Sda's: If the Sabbath is an important law of God, then why...?

[RedTent]

I so wish I could make you understand! It means saving our world from destruction, it is that serious. We must learn all of what you say. Circumcision, for instance, that was done externally was only a symbol, it had to be from the heart. We can be circumcised truly without the external. It is truth.

But when you carry these things so far you eliminate all external doing to represent law, you are taking away our guide. You can't say to your children any more to listen to the ten commandments they give the rules of conduct. You have tell your two year old to receive the HS and follow that. Huh? Many adults have the same understanding. They forget that these are rules of conduct in line with every word of scripture. Scripture about following the HS, scripture about love, scripture about the basics of law.

With nothing given in our churches to guide us, the demons are having a field day in our world. Take a look around you. Even I have spent time that I couldn't leave a grocery store because street gangs were shooting outside the store. I have a security system in my home, where I grew up our home was on a road to our sawmill where we never locked our door because someone might need to use our home in an emergency.

It isn't only deciding to ditch the Sabbath, and using all the holy sounding reasons to do it, it goes deeper than that but it is a good start. A very important start. It is not right to say we don't need God, we can make our own rules, even if the first time that was said was 2,000 years ago. It was still said.

 

[josh123]

1) NOPE. The question was: If the Sabbath is so important, then why is it not affirmed until Moses and after, animal sacrifice, circumcision and marriage?

2) NOPE. The second question is really tied in with the first question. The Sabbath is not mentioned, AT ALL until Moses. God's moral law has always existed, but His ceremonial laws were created much later.

3) NOPE. Here is the scripture I failed to post properly.


This scripture proves the sabbath was not in existence before Moses.

4) NOPE. The Sabbath is mentioned 42 times in the new testament and never once does it ever say that we as Christians should obey it. It was given to the Jews and never once to the gentiles. Yes, Paul went to the synagogue on Sabbath but to witness to the jews. The early church is never once said to meet on Sabbath.

Jesus kept the Sabbath as jew. After He rose from the dead he never observed the Sabbath again.

amen brother... common sense alone will tell you this just by reading it..

 

[josh123]

That's actually something I've never seen anybody answer. Where does this come from that it's ok to teach to break that particular commandment but it's not ok to break the rest of them? It's a valid question. Obviously we aren't under the law, we are under grace.....but that doesn't mean we can kill or steal all we want now either. Why must we abide by the other 9 to the best of our ability but completely ignore that one?

Personally I think the bible makes it very clear that we aren't to judge each other in respect of Holy days and everybody here (with maybe one or two exceptions) is aware that Sabbath keeping is not where a man's salvation comes from so I don't know why there's such a division over it.

my dear brother... when your filled with the holy spirit you wouldn't even think of doing such things because your have such love in your heart.. it is just in your nature to love each other so you wouldn't even think about doing these things here let me show you the scripture, but it's a difference though you can't try to love someone must come from inside.. a true love and only the holy spirit can bring that 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
[h=3]Romans 13:8-10 that ok do you see what this is saying here FOR THIS ( this love you have for your neighbor) you will not do such and such hope this anwsers your question[/h]

 

[josh123]

The Seventh Day Sabbath is a sign and it identifies who Gods Chosen are and it will be a sign forever. So if one does not observe the Seventh day Sabbath they are not identified as Christ's Chosen. I do not say this, scripture does.

[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, align: left"]Exd 31:13[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]"Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

But how do you know that you are an Israelite? Does that mean that if one is not an Israelite that they should not keep the 7th. day Sabbath? The Sabbath was created for man, all man kind. And yes, it was created. The day God rested form His work He created the Sabbath day.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

hehe

 

[Brother_Don]

The path that leads to destruction is wide, the path to life is narrow. Choose wisely, and the popular vote, isn't always the most wise.

 

[josh123]

listen.. if we had to keep the sabbath it would be a superior religion and if anyone would want to be saved.. then they would have to keep the sabbath and whoever doesn't would perish...woudn't that be a cult... that we MUST worship on this day to prove our "love" or "loyality" ? i thought the point of christianity was to have faith in god.. not faith on a specific day.. those that make any rational sense people? and i mean.. none of you not even 2nd guessing your actions because you have so much " faith " on the wrong thing.. why not switch that faith from dead works to god... so the truth can be revealed to you

 

[RedTent]

Everyone here on both sides of the fence have verses that "prove" their doctrine. My only concern with a lot of the threads is how judgmental it becomes. State your belief, give your scripture reference, and then trust that your God is big enough to change someone's heart if need be. Honestly, in all of the threads (in at least the time I've been here), has ANYONE changed their stance on the Sabbath? Most likely not. So why does either side keep going at one another? Again, state your belief, give your scripture, and let God take care of the rest. Then we can focus on the weightier matters, and work on becoming one "

I think there are people reading our threads who are listening. When we read someone presenting only one side of what God is telling us, and absolutely blind to anything else, they are telling many people to be blind. Even if we can't make them see God except as through the little peek hole they are aware of for they have limited themselves, we can give the readers a bigger picture. It seems to me we are called on to do that.

