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God told them not to eat pork or any animal that fed on refuse. God sees a connection between the physical and the spiritual, and often used the physical to illustrate the spiritual. If we don't eat pork it is to remind ourselves of the scripture in Php 4:8 Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable--if there is any moral excellence and if there is any praise--dwell on these things.
When our modern day church says there is no connection between the physical and spiritual, or that anything in the physical world is only 'fleshly", meaning having to do with sin, they are not following God principles explained throughout the bible.
When our modern day church says there is no connection between the physical and spiritual, or that anything in the physical world is only 'fleshly", meaning having to do with sin, they are not following God principles explained throughout the bible.
PTSD in connection to circumcisions? 
;
Okaay...
I've been a doctor for more than 3 years, and i have done countless circumcisions. I've never had any patient (or patient's parents for the young ones) follow-up to me with any PTSD complaints and such.
The circumcision that the Bible speaks about is, indeed, focused on the circumcision of one's heart, choosing a life that practices GOD's holiness, instead of sinful living.
The removal of the foreskin, or cutting it up at least to liberate the penile head is for health and hygienic purposes. The smegma needs to be removed (very foul-odored and teeming with bacteria) to avoid infections in that area.
As for a child possibly not "surviving" the stress of a circumcision procedure without having any trauma XD well, in my experience, if the parents themselves don't understand the procedure, and therefore, fail to encourage their sons properly, further aggravating the situation by transmitting their own fears to their sons who are to be circumcised/being circumcised, there lies the problem. The boy will become even more afraid, and will find the procedure as more of a torture activity instead of a health necessity. In this case, i believe the parents need to be educated and informed about the procedure and why it is being done. If they brought their son for circumcision half-heartedly, i refuse to perform the procedure, since i i know that a lot of drama will ensue XD totally unnecessary.
In our country, having a circumcision in males is actually a "rite of passage into manhood". Any boy 8 years old and above who have not been circumcised usually get teased and end up being called gay. It's not a good thing, i know. But it implies that i boy who refuses to get circumcised has no courage at all. To some extent, i agree to that. The pain is actually very tolerable, virtually non-existent during the procedure, even if it's done with the patient awake and using only local anaesthesia, of course. So if a boy couldn't "endure" such a simple, practically painless procedure, i do wonder about the boy's upbringing. Whether he is being spoiled rotten, or being trained to become tougher to, at least, bear with painful or scary experiences one can go through in life.
If the boy has a phobia at the sight of blood, that's a different story. I find that some kids (and even parents) are afraid of seeing blood, which would make the procedure, again, a dramatic event XD but i do my best to re-assure them before, during, and after the procedure. If they profess that they really can't go through with it, i never force them. But when they agreed, i patiently "walk them" through the procedure, as short as it may be. When they see that the bleeding is well controlled after suturing the cut skin, and that it's done fairly quick and painlessly, they all just laugh at their initial panic XD and they proudly call their newly-circumcised boy a young man.
;Okaay...
I've been a doctor for more than 3 years, and i have done countless circumcisions. I've never had any patient (or patient's parents for the young ones) follow-up to me with any PTSD complaints and such.
The circumcision that the Bible speaks about is, indeed, focused on the circumcision of one's heart, choosing a life that practices GOD's holiness, instead of sinful living.
The removal of the foreskin, or cutting it up at least to liberate the penile head is for health and hygienic purposes. The smegma needs to be removed (very foul-odored and teeming with bacteria) to avoid infections in that area.
As for a child possibly not "surviving" the stress of a circumcision procedure without having any trauma XD well, in my experience, if the parents themselves don't understand the procedure, and therefore, fail to encourage their sons properly, further aggravating the situation by transmitting their own fears to their sons who are to be circumcised/being circumcised, there lies the problem. The boy will become even more afraid, and will find the procedure as more of a torture activity instead of a health necessity. In this case, i believe the parents need to be educated and informed about the procedure and why it is being done. If they brought their son for circumcision half-heartedly, i refuse to perform the procedure, since i i know that a lot of drama will ensue XD totally unnecessary.
In our country, having a circumcision in males is actually a "rite of passage into manhood". Any boy 8 years old and above who have not been circumcised usually get teased and end up being called gay. It's not a good thing, i know. But it implies that i boy who refuses to get circumcised has no courage at all. To some extent, i agree to that. The pain is actually very tolerable, virtually non-existent during the procedure, even if it's done with the patient awake and using only local anaesthesia, of course. So if a boy couldn't "endure" such a simple, practically painless procedure, i do wonder about the boy's upbringing. Whether he is being spoiled rotten, or being trained to become tougher to, at least, bear with painful or scary experiences one can go through in life.
