can anyone interpret matthew 24 vs 30 and 31
- Thread starter KJVAPOCRYPHA
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S
SpaceCowboy
Guest
You are partially correct dear Brother. The 7th Trumpet declares the Kingdom of the Lord in Heaven. However, the 7th trumpet cannot be seen as a single event i.e. lasting one day. The 7th trumpet lasts a period of weeks or months and they include all the Bowls of Wrath of God. Jesus himself does not return until the 7th bowl for Armageddon. When Paul said, "we are not appointed to wrath," he was not discussing the 7 Bowls of God's Wrath. Paul was long dead and gone before John was caught up in spirit to heaven to write Revelation. Paul was discussing God's final judgment wrath. Paul had no clue about Bowls of wrath and he never discussed them!! Context, context, context. You must understand and put scriptures in the correct context to rightly divide the Word of Truth.
We know from Joel 3 that those of us who understand the Word will know where to go to be protected.
16 The Lord also will roar from Zion, And utter His voice from Jerusalem; The heavens and earth will shake; But the Lord will be a shelter for His people, And the strength of the children of Israel.
17 "So you shall know that I am the Lord your God, Dwelling in Zion My holy mountain. Then Jerusalem shall be holy, And no aliens shall ever pass through her again."
The Lord clearly returns in Rev 19 which is for the Battle of Armageddon. This ties with Mat 24:28 and Luke 17:37. The 7th trumpet lasts through all the bowls. We see that clearly from the description of the events of the 7th trumpet and of the 7th bowl. They are identical:
7th Trumpet (Rev 11):
19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.
7th Bowl (Rev 16):
17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!"
18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.
19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.
See the bolded text in red? We have identical events.
Last edited:
in the op,,,one of the first answers invited him to a privet lesson,and and they left and never responded again. you are responding to a ended post,,,,god has left you behind to teach the few,that is the path of god you see "teach in secret",,,if the devil is your god,,,,,,,,,,,
It means that there comes a day that we will be judged. Therefore, it is time to obey the Lord.
Please read the article Pretrib.
Please understand they are not identical events The seventh Trumpet and the seventh vial are not the same event. When the seventh Trumpet is sounded is when the Temple in Heaven is opened, out of that Temple then comes the last seven vials that will be poured out upon the Earth, the first vial then will be poured out, then the second vial will be poured out, and so forth all the way to the Seventh vial. The blowing of the Seventh Trumpet starts the first vial. Please read my article with way more Scriptural support for what i am saying. click HERE.
^i^
Zechariah 12:10-14:
10 and I will pour out on the house of David and on those living in Yerushalayim a spirit of grace and prayer; and they will look to me, whom they pierced." They will mourn for him as one mourns for an only son; they will be in bitterness on his behalf like the bitterness for a firstborn son. 11 When that day comes, there will be great mourning in Yerushalayim, mourning like that for Hadad-Rimmon in the Megiddo Valley. 12 Then the land will mourn, each family by itself - the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Natan by itself, and their wives by themselves; 13 the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shim'i by itself, and their wives by themselves; 14 all the remaining families, each by itself, and their wives by themselves.
Daniel 7:13-14:
13 "I kept watching the night visions, when I saw, coming with the clouds of heaven, someone like a son of man. He approached the Ancient One and was led into his presence. 14 To him was given rulership, glory and a kingdom, so that all peoples, nations and languages should serve him. His rulership is an eternal rulership that will not pass away; and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Isaiah 27:13:
13 On that day a great shofar will sound. Those lost in the land of Ashur will come, also those scattered through the land of Egypt; and they will worship ADONAI on the holy mountain in Yerushalayim.
L
Laodicea
Guest
*[[Act 1:9-11]] KJV* %v 9% And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. %v 10% And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; %v 11% Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
These verses show when Jesus went to heaven He was taken in a cloud and would return in the same manner, meaning He would return in the clouds of Heaven The verses in Matthew show Jesus returning in the clouds of Heaven.
These verses show when Jesus went to heaven He was taken in a cloud and would return in the same manner, meaning He would return in the clouds of Heaven The verses in Matthew show Jesus returning in the clouds of Heaven.
Okay, I read enough of the article. The beginning part where there is no Pre-Trib, obviously I agree with. But the author is wrong when he says the Lord is coming Mid-Trib. The author doesn't have a solid understanding of Revelation.
Mid-Trib view is inconsistent with other scripture. Let's start with Psalm 110:
1 A Psalm of David. The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."
2 The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion. Rule in the midst of Your enemies!
3 Your people shall be volunteers In the day of Your power; In the beauties of holiness, from the womb of the morning, You have the dew of Your youth.
