Koran

[reject-tech]

As long as you can observe where modern Islam has deviated from the message in their own book, and give the "violent" parts of it the same amount of discretion that you give the "violent" parts of the OT, you might begin to see some synchronicity between it and the bible.

It was Islam who put Mohammad on a pedestal, the same way some of Christianity put Paul or Mary on a pedestal.
I don't see in the writing myself that Mohammad himself had it in his mind to hijack Jesus's fame.
It appears to me in the Koran when Mohammad condones highway robbery, it is as figurative as when God told OT men to spoil cities.
But admittedly, I have not read the whole book.

 

[ThomasLady]

Exactly reject-tech

Both books (Bible and Koran) are full of contradictory directions, contradictions in stories, things that simply do not make logical sense. As a simple example, Jesus is in the line of David through Joseph....but Mary gave birth to Jesus without a biological earthly father?

Hence when I read works like the Koran, I do not judge based on individual sentences and paragraphs, but try to develop an overall understanding of the author and the author's intentions. After all, how many people behave the same every day, never change their opinion, and have a photographic memory? So even if only 1 person wrote a book over many years or decades, it would not be shocking that the book is not consistent in its message. Now add on the variable that many authors contributed, over decades or centuries and you really have to pray for guidance in finding God's messages in such a complex work.

 

[RedTent]

Reject and Thomaslady: when God told OT men to spoil cities, it was to take them from men who could never live eternally, who were wicked, in order to make a safe secure place to live. Those places were places that even killed babies as sacrifice. No one could live there in safety and comfort. Just as the world had become unlivable before the flood because of the way men treated other men, so the world would have gone unless the Lord had worked to establish order.

It is true that Joseph was in the line of David, but so was Mary.

 

[reject-tech]

Reject and Thomaslady: when God told OT men to spoil cities, it was to take them from men who could never live eternally, who were wicked, in order to make a safe secure place to live.

I think the commands were to conquer those cities from within, through brotherly love. Written figuratively as diabolical war stories to test our hearts and wisdom.

 

[ThomasLady]

Red Tent, Luke was pretty clear; he provided the genealogy through Joseph to conclude that Jesus was in the line of David. Don't know where in the Bible the genealogy of Mary is given to conclude the same.

Also, it is weird that the Koran gave the same conclusion as you regarding the destroyed cities and the flood in the section I just read.

 

[posthuman]

God and Jesus are alive in me because I have put in the time to search scores of books and think for hours on end, until I found them, until I understood Them. And I did not understand them because I was told to believe by those in authority; I found Them through the search for Wisdom and Truth

^ this is not the reason that Christ lives in me. it wasn't by my own searching, but my response to His searching. it's not because I have tried to understand, but because understanding was given to me.

like Abraham at the old covenant, I was sleeping while the Lord passed through and sealed the promise. this is maybe semantics to you, but important to me.



I've read a good part of the Koran too, for similar reasons - my work puts me in contact with a lot of people of Arab & Asian descent, and how can I speak intelligently with them without understanding their background? I feel if I want to challenge my friends to read the scripture, it is right that I should do the same. I haven't read all of it, but I was struck by the repeated stories of Abraham making up most of the older texts, and to me an obvious change of tone & content at the time of Mohammed. I think it is important to keep in mind that reading the Koran in light of the Torah, the prophets and the rest of the OT is very different than reading it without a knowledge of these, so also important not to neglect studying the Word.

 

[ThomasLady]

Well there it is. The Koran instructing believers to go to war with nonbelievers in Reparations. This is in contrast to earlier chapters when the Koran says to let nonbelievers be if they want peace, because they will get theirs when their life on Earth ends. Hard to reconcile call to war with the clear acceptance of Jesus as a messenger of God. Clearly Jesus' message was to love your neighbor and enemy.

This shift in the Koran is clearly driven by the ongoing war with local groups, slander of Mohammad by these groups, and assassination plots and attempts. Boy does the Koran also spend alot of time bashing those that say they are believers but then stay safe in their home when a violent battle occurs. And so so much about giving Alms and using financial resources to do God's work. These topics are certainly in the Bible, but I do not remember them being such a focus.

 

[Bowman]

Society often demonizes certain people, cultures, races, etc. I tend to read the books that this bias would tell you not to read. So I, a white Irish person, raised catholic, am reading the Koran. Not as scary as you would think. Basically Mohammed felt that after Abraham and Moses (and the rest of the Apostles) there was Jesus. And after Jesus there was him. Basically he felt that the claim that Jesus and the holy spirit were one with God (trinity), was created by humans, and that even Jesus himself treated God as separate and better than him. Clearly the beginning of the Koran claims women are inferior and really speaks negatively about Jewish people. But nothing much of substance yet (I am up to the chapter called The Table). Waiting to see the evidence for Mohammed being a prophet.

As far as terrorism, as expected, there are some passages that encourage physical punishment of non-believers that do not seek peace with Muslims, but there are also passages encouraging Muslims to ignore and forgive non-belief. A lot of emphasis, as in most religions, for believers to donate money and not run away in the middle of a battle.

I have studied Koranic Arabic for the past 15 years, and the conclusion that I have arrived at is that the Koran has very little in common with islam.

In fact, islam is a poor attempt at interpreting its scripture set - which is decidedly early Arab Christian in nature - revolving around, and being paraphrased from, the Biblical Jesus Christ.

 

[Bowman]

I've read a good part of the Koran too, for similar reasons - my work puts me in contact with a lot of people of Arab & Asian descent, and how can I speak intelligently with them without understanding their background? I feel if I want to challenge my friends to read the scripture, it is right that I should do the same. I haven't read all of it, but I was struck by the repeated stories of Abraham making up most of the older texts, and to me an obvious change of tone & content at the time of Mohammed. I think it is important to keep in mind that reading the Koran in light of the Torah, the prophets and the rest of the OT is very different than reading it without a knowledge of these, so also important not to neglect studying the Word.

If you want to understand the Koran, then fist read the Biblical Book of Revelation, as ~75% of the Koran was paraphrased directly from this Biblical book, alone.

If you want to understand followers of islam, then ignore the Koran just like they do, in favor of man-made traditions...

This is my advice...

 

[Footie03]

I am thinking that with the Quran and the Torah, it's back to "the Law" I am also thinking that if they believe Jesus to be a Prophet and not the Son of God then how do they account for the fulfillment of Scripture. I mean to say.... What about the preponderance of evidence that the Christ has come. Then again, what about the Mormons and their Joseph Smith? Biker Dave

 

[isaria]

I have read Quran and also other islamic scriptures and been to mosques and prayed, eaten halal , covered, etc.
Not for me.
I was brainwashed actually but all individual experiences.
Also was some tried forse me to marriage but I said no for years and years and "it is not for sale".
A homosexual used it to cover up occurred and many things i heard and witnessed.


I will to be a good catholic roman.

When some one says 50/50 but it was 10% for one and barely surviving and they shadow and cover this up and true main and surgery of true main.
Captivation, cages and it is astounding things i heard.

I do like the thought of halal meat because I beleive in animal receiving prayer and a good respectful kill before it is meat to feed on and also a standard of living with energy and space to move and breath and food and water etc.


Have heard people be forsed be muslim and forsed to cover and who been living as slaves, isolated and only getting to meet some people and lies of them told and so supressed some they can not talk and many whom been tortured.
It is difficult to become free.
There are muslims acting as christians when they are not.

 

[isaria]

One woman was kept against her will and forsed to cover and they put on a typ of gimp mask under the burka .
It made her feel ugly and awful and supressed in who she is and then burka on top of that.
It pulls down face.
messed up body corporates and golly.
They were also able to steal beautiful things from them.

Read article of a woman kept captive and raped by group with a man who was also captive.
Some were hung upside down while slaughtered .
They converted to islam or said they did so they might be released.
That was not what freed them but they were free in the end.



There are some things with islam i like. Like washing and cleaning
daily .


It is written often the words "the wicked ones" in translation of quran and of a punishment and hell for these.
They also spoke of several "levels" of heaven you can come to.


I know there has been muslims acting to be christians and they also speak of this in scriptures of a war from with in and sacrifice of a sin for higher cause in there view.
They also speak of mosque and churches taken over from with in and your brother and sister may be a enemy who got close to "keep enemy closer" .


There is also writings of he whom is concidered worse than satan for he fools all and he is described in scriptures to have similar appearance as mohammed only he is not so nice but he has great powers yet he is only a man.
They say Jesus will come and break illusion but that is after his natural death as he was not crucified nor did he suffer in what they believe. They say his "look like" crucified.



If you chat you have to write "pbuy" all time.
Peace be upon you preferbly in arabic and after you mention a prophet by name you have to or should say "peace be upon him".
Mohammed had a wife who fight by his side and one who highly educated as he did not know how to write she wrote the koran based upon what Mohammed told her from his visions.


It is good to be educated about it.
One iman is actually christian in his 9 but he is also iman knowing a lot about islam.

 

[hattiebod]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Please don't be sad for me. God and Jesus are alive in me because I have put in the time to search scores of books and think for hours on end, until I found them, until I understood Them. And I did not understand them because I was told to believe by those in authority; I found Them through the search for Wisdom and Truth

God and Jesus are one. This is as you say, total. The trouble a Muslim may have is in that Jesus is and was a Jew. That Jesus was not a prophet...but is THE SON OF GOD!! Hallelujah!!
God will revel His truth to you as you seek it and it will be a forgiving, understanding, sacrificial truth to ALL people. If the truth he reveals to you is condemning and judgemental, then it is not of him. If it causes you to 'do things' then it is not of Him.Our God is a Good God. He does not call to anger, condemnation and rage.
God Bless you, Hattie, <><

 

[Payback]

Hey I had some really strange experiences with a god like creature it was a bright light that glowed in people or around them is this god or the devil not sure it was horrifying and I'm not sure who to talk with about this . It pretty much describes who god really is and is quiet disturbing . I have seen stuff that I'm sure almost the world has not and now am very confused on who god really is. SO if anyone has some insight that can help out would be great. I no everyone believes GOD and JESUS are the same but if I tell my story of what I seen and how things happened They are two different enties totally. From what I seen everything in the old testament is the truth and the new testament you might as well through it away this group of people that I met use the old testament to harvest souls they littertally destroy people all over the earth your words you have to be very careful what you say in life and what you right they use all this against everyone in society I came across these people the closer and more powerful I became when working in the banking industries . The closer you are to the flow of money the more evil people are around and I watched how these people took over everything and they used the old testament to destroy people drove them nuts . they spyed on people and played head games with there victims . They don't they do write people future . They will put chaois in people lives to get there assets . could be anything from draining the oil from your car to drilling holes in your hot water tanks , your water sprinklers