can anyone interpret matthew 24 vs 30 and 31
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I think we need to define rapture. Yes, Jesus gathers us together when he returns but I can't find any passage that tells us He takes us to heaven. Since we are told that once He returns we will always be with him we should assume that we stay on earth - those of us alive and who remain - to rule with Him during the 1,000 year Day of the Lord.
F
This is true but also notice verses
[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
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[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]Mat 24:29[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]"Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' [fn]
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[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]Mat 24:30[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth [fn] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
Jesus will not return until after the Great Tribulation.[/TD]
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[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
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[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]Mat 24:29[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]"Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' [fn]
[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]Mat 24:30[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth [fn] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
Jesus will not return until after the Great Tribulation.[/TD]
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All anyone may do is share the understanding he has received. The sign of the Son of Man would be the vision of a Lamb slain.
Just as is written in the Epistles, the trumpet will sound and then, first, those who sleep in the dust will be raised to meed Yeshua in the cloud, and, second, those who are yet alive will be taken up also to meet Yeshua in the cloud. This will happen in the twinkling of any eye, and though we do not yet know how we will be, we will all be transformed......
For any sticklers, the oceans will also give up their dead........all who sleep.
Just as is written in the Epistles, the trumpet will sound and then, first, those who sleep in the dust will be raised to meed Yeshua in the cloud, and, second, those who are yet alive will be taken up also to meet Yeshua in the cloud. This will happen in the twinkling of any eye, and though we do not yet know how we will be, we will all be transformed......
For any sticklers, the oceans will also give up their dead........all who sleep.
H
This is what's meant by rapture:
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Thessalonians 4:16)
That will definitely happen, so it's just a matter of when (pre-tribulation, pre-wrath, post-tribulation, etc).
I agree with you that we will remain on earth for the thousand years. Jesus Christ will reign in "the city He loves," and the resurrected saints will be judges.
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Thessalonians 4:16)
That will definitely happen, so it's just a matter of when (pre-tribulation, pre-wrath, post-tribulation, etc).
I agree with you that we will remain on earth for the thousand years. Jesus Christ will reign in "the city He loves," and the resurrected saints will be judges.
Does anyone else understand when Yeshua returns it will be at the end of the Greatest Tribulation ever? This is how I have been given to understand, and there is nothing that has come my way by the Holy Spirit and Holy Scripture that convinces me otherwise. It is not exactly something we may vote on or use our own reason to determine. It is of the Holy Spirit.
Had it been known what the death brought to us through Christ's death, and then the resurrection, then the devil would have never encouraged the crucifixion, seeing how Christ's resurrected life foiled the devil and the devil lost, as in being Judged and defeated by the cross, where Christ took the keys of Heaven and hell away from the Devil.
1 Corinthians 2:8 which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
So all go ahead and do your best to figure out what is coming, for it was known about Christ's coming and evil was foiled, Praise God and evil is and will be foiled again.
1 Corinthians 2:8 which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
So all go ahead and do your best to figure out what is coming, for it was known about Christ's coming and evil was foiled, Praise God and evil is and will be foiled again.
There is also another possibility. Go back a bit in 1 Thes 4. It looks like it is God who is doing the "bringing." If it is God who is referenced here then this could be talking about the final return of God, at the end of the millennial age. If that is the case then the whole timing of the rapture is really in doubt. I think we are all way too focused on the Tribulation period because it is close to us and something we might have to face but there is a far bigger event discussed, the end of this world and the final judgment. It could be that this passage is speaking to that event and Not the trib period.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
G
What does the word 'rapture' mean to you? ( <<<<< Click )
Rapture to me happens when Christ returns (once and only once) where he resurrects the dead in Christ then gathers those of us who are his who are alive and remain. We all meet in the air having been gathered from the four corners of heaven and earth. We are then given glorified bodies and return with Christ to the Jerusalem vicinity to battle the Beast at Armageddon. We do NOT go to heaven at any point, those who are alive and remain. We stay on earth and reign through the Millennium.
How do you see it?
How do you see it?
I've been studying the historical background of Paul's two letters to the Thessalonians. Thessalonica was one of the first cities to be evangelized by Paul and Silas. Paul saw a vision of a man from Macedonia and was invited to "help." Acts 16:9. Thessalonica was the 2nd largest Greek city and the capital of the central region of Macedonia. Religious leaders in the area sought to arrest Paul so he fled. Later in Corinth Paul was joined by Silas and Timothy. Paul sent Timothy back to Thessalonica to check on the new church. Timothy returned and brought good news of the faithfulness of the church even in persecution. The Thessalonians had some questions about the faith so Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians to address these question.