4 The Lord has sworn And will not relent, "You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek."
5 The Lord is at Your right hand; He shall execute kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the nations, He shall fill the places with dead bodies, He shall execute the heads of many countries.
Therefore the Lord does not return until God has made Jesus' enemies His footstool. The vials or bowls are poured out against the beast and his kingdom. So, the Beast and His kingdom are obviously still in place when the bowls are poured out. When Jesus returns, a sword comes out of His mouth to strike the nations. See Rev 19:
15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
The bowls have to be poured out before this because the beast is still in power then, but not when the Lord returns. I proved this fact by showing the same 5 events for the last bowl as occur during the 7th trumpet which is pretty compelling.
The two witnesses have the power to pour out the vials. All of the plagues are the same as what we saw with Egypt except vial #4. The witnesses are walking the streets of Jerusalem while the beast is doing his thing and they can't be touched until it is time for them to be killed.
Dave,
You have to understand that the 7th trumpet does not take place in a short period of time like one day. The 7th trumpet in Revelation is similar to the one in Joshua's time. All the vials are opened either before or during the sounding of the 7th trumpet.
Look carefully at the words of Rev 10:7
7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.
You have to understand that the 7th trumpet does not take place in a short period of time like one day. The 7th trumpet in Revelation is similar to the one in Joshua's time. All the vials are opened either before or during the sounding of the 7th trumpet.
Look carefully at the words of Rev 10:7
7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.
When Jesus ascended into heaven, according to the record, “a cloud caught him up from their vision.” (Acts 1:9) The disciples did not see Jesus riding away on a cloud, but rather, the cloud obscured their vision of him. This helps us to understand Jesus’ words concerning his presence: “They will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory,” and Revelation’s statement: “He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him.” (Luke 21:27; Matthew 24:30; Revelation 1:7) In past cases, clouds represented invisible presence; but observers could “see” the meaning with their mental “eyes.” In this case the physical occurrences that are visible would cause the one looking to “see” or realize that Christ is invisibly present.—See also Matthew 24; Mark 13; Revelation 14:14.
Just before this comment he had spoken of the prophet Daniel. (Matthew 24:15; Daniel 9:27; 11:31) And from the expression Jesus here used it is evident that he was now referring back to Daniel 7:13, 14, where the vision depicted “with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man” gaining access to “the Ancient of Days” and receiving a ‘kingdom that will not be brought to ruin.’ This linked “the sign of the Son of man” with the time when Jesus would be exercising Kingdom power. Jesus applied the expression “Son of man” and the prophecy at Daniel 7:13, 14 to himself.—Matthew 26:63, 64; Mark 14:61, 62.
About 96 C.E., 26 years after the destruction of Jerusalem, John wrote about things that would take place in the future, and he saw in vision Jesus Christ “coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him.” (Revelation 1:1, 7) Hence, both this statement about something that was to take place after 96 C.E. and what Christ said about “the sign of the Son of man” referred to Jesus as coming in the clouds and as being seen by all people. It should be noted, however, that while the Greek verb ho·ra'o, “see,” used at Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7, can mean literally to “see an object, behold,” it can also be used metaphorically, of mental sight, to “discern, perceive.”—A Greek-English Lexicon, by H. Liddell and R. Scott, revised by H. Jones, 1968, p. 1245, col. 1.
This is evidently an allusion to the prophetic Psalm 110, Jesus Christ having earlier shown that this psalm applied to him. (Matthew 22:42-45) This psalm, as well as the apostle’s application of it at Hebrews 10:12, 13, reveals that there would be a waiting period for Jesus Christ before his Father would send him forth to “go subduing in the midst of [his] enemies.” It therefore appears that the fulfillment of the prophecy in Daniel comes, not at the time of Jesus’ resurrection and ascension to heaven, but at the time of his being authorized by God to take action against all opposers in vigorous expression of his kingly authority. The ‘coming of the Son of man to the Ancient of Days,’ then, apparently corresponds in time to the situation presented at Revelation 12:5-10, when the symbolic man-child is brought forth and caught up to God’s throne. Then war breaks out in heaven, and the cry goes up: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ.”
Matthew 24:31
Biblical evidence indicates that the tribulation upon Jerusalem in 70 C.E. pointed forward to a far greater tribulation. About three decades after Jerusalem’s destruction, the apostle John, with reference to a great crowd of persons from all nations, tribes, and peoples, was told: “These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation.” (Revelation 7:13, 14) Earlier, the apostle John had seen “four angels” holding back destructive winds so that the sealing of the 144,000 slaves of God might be completed. This sealing evidently links up with the ‘gathering of the chosen ones’ that Jesus foretold would follow the tribulation upon earthly Jerusalem. (Matthew 24:31) Accordingly, the “great tribulation” must come after the chosen ones have been gathered and their sealing is completed and when the four angels release the four winds to blow upon the earth, sea, and trees. (Revelation 7:1-4) The fact that a great crowd ‘comes out of the great tribulation’ shows that they survive it.