 

[RedTent]

listen.. if we had to keep the sabbath it would be a superior religion and if anyone would want to be saved.. then they would have to keep the sabbath and whoever doesn't would perish...woudn't that be a cult... that we MUST worship on this day to prove our "love" or "loyality" ? i thought the point of christianity was to have faith in god.. not faith on a specific day.. those that make any rational sense people? and i mean.. none of you not even 2nd guessing your actions because you have so much " faith " on the wrong thing.. why not switch that faith from dead works to god... so the truth can be revealed to you

Josh, we have to keep the Sabbath to be saved! If we don't we must go to Christ for forgiveness to be saved. It is the law that we keep it and we cannot live with God eternally if we are law breakers. We MUST worship on this day. When we go to Christ it is with repentance, turning around from our not worshipping God as He says, and through Christ it is as if we were not law breakers.

If you add to what God says by saying that this has to do with being a cult, it is faith in the wrong thing, it is dead works, that is not what God says about it. If we are trying to report on what God says, then we must not report that God says these things when God doesn't do that.

 

[loveme1]

wrong about what?
are you saved by grace through faith in Christ?
or by faith in Christ plus Sinai Sabbath (= all things written in the Law)?

The Messiah taught us to Keep the Commandments even to the least.

You see it is not in Keeping the Sabbath, but in believing and Keeping His Word by Hearing and doing like He Commands and the Sabbath is one of those Commandments.

"the just shall live by Faith"

Having received the Word of GOD i shall live by Faith, that when the Messiah tells me i should do this then so be it.

Just like when something happens and i'm recalling His words about forgiving.. or when someone asks me for something.. i'm reminded i should go the extra for that person... and so on and so on.

If i'm to fulfill the royal Law then i had better set my heart on obeying the King that spoke it to us.


By the Grace of GOD i shall live by Faith.

 

[josh123]

Josh, we have to keep the Sabbath to be saved! If we don't we must go to Christ for forgiveness to be saved. It is the law that we keep it and we cannot live with God eternally if we are law breakers. We MUST worship on this day. When we go to Christ it is with repentance, turning around from our not worshipping God as He says, and through Christ it is as if we were not law breakers.

If you add to what God says by saying that this has to do with being a cult, it is faith in the wrong thing, it is dead works, that is not what God says about it. If we are trying to report on what God says, then we must not report that God says these things when God doesn't do that.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Ephesians 2:8 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.Mark 16:16 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6 now who is adding to what god says? i'm sorry i choose to do the right thing and believe in my god and because i let go of myself and let him in he saved me. it is written i choose to follow the way of god. did he say no man can come to me unless they keep the sabbath? i didn't think so..

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The Messiah taught us to Keep the Commandments even to the least.

But he gave us a new commandment that takes precedence over and fulfills all other prior commandments. There is no commandment or law that can override this commandment:

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. John 13:34
​

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Romans 13:8-10
​

The one who does this is well pleasing to GOD. Can't beat that. Living under no condemnation is great.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus' new commandment that overrides and fulfills all others:

Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 1 John 2:8-10
​

Sounds great: love others and there's no occasion of stumbling and displeasing GOD.

But this new commandment really isn't new.

Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 1 John 2:7
​

And what is that old commandment that is new?

Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:17-18
​

 

[josh123]

But he gave us a new commandment that takes precedence over and fulfills all other prior commandments. There is no commandment or law that can override this commandment:

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. John 13:34
​

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Romans 13:8-10
​

The one who does this is well pleasing to GOD. Can't beat that. Living under no condemnation is great.

this is what is happening... look at the story with cain and abel the offerings that cain gave to god and the offering that abel gave to god.. it's exactly what is happening in these days, they trying to do more that isn't required...

 

[john832]

my dear brother... when your filled with the holy spirit you wouldn't even think of doing such things because your have such love in your heart.. it is just in your nature to love each other so you wouldn't even think about doing these things here let me show you the scripture, but it's a difference though you can't try to love someone must come from inside.. a true love and only the holy spirit can bring that 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Romans 13:8-10 that ok do you see what this is saying here FOR THIS ( this love you have for your neighbor) you will not do such and such hope this anwsers your question

Too bad Paul wasn't filled with the Spirit, at least by your definition...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

James (the Lord's brother) wasn't doing any better...

Jas 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

Your opinion and scripture seems to be at odds.

 

[john832]

Jesus' new commandment that overrides and fulfills all others:

Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 1 John 2:8-10
​

Sounds great: love others and there's no occasion of stumbling and displeasing GOD.

But this new commandment really isn't new.

Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 1 John 2:7
​

And what is that old commandment that is new?

Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:17-18
​

Which is the summation of the last six...