If the boy has a phobia at the sight of blood, that's a different story. I find that some kids (and even parents) are afraid of seeing blood, which would make the procedure, again, a dramatic event XD but i do my best to re-assure them before, during, and after the procedure. If they profess that they really can't go through with it, i never force them. But when they agreed, i patiently "walk them" through the procedure, as short as it may be. When they see that the bleeding is well controlled after suturing the cut skin, and that it's done fairly quick and painlessly, they all just laugh at their initial panic XD and they proudly call their newly-circumcised boy a young man.
D
Yeah, definitely a case of tmi. 'Ugly' is a relative term, it's just what you're 'used to,' I guess.
Btw, another interesting 'theological' argument: if God created us the way we are, who are we to make adaptations to His design? Ok, the jews do it for their own reasons, but we're not jews.
Personally I think circumcision is nothing less than mutilation. The 'hygiene argument' is not valid: you can keep your WHOLE body clean if you wish, but most men are just too lazy to bother. Maybe they should just have the other parts of their body they can't keep clean cut off too.
It's much easier to think of all kinds of argument IN FAVOUR of circumcision and justify that practice, than to face the fact that your parents decided to mutilate you as a baby. Funny how infant baptism is a big issue for a lot of christians, while apparently a high percentage of that same group has no problems having their babies mutilated.
Btw, another interesting 'theological' argument: if God created us the way we are, who are we to make adaptations to His design? Ok, the jews do it for their own reasons, but we're not jews.
Personally I think circumcision is nothing less than mutilation. The 'hygiene argument' is not valid: you can keep your WHOLE body clean if you wish, but most men are just too lazy to bother. Maybe they should just have the other parts of their body they can't keep clean cut off too.
It's much easier to think of all kinds of argument IN FAVOUR of circumcision and justify that practice, than to face the fact that your parents decided to mutilate you as a baby. Funny how infant baptism is a big issue for a lot of christians, while apparently a high percentage of that same group has no problems having their babies mutilated.
L
I had it done to my three boys because ,I had no choice,it was medically determined I had to.My son had it the foreskin adhere to the skin and they told me he had to be circumcised.So I just decided to let ,the Dr do it to my other two boys right away rather than go through that again and chance it.
D
PTSD in connection to circumcisions? ;
Okaay...
I've been a doctor for more than 3 years, and i have done countless circumcisions. I've never had any patient (or patient's parents for the young ones) follow-up to me with any PTSD complaints and such.
The circumcision that the Bible speaks about is, indeed, focused on the circumcision of one's heart, choosing a life that practices GOD's holiness, instead of sinful living.
The removal of the foreskin, or cutting it up at least to liberate the penile head is for health and hygienic purposes. The smegma needs to be removed (very foul-odored and teeming with bacteria) to avoid infections in that area.
As for a child possibly not "surviving" the stress of a circumcision procedure without having any trauma XD well, in my experience, if the parents themselves don't understand the procedure, and therefore, fail to encourage their sons properly, further aggravating the situation by transmitting their own fears to their sons who are to be circumcised/being circumcised, there lies the problem. The boy will become even more afraid, and will find the procedure as more of a torture activity instead of a health necessity. In this case, i believe the parents need to be educated and informed about the procedure and why it is being done. If they brought their son for circumcision half-heartedly, i refuse to perform the procedure, since i i know that a lot of drama will ensue XD totally unnecessary.
In our country, having a circumcision in males is actually a "rite of passage into manhood". Any boy 8 years old and above who have not been circumcised usually get teased and end up being called gay. It's not a good thing, i know. But it implies that i boy who refuses to get circumcised has no courage at all. To some extent, i agree to that. The pain is actually very tolerable, virtually non-existent during the procedure, even if it's done with the patient awake and using only local anaesthesia, of course. So if a boy couldn't "endure" such a simple, practically painless procedure, i do wonder about the boy's upbringing. Whether he is being spoiled rotten, or being trained to become tougher to, at least, bear with painful or scary experiences one can go through in life.
If the boy has a phobia at the sight of blood, that's a different story. I find that some kids (and even parents) are afraid of seeing blood, which would make the procedure, again, a dramatic event XD but i do my best to re-assure them before, during, and after the procedure. If they profess that they really can't go through with it, i never force them. But when they agreed, i patiently "walk them" through the procedure, as short as it may be. When they see that the bleeding is well controlled after suturing the cut skin, and that it's done fairly quick and painlessly, they all just laugh at their initial panic XD and they proudly call their newly-circumcised boy a young man.
;Okaay...
I've been a doctor for more than 3 years, and i have done countless circumcisions. I've never had any patient (or patient's parents for the young ones) follow-up to me with any PTSD complaints and such.
The circumcision that the Bible speaks about is, indeed, focused on the circumcision of one's heart, choosing a life that practices GOD's holiness, instead of sinful living.
The removal of the foreskin, or cutting it up at least to liberate the penile head is for health and hygienic purposes. The smegma needs to be removed (very foul-odored and teeming with bacteria) to avoid infections in that area.
As for a child possibly not "surviving" the stress of a circumcision procedure without having any trauma XD well, in my experience, if the parents themselves don't understand the procedure, and therefore, fail to encourage their sons properly, further aggravating the situation by transmitting their own fears to their sons who are to be circumcised/being circumcised, there lies the problem. The boy will become even more afraid, and will find the procedure as more of a torture activity instead of a health necessity. In this case, i believe the parents need to be educated and informed about the procedure and why it is being done. If they brought their son for circumcision half-heartedly, i refuse to perform the procedure, since i i know that a lot of drama will ensue XD totally unnecessary.
In our country, having a circumcision in males is actually a "rite of passage into manhood". Any boy 8 years old and above who have not been circumcised usually get teased and end up being called gay. It's not a good thing, i know. But it implies that i boy who refuses to get circumcised has no courage at all. To some extent, i agree to that. The pain is actually very tolerable, virtually non-existent during the procedure, even if it's done with the patient awake and using only local anaesthesia, of course. So if a boy couldn't "endure" such a simple, practically painless procedure, i do wonder about the boy's upbringing. Whether he is being spoiled rotten, or being trained to become tougher to, at least, bear with painful or scary experiences one can go through in life.
If the boy has a phobia at the sight of blood, that's a different story. I find that some kids (and even parents) are afraid of seeing blood, which would make the procedure, again, a dramatic event XD but i do my best to re-assure them before, during, and after the procedure. If they profess that they really can't go through with it, i never force them. But when they agreed, i patiently "walk them" through the procedure, as short as it may be. When they see that the bleeding is well controlled after suturing the cut skin, and that it's done fairly quick and painlessly, they all just laugh at their initial panic XD and they proudly call their newly-circumcised boy a young man.
As for circumcision being hygienic? All that is need is to pull the foreskin back and wash. It is not hard to do. I have a friend who is not circumcised and he has never had an issue.
D
Oh please! Don't get me started on female circumcision. That is completely barbaric! The chop off the clitoris and labia (both), mutilating the vulva with a razor blade. How cruel is that?? Leaving nothing but a slit and the poor woman can never enjoy sex like God created.
Female circumcision should be outlawed in every country!
L
Some doctors still recommend it to be done.My Dr did for my last pregnancy,I believe he was in favor due to his religion,but I did it because of my first experience of failure with not having it done.Looking back I know they all hurt afterwards that's a really sensitive spot on the body.My son had it done at a year old under general anesthesia,now even the urologist said it would be very painful.He was really cranky after that because he was in pain quite a while until it healed.
M
Well...I am currently on the fence about the situation, leaning more towards the pro-circumcision side. Circumcision doesn't change sensitivity or anything dealing with sexual intercourse.
Some men are cleaner than others, and even though that shouldn't be an issue or is based on the individual I'm sure my kids wouldn't have time or just be lazy about it. (Me and my fiance are very active people. Most of the time when he's working he'll just go to bed without taking a shower and then go back to work 8 hours later)
True there is pain involved but there's pain involved in getting shots and basic surgery.
When I was 3 years old a dog bit me and ripped off half of the skin off my arm and had to get my arm stitched back together by the doctors PULLING the skin from each side together and sewing it up. Sure it hurt, but I didn't cry. It was my mom that cried.
Then when I was ten, I broke my leg and got a hairline fracture. Still hurt like nothing I've ever experienced before but I had to put my foot down on a metal brace thing to get a cast. It hurt but it was necessary.