Just before this comment he had spoken of the prophet Daniel. (Matthew 24:15; Daniel 9:27; 11:31) And from the expression Jesus here used it is evident that he was now referring back to Daniel 7:13, 14, where the vision depicted “with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man” gaining access to “the Ancient of Days” and receiving a ‘kingdom that will not be brought to ruin.’ This linked “the sign of the Son of man” with the time when Jesus would be exercising Kingdom power. Jesus applied the expression “Son of man” and the prophecy at Daniel 7:13, 14 to himself.—Matthew 26:63, 64; Mark 14:61, 62.
About 96 C.E., 26 years after the destruction of Jerusalem, John wrote about things that would take place in the future, and he saw in vision Jesus Christ “coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him.” (Revelation 1:1, 7) Hence, both this statement about something that was to take place after 96 C.E. and what Christ said about “the sign of the Son of man” referred to Jesus as coming in the clouds and as being seen by all people. It should be noted, however, that while the Greek verb ho·ra'o, “see,” used at Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7, can mean literally to “see an object, behold,” it can also be used metaphorically, of mental sight, to “discern, perceive.”—A Greek-English Lexicon, by H. Liddell and R. Scott, revised by H. Jones, 1968, p. 1245, col. 1.
This is evidently an allusion to the prophetic Psalm 110, Jesus Christ having earlier shown that this psalm applied to him. (Matthew 22:42-45) This psalm, as well as the apostle’s application of it at Hebrews 10:12, 13, reveals that there would be a waiting period for Jesus Christ before his Father would send him forth to “go subduing in the midst of [his] enemies.” It therefore appears that the fulfillment of the prophecy in Daniel comes, not at the time of Jesus’ resurrection and ascension to heaven, but at the time of his being authorized by God to take action against all opposers in vigorous expression of his kingly authority. The ‘coming of the Son of man to the Ancient of Days,’ then, apparently corresponds in time to the situation presented at Revelation 12:5-10, when the symbolic man-child is brought forth and caught up to God’s throne. Then war breaks out in heaven, and the cry goes up: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ.”
Matthew 24:31
Biblical evidence indicates that the tribulation upon Jerusalem in 70 C.E. pointed forward to a far greater tribulation. About three decades after Jerusalem’s destruction, the apostle John, with reference to a great crowd of persons from all nations, tribes, and peoples, was told: “These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation.” (Revelation 7:13, 14) Earlier, the apostle John had seen “four angels” holding back destructive winds so that the sealing of the 144,000 slaves of God might be completed. This sealing evidently links up with the ‘gathering of the chosen ones’ that Jesus foretold would follow the tribulation upon earthly Jerusalem. (Matthew 24:31) Accordingly, the “great tribulation” must come after the chosen ones have been gathered and their sealing is completed and when the four angels release the four winds to blow upon the earth, sea, and trees. (Revelation 7:1-4) The fact that a great crowd ‘comes out of the great tribulation’ shows that they survive it.
Matthew chapter 24…….. There is more than what I thought. Here’s how it will be, and what to expect.
Isaiah 13:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Ezekiel 32:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Daniel 12:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Haggai 2:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;
Matthew 24:21-22 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Joel 2:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
Joel 2:10-10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Joel 3:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And thenshall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the cloudsof heaven with power and great glory.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Isaiah 27:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.
Daniel 7:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV)
[SUP]51 [/SUP]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[SUP]52 [/SUP]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Revelation 8:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
Revelation 11:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Isaiah 13:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Ezekiel 32:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Daniel 12:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Haggai 2:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;
Matthew 24:21-22 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Joel 2:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
Joel 2:10-10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Joel 3:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And thenshall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the cloudsof heaven with power and great glory.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Isaiah 27:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.
Daniel 7:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV)
[SUP]51 [/SUP]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[SUP]52 [/SUP]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Revelation 8:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
Revelation 11:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
G
GRA
Guest
It is true that the '7th trumpet' - as representing a series of events occurring over a span of time - is greater than one day in length -- but, the idea of the duration of the sounding of the trumpet [ being "days" long ] is in erroneous...