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

What does it mean to briefly comprehend something? I think we went to different schools, where I went to school, briefly comprehending something was not doing away with it, it was a short summation of a longer treatise.

Thayer says that briefly comprehended is the following...

G346
ἀνακεφαλαίομαι
anakephalaiomai
Thayer Definition:
1) to sum up (again), to repeat summarily, to condense into a summary
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G303 and G2775 (in its original sense)
Citing in TDNT: 3:681, 429

Strong's says...

G346
ἀνακεφαλαίομαι
anakephalaiomai
an-ak-ef-al-ah'ee-om-ahee
From G303 and G2775 (in its original sense); to sum up: - briefly comprehend, gather together in one.

Now maybe you can explain how "to sum up (again), to repeat summarily, to condense into a summary" or "to sum up: - briefly comprehend, gather together in one." really means that those things which are summed up, or gathered in one really are done away? Or can you?

 

[josh123]

Too bad Paul wasn't filled with the Spirit, at least by your definition...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

James (the Lord's brother) wasn't doing any better...

Jas 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

Your opinion and scripture seems to be at odds.

how does it seem to be odd it's the truth and this is paul talking about how sin had control over his life and he did not know he was sinning until he knew the commandments, he is also talking about the battle with the flesh and spirit what was the point of showing me this? you know... reading and understanding is different than just reading and not understanding

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

this is what is happening... look at the story with cain and abel the offerings that cain gave to god and the offering that abel gave to god.. it's exactly what is happening in these days, they trying to do more that isn't required...

Word...

Cain tried to please GOD by offering the fruits of his labors (works of law). 'I'm offering this to you to show you how much I love you, GOD.'

But unto Cain and to his offering [GOD] had not respect. And Cain was very angry[at GOD], and his countenance fell. Genesis 4:5
​

Abel offered another's blood in exchange for his own (works of faith). 'GOD have mercy on me a sinner'

And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: Genesis 4:4
​

Cain and Abel are like to two men whom Jesus described:

“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.

The Pharisee stood and prayed these things with reference to himself: ‘God, I give thanks to you that I am not like other people—swindlers, unrighteous people, adulterers, or even like this tax collector! I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.’

But the tax collector, standing far away, did not want even to raise his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’

I [Jesus, lord of the earth,] tell you, [the despised tax collector] went down to his house justified rather than [the religious law-keeping pharisee]! For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” Luke 18:10-14
​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Which is the summation of the last six...

And loving GOD with all one's being is a summation of the first four commandments. What is loving GOD with all of one's being? Keeping his commandments.

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21
​

And what are his commandments?

This is [GOD's] commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment (in John 13:34). 1 John 3:23
​

As I said in my earlier post, no commandment or law can override this one. He that does this has obeyed GOD is well-pleasing to him.

 

[josh123]

Word...

Cain tried to please GOD by offering the fruits of his labors (works of law). 'I'm offering this to you to show you how much I love you, GOD.'

But unto Cain and to his offering [GOD] had not respect. And Cain was very angry[at GOD], and his countenance fell. Genesis 4:5
​

Abel offered another's blood in exchange for his own (works of faith). 'GOD have mercy on me a sinner'

And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: Genesis 4:4
​

Cain and Abel are like to two men whom Jesus described:

“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.

The Pharisee stood and prayed these things with reference to himself: ‘God, I give thanks to you that I am not like other people—swindlers, unrighteous people, adulterers, or even like this tax collector! I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.’

But the tax collector, standing far away, did not want even to raise his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’

I [Jesus, lord of the earth,] tell you, [the despised tax collector] went down to his house justified rather than [the religious law-keeping pharisee]! For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” Luke 18:10-14
​

amen brother... same thing happening this present day and they don't realise did you also see who crucified jesus? 33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. day THERE( the most holy place, nowadays the church today) THEY ( the most holy of holy people crucified my lord and savior because of the truth!, nowadays they worshipping in vain leaving jesus out the church and doing their own thing and neglecting the heavenly gift... forms of godliness) it's the same exact thing happen today.... and they condemning themselves and don't realise it... so proud and blinded.. by their own pride which is blocking them from the truth, i believe because the truth is too simple for some people.. they want the truth to be a colorful rainbow or something.. when god is a humble person

 

[john832]

listen.. if we had to keep the sabbath it would be a superior religion and if anyone would want to be saved.. then they would have to keep the sabbath and whoever doesn't would perish...woudn't that be a cult... that we MUST worship on this day to prove our "love" or "loyality" ? i thought the point of christianity was to have faith in god.. not faith on a specific day.. those that make any rational sense people? and i mean.. none of you not even 2nd guessing your actions because you have so much " faith " on the wrong thing.. why not switch that faith from dead works to god... so the truth can be revealed to you

Hmmm, Christ must be describing a cult here...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I am impressed with sriptural exegesis, your opinions not so much.