And then when I was 16 I had to get a birthmark/mole removed that was...ermm....bellow the bellybutton but above the knees...sure the needle felt weird and stung like crazy, but it was cool watching the doctor cut me open and look for cancer underneath. I had stitches for a while but it didn't hurt.
All the situations I was in, although it wasn't forced by my parents or anyone else for any other reason besides that I'm awesome, are all examples of a child getting hurt and dealing with pain during a painful medical procedure.
-----Bottomline, life is full of pain. Suck it up, you ninnies.
As for my perspective as a Christian... I say it's a gray area. Do what you feel is right. Many things in the Bible is about symbolism, as said by our wonderful Christian elder, Redtent, so if your going to circumcise your sons in the name of Jesus...hey more power to you.If Jesus accepts that sort of sacrifice anymore, I wouldn't know...(I'm leaning on "yes")
So when I get a son of my own, I'm going to allow my baby to be circumcised.
Some men are cleaner than others, and even though that shouldn't be an issue or is based on the individual I'm sure my kids wouldn't have time or just be lazy about it. (Me and my fiance are very active people. Most of the time when he's working he'll just go to bed without taking a shower and then go back to work 8 hours later)
True there is pain involved but there's pain involved in getting shots and basic surgery.
When I was 3 years old a dog bit me and ripped off half of the skin off my arm and had to get my arm stitched back together by the doctors PULLING the skin from each side together and sewing it up. Sure it hurt, but I didn't cry. It was my mom that cried.
Then when I was ten, I broke my leg and got a hairline fracture. Still hurt like nothing I've ever experienced before but I had to put my foot down on a metal brace thing to get a cast. It hurt but it was necessary.
And then when I was 16 I had to get a birthmark/mole removed that was...ermm....bellow the bellybutton but above the knees...sure the needle felt weird and stung like crazy, but it was cool watching the doctor cut me open and look for cancer underneath. I had stitches for a while but it didn't hurt.
All the situations I was in, although it wasn't forced by my parents or anyone else for any other reason besides that I'm awesome, are all examples of a child getting hurt and dealing with pain during a painful medical procedure.
-----Bottomline, life is full of pain. Suck it up, you ninnies.
As for my perspective as a Christian... I say it's a gray area. Do what you feel is right. Many things in the Bible is about symbolism, as said by our wonderful Christian elder, Redtent, so if your going to circumcise your sons in the name of Jesus...hey more power to you.If Jesus accepts that sort of sacrifice anymore, I wouldn't know...(I'm leaning on "yes")
So when I get a son of my own, I'm going to allow my baby to be circumcised.
D
So basically what you're trying to say is: if the feels right to the PARENTS, they should do it? Interesting, so if those parents think their baby should be tattooed, for instance, that makes it alright too?
Ofcourse, parents have a big say in theupbringing of their children, they decide a lot FOR them. That shouldn't include the decision to mutilate their babies though.
Ofcourse, parents have a big say in theupbringing of their children, they decide a lot FOR them. That shouldn't include the decision to mutilate their babies though.
M
So basically what you're trying to say is: if the feels right to the PARENTS, they should do it? Interesting, so if those parents think their baby should be tattooed, for instance, that makes it alright too?
Ofcourse, parents have a big say in theupbringing of their children, they decide a lot FOR them. That shouldn't include the decision to mutilate their babies though.
Ofcourse, parents have a big say in theupbringing of their children, they decide a lot FOR them. That shouldn't include the decision to mutilate their babies though.
Interestingly, some people get tattoos and piercings without considering the above statement but when it comes to circumcision they do.
Just a general observation.
I wouldn't say male neonatal circumcision is 'mutilation'. It does not impair normal physiological function of the organ.
Would you say the same thing too about parents who pierce their babies' ears?
Just a general observation.
I wouldn't say male neonatal circumcision is 'mutilation'. It does not impair normal physiological function of the organ.
Would you say the same thing too about parents who pierce their babies' ears?
My son is 8, he was circumcised as a newborn. I do believe circumcising a girl is barbaric and cruel, but for health reasons I did it for my son. My older brother was not circumcised as an infant and for reasons of infection had to be as an adult. I'm glad I did that for my son as an infant. He so far has not suffered from PTSD. I however have and have never been circumcised. So what was my problem then?