Revelation 10:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
In the grammar of the language, the word 'days' in this verse is not referring to the duration of the sounding of the trumpet. Rather, it means "a representable span of time around a particular point in time" ( 'around' => "before, during, and after" ) of an occurrence ( in this case, the blowing of the 7th trumpet ). The phrase that starts with the word 'when' actually serves to "pinpoint" the sounding of the trumpet at "a mark in time" within the "days" during which the trumpet is sounded.
"Definitely not 'before'..."
reveals to me that you did not read it all.
What i teach is what God told me, and what He has revealed to me will happen. How can i not have an understanding of Revelations when God had given me the understanding thereof? If what i said in the article contradicts any Scriptures at all then reveal the Scriptures.
You do not understand what Scriptures are teaching. When Christ returns during the 7 year tribulation period, He returns with the New City Jerusalem with Him. After Jesus gathers the Church and we meet Him in the sky, we then go to the New City Jerusalem, where our mansion is, this is where we will then live for a thousand years. At this time, when Jesus comes to the Earth with the Holy City, the Father is in the City as well, and there is when Jesus shall sit by Him, until all His enemies are put under Him. When the New City comes down from Heaven, the nations of the world will attack it, they will all come against the new City where Jesus is at, they are His enemies and they all shall perish whoever comes against the Holy City. So you use all those verses above to say it is inconsistent with Scriptures, the Truth is your belief of what you think the above verses mean, is inconsistent with what is True. The above verses is a prophesy of the time when Jesus first comes down with the New City Jerusalem and indeed there are still enemies alive at that time, this is one of the reasons the vials are poured out AFTER He arrives here on Earth, to wipe out His enemies as the above verses says He will.
True, those are the enemies that will be made into His footstool. The Beast and the wicked will still be here after Christ Raptures the Church, what most people do not understand or realize, is that when Christ returns to the Earth to rapture His Church, He does not go back to Heaven, as people believe, yet no Scriptures support. He stays here on Earth, in the New City Jerusalem that comes down with Him at the time of the Rapture. Out of that City Christ will fight all His enemies. Three and half years after His arrival, is when all his enemies are as His footstool, they are gone, because at the 7th Trumpet Jesus returns to the Earth, and then the vials are poured out on the Earth, to destroy the remainder of the wicked whose names were not found in the Book of Life.
lol, are you reading that verse? Christ returns then He will go about to strike the nations. So He returns, then AFTER He returns He will strike the nations and what else, rule over them. Think about that for a moment. Jesus comes back then He rules over them, does not say He comes back and takes off to Heaven again, but says He comes back and strikes the nations and rules over them. These Scriptures back up perfectly what He has told me.
NO Scripture teaches that. Know you not that it is the bowls being poured out is HOW Christ will strike the nations of the World when He gets here?
Proved? you have shown how similar the 7th bowl is with the 7th Trumpet is all you have shown, and this in itself does not PROVE what you believe. They are not the same event. and i can PROVE it Scripturally, consider:
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16. . . . 17 . . . 18 . . . 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
WHEN was the temple of God opened in Heaven? The Seventh Trumpet is when the temple in Heaven was opened according to these verses, let see what happens when the Temple in Heaven becomes open at the seventh Trumpet.
Rev 15: 5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: 6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
WHEN did the seven angels with the last seven plagues come out of the temple, WHEN the temple was opened. WHEN was it opened? at the 7th Trumpet. So according to plain Scriptures, the seventh Trumpet sounds, the temple in Heaven is opened, THEN comes out the seven angels to pour out the last seven bowls. The 7th Trumpet starts the pouring out of the last seven bowls/vials/plagues. Therefore the 7th Trumpet and the 7th bowl can't possibly be the same event, even if they do appear similar in every way. To believe the 7th Trumpet and the 7th bowl are the same event is to NOT believe Scriptures and what they plainly teach.
Again, nothing He has told me, contradicts what Scriptures teaches. What He told me will happen, will happen even as He told me. Hope this has helped in your studies in some way.
^i^
The mystery of God is Jesus Rapturing His Church unto Himself. That is what the prophets declared. The days of the seventh angel is Christ returning, NOT the fighting that entails afterwards, or the destruction of the wicked after His Return. The mystery is when Christ appears and takes His Church, that mystery is finished. The bowls will then be poured out upon the Earth for the next 3 1/2 years. At the end of the 3 1/2 years, there will be no more wicked people alive ANYWHERE, then the thousand year reign will begin on the Earth, we (the Saints) will rule over the remainder of the humans that made it through the 7 year tribulation period, they will be 144,000 that will repopulate the Earth during that thousand year reign of Christ on Earth.
^i^
LOL!
WHAT UTTER NONSENSE!
A complete idiot would know that's EXACTLY what these 2 verses teach!
It is true that the '7th trumpet' - as representing a series of events occurring over a span of time - is greater than one day in length -- but, the idea of the duration of the sounding of the trumpet [ being "days" long ] is in erroneous...
Revelation 10:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
In the grammar of the language, the word 'days' in this verse is not referring to the duration of the sounding of the trumpet. Rather, it means "a representable span of time around a particular point in time" ( 'around' => "before, during, and after" ) of an occurrence ( in this case, the blowing of the 7th trumpet ). The phrase that starts with the word 'when' actually serves to "pinpoint" the sounding of the trumpet at "a mark in time" within the "days" during which the trumpet is sounded.
"Definitely not 'before'..."
GRA,
The Vials or Bowls are absolutely poured out BEFORE the Sounding of the 7th Trumpet is complete. It took me until just recently to figure this out. But the last event of the Seals, Bowls and Trumpets is the 7th of each. 7-7-7 means "COMPLETENESS and PERFECTION." The last of each seal, trumpet and bowl are describing the same 5 events, then the Lord returns. You said earlier that the 6th seal encompasses the 7 trumpets but that view is dead wrong which I will explain later but first, let me show you how the 7th Seal, 7th Trumpet and 7th Bowl are the same:
7th Seal:
1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 5 ...And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake. 7 The first angel sounded: And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth.
7th Trumpet:
19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.
7th Bowl:
18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.
21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.
Obviously you can see that we have Noises, thunderings, lightening, earthquake and hail in each event. But notice also that in each account the Noises and Thunderings are always listed together in the same sequence. Why? It is the voice of God. Throughout the Bible we have the word "thunder" used to describe the voice of God. In fact these same 5 events are often linked to God or the actions of God.
Exodus 9:23 NKJV And Moses stretched out his rod toward heaven; and the Lord sent thunder and hail, and fire (lightening) darted to the ground. And the Lord rained hail on the land of Egypt.
1 Samuel 2:10 NKJV
The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken in pieces; From heaven He will thunder against them. The Lord will judge the ends of the earth.
1 Samuel 7:10 NKJV
Now as Samuel was offering up the burnt offering, the Philistines drew near to battle against Israel. But the Lord thundered with a loud thunder upon the Philistines that day, and so confused them that they were overcome before Israel.
1 Samuel 12:17 NKJV
Is today not the wheat harvest? I will call to the Lord, and He will send thunder and rain, that you may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which you have done in the sight of the Lord, in asking a king for yourselves."
Job 26:14 NKJV
Indeed these are the mere edges of His ways, And how small a whisper we hear of Him! But the thunder of His power who can understand?"
Job 36:33 NKJV
His thunder declares it, The cattle also, concerning the rising storm.
Job 37:2 NKJV
Hear attentively the thunder of His voice, And the rumbling that comes from His mouth.
Psalm 77:18 NKJV
The voice of Your thunder was in the whirlwind; The lightnings lit up the world; The earth trembled and shook.
Isaiah 29:6 NKJV
You will be punished by the Lord of hosts With thunder and earthquake and great noise, With storm and tempest And the flame of devouring fire.
Revelation 10:When he cried out, seven thunders uttered their voices. 4 Now when the seven thunders uttered their voices, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Seal up the things which the seven thunders uttered, and do not write them."
Notice also in each of the 7 seals, trumpets and bowls that lightening is also always listed with noises and thunderings without any separation these three events are together, noises, thunderings and lightening. In the case of the 7th trumpet only, lightening is listed first. Lightening is used to describe how the Lord returns:
Mat 24:
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
So, can there be any doubt now that the 7th Seal, 7th Trumpet and 7th Bowl are at the end and all previous seals, trumpet and bowls are completed by this time?
Here is further proof and I got goose bumps when I saw this. I have been trying to figure out what 666 means my whole life and it just recently came to me.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.
The 6th Seal, 6th Trumpet and 6th Bowl are all of Satan. 6-6-6. The number of a man means these plagues are earthly - against man and are of the devil. I want everyone to see how Satanic the 6th Seal, trumpet and Bowls are.
There is a break in events describing the 6th seal. I never saw it until yesterday. The Break concludes the 6th seal and announces the beginning of the 7th seal.
6th Seal:
12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.
BREAK - Now the Lord comes
14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
Notice that the stars falling from heaven is Satan and his demons.
6th Trumpet:
13 Then the sixth angel sounded: And I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.
18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed--by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.
6th Bowl:
12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
SEE HOW EVIL AND DEMONIC THE 6-6-6 IS?
See now that the Bowls have to come before the 7th trumpet, at least the first 6 bowls do?
Last edited: