEY ARE ALL VIRGINS! If the firstfruits are holy, then the as well. Those who are "looking for manna in the field" are those who are changing the image of God into that of the world, hence we have all these different religions. No building, church, synagogue, or mosque built with human hands contain God in it. He lives in us all.

Now we see the signs of the true Sabbath all around us. We have enough housing, clothing, and food to feed ALL OF MANKIND, but who are we really serving? God (who's image is us who are dying everyday) or a system of debt built to trap us in our own imaginations?

We are all brought up to accept the traditions of the society and land around us. What that means is that the man who is a devout Christian, if he were born in Iraq, would be a devout Muslim! This is that manna in the field.

3,000 years ago, whomever said that homosexuality was wrong and not to do it, for that time it was beneficial. We did not have 7 billion people on the earth. In our time however, does this (who was spoken again by HOLY MEN) align with the TRUE MANNA of heaven, Jesus' direct words? He said to love your neighbor as yourself, so in that, the law of homosexuality DOES NOT APPLY. Because that bred worms. In other words, at the end of the day those people DIED!

Revelation 22:11

[SUP]11 [/SUP]He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

This is what it truly means to obey the Sabbath. To let every man abide in his calling. The only way that this can work however, is to love thy neighbor as thyself. The words of Jesus! He truly has made peace between all, and we can see it in the abundance in the land!

 

[Donkeyfish07]

i don't understand though i mean.. it's not like we saying anything wrong.. it's proven by the scriptures what we are saying is the truth.. but they just move on to another thread and start something else or just say... ( so that gives us the right to steal, kill, etc, etc ) all i can see.. is people blinded by their pride and don't want to leave the illusion their living in.. and rejecting the whole purpose of christianity that magical gift.. we receive when we have faith in god.. and not a law that isn't doing anything, it's a sad thing to see... i see so many people.. even some of my close friends just trapped in sin and think everything is ok because they keep the sabbath holy.. FLEE FROM THIS MAN MADE DOCTRINE BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD COMES UPON YOU.

That's actually something I've never seen anybody answer. Where does this come from that it's ok to teach to break that particular commandment but it's not ok to break the rest of them? It's a valid question. Obviously we aren't under the law, we are under grace.....but that doesn't mean we can kill or steal all we want now either. Why must we abide by the other 9 to the best of our ability but completely ignore that one?

Personally I think the bible makes it very clear that we aren't to judge each other in respect of Holy days and everybody here (with maybe one or two exceptions) is aware that Sabbath keeping is not where a man's salvation comes from so I don't know why there's such a division over it.

 

[jackdove]

laws were given to moses written on stone as people has forgotten them but before moses everyone was much aware and yes God himself has spoken to them about His laws and who were obidient to it did keep them but again bible does not keep every record of all details so if anyone wants to keep the commandment of God spoken by Him to people before moses so be it or follow what was written on stone which is now written on our hearts.

 

[freeman4]

The Seventh Day Sabbath is a sign and it identifies who Gods Chosen are and it will be a sign forever. So if one does not observe the Seventh day Sabbath they are not identified as Christ's Chosen. I do not say this, scripture does.

[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]Exd 31:13[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]"Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

But how do you know that you are an Israelite? Does that mean that if one is not an Israelite that they should not keep the 7th. day Sabbath? The Sabbath was created for man, all man kind. And yes, it was created. The day God rested form His work He created the Sabbath day.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[SpiritofFire]

The Seventh Day Sabbath is a sign and it identifies who Gods Chosen are and it will be a sign forever. So if one does not observe the Seventh day Sabbath they are not identified as Christ's Chosen. I do not say this, scripture does.

[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, align: left"]Exd 31:13
[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]"Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

But how do you know that you are an Israelite? Does that mean that if one is not an Israelite that they should not keep the 7th. day Sabbath? The Sabbath was created for man, all man kind. And yes, it was created. The day God rested form His work He created the Sabbath day.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I agree. The only issue is that the Sabbath is NOT Saturday. Never before has mankind had this much abundance. We can all truly rest.

 

[SpiritofFire]

We must not abandon common sense! That's what God gave it to us for.

Now I ask, is it a good thing for a man to worship God on Sunday or any day of the week?

You would surely answer "yes", but then it will be followed in some regard by "But.."

There is no "but" if worshipping God on any day of the week is a good thing, therefore it is the overall understanding of what it means to obey the Sabbath that must be questioned.

How can this be and yet we call ourselves "sinners" on everyday of the week?

 

[KohenMatt]

If people don't want to receive the spiritual rest as a blessing, then who are we to push them to have it if they won't listen. Josh is right my friend, if this be a blessing to you as with us, then it's our contentment in the grace of God.

I actually feel very much the same way, only on the other side of the fence. As a Sabbath Keeper, I know the rest and revelation that comes from observing a 7th day Sabbath. But I can't convince anyone of that fact; only God can. All I can do is state my point, and let God bring fruit as He chooses. That's why I've stayed quite on most of the threads since the couple of big ones I joined earlier. Most people here know my stance I hope. But because I know the difference between controversial debates and the things that matter the most, i.e. salvation and the process of maturing, I can focus on those things, and trust that God will allow the seed of the Sabbath to fall on fertile soil if He chooses. If not, that's OK with me. He's the one causing growth, not me.

1 Cor 3:5-8 "What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, evenas the Lord gave opportunity to each one.6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor."

Everyone here on both sides of the fence have verses that "prove" their doctrine. My only concern with a lot of the threads is how judgmental it becomes. State your belief, give your scripture reference, and then trust that your God is big enough to change someone's heart if need be. Honestly, in all of the threads (in at least the time I've been here), has ANYONE changed their stance on the Sabbath? Most likely not. So why does either side keep going at one another? Again, state your belief, give your scripture, and let God take care of the rest. Then we can focus on the weightier matters, and work on becoming one.

Matt 23:23 "“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others."

Have a great day everyone!
Matt

1 Cor 3:5-8 "

 

[zone]

The Seventh Day Sabbath is a sign and it identifies who Gods Chosen are and it will be a sign forever. So if one does not observe the Seventh day Sabbath they are not identified as Christ's Chosen. I do not say this, scripture does.

[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]Exd 31:13[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]"Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

But how do you know that you are an Israelite? Does that mean that if one is not an Israelite that they should not keep the 7th. day Sabbath? The Sabbath was created for man, all man kind. And yes, it was created. The day God rested form His work He created the Sabbath day.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

so, God looks down and see who is observing the Sabbath Day, and knows they are His chosen.
the observance of Sabbath marks them, is the sign of their chosen-ness.
they are identified as Christ's chosen because they do and don't do on a day of the week.

alright.
so virtually no christians throughout history were saved.
but observant jews were saved and are being saved and will be saved.
because they observe the Sabbath.

is this your thesis?
if not, tell me what's wrong with it.

 

[zone]

What if you were wrong?

What if you were blind to the Truth and your tearing down was actually against the knowledge of God?

wrong about what?
are you saved by grace through faith in Christ?
or by faith in Christ plus Sinai Sabbath (= all things written in the Law)?

 

[WomanLovesTX]

This topic is going to become global. Every soul on earth is going to chose between sunday and the Sabbath.

Just saying, something to consider, what if the thing that goes global is the Muslim gain control over the West and enforce Friday as the mark of the beast? Then both Sabbath keepers and Sunday worshipers are forced to change or lose their head. The stuff with RCC changing the times and laws is past. They did it and they fulfilled prophecies. But not too far away in the future is Islam, who has their own calendar to change "the times", and Sharia law to change "the laws." I think the Sunday keepers will also be willing to lose their head before accepting a forced Friday Sabbath.