1 Thessalonians was perhaps the first letter Paul wrote (except for possibly Galatians). It was written in around 51 AD or just 18 years after Christ resurrection. A short time later Paul had to write 2 Thessalonians to clear up some false ideas this early church had. The main thing of concern was the "imminent" return of Christ asserted by some to have been taught in the first letter. There were some in the church that suggested Christ had already returned. Paul sought to clarify things in his second letter and instructed that there would be a intervening period of "lawlessness" before Christ returned. Therefore one cannot take 1 Thes and apply it to a pre-trib rapture since Paul later gave the timing as after the Man of Sin is revealed. We know Paul was discussing the same event in both letters because of 2 Thes 2:5.
Thus Paul's two letters when taken together provide the time and describe the events of the Lord's return. Since we know that Paul used 2 Thes to clarify 1 Thes we now see that the Pre-Trib Rapture theory that heavily depended upon 1 Thes 4 is false. See how the story reads when the two letters are merged.
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thessalonians was perhaps the first letter Paul wrote (except for possibly Galatians). It was written in around 51 AD or just 18 years after Christ resurrection. A short time later Paul had to write 2 Thessalonians to clear up some false ideas this early church had. The main thing of concern was the "imminent" return of Christ asserted by some to have been taught in the first letter. There were some in the church that suggested Christ had already returned. Paul sought to clarify things in his second letter and instructed that there would be a intervening period of "lawlessness" before Christ returned. Therefore one cannot take 1 Thes and apply it to a pre-trib rapture since Paul later gave the timing as after the Man of Sin is revealed. We know Paul was discussing the same event in both letters because of 2 Thes 2:5.
Thus Paul's two letters when taken together provide the time and describe the events of the Lord's return. Since we know that Paul used 2 Thes to clarify 1 Thes we now see that the Pre-Trib Rapture theory that heavily depended upon 1 Thes 4 is false. See how the story reads when the two letters are merged.
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
[/quote]Originally Posted by nathan3
Im not sure im comfortable with any rapture, The scripture says Christ is returning here It is a gathering, but it does not say where anyone is taken. Remember Christ is returing here not to leave again. I'm guessing people believe he will leave some where. But where is that written.[/quote]
Scriptures teach that when Jesus comes back for His Saints, they will be gathered together with Him in the sky (clouds) we will then go to our mansions which are in the New City Jerusalem which comes down with Jesus, it will land over the middle east and the whole world will call it a UFO, and all the nations of the world will attack it, and all nations of the world who go against it, will die. Jesus went to prepare a place for us, when He returns, He will be bringing the New City Jerusalem with Him.
^i^
Scriptures teach that when Jesus comes back for His Saints, they will be gathered together with Him in the sky (clouds) we will then go to our mansions which are in the New City Jerusalem which comes down with Jesus, it will land over the middle east and the whole world will call it a UFO, and all the nations of the world will attack it, and all nations of the world who go against it, will die. Jesus went to prepare a place for us, when He returns, He will be bringing the New City Jerusalem with Him.
^i^
Pre-Tribulation is not Scriptural
Post-Tribulation is not Scriptural
Only Mid-Tribulation is Scriptural.
The Church go through some of the Tribulation but not all of it.
Jesus Returns at the last Trumpet, the 7th one.
After the seventh Trumpet is blown, the seven vials are poured out upon the Earth, the Church is not here for the vials being poured out, the purpose of the vials is to wipe unrepentant humans from the face of the Earth. 144,000 children survive the entire 7 year Tribulation period, they are the ones that will repopulate the Earth, they are the ones that we, the Saints will reign over with Jesus Christ.
Please read my article PreTrib to see all the Scriptural support.
^i^
Post-Tribulation is not Scriptural
Only Mid-Tribulation is Scriptural.
The Church go through some of the Tribulation but not all of it.
Jesus Returns at the last Trumpet, the 7th one.
After the seventh Trumpet is blown, the seven vials are poured out upon the Earth, the Church is not here for the vials being poured out, the purpose of the vials is to wipe unrepentant humans from the face of the Earth. 144,000 children survive the entire 7 year Tribulation period, they are the ones that will repopulate the Earth, they are the ones that we, the Saints will reign over with Jesus Christ.
Please read my article PreTrib to see all the Scriptural support.
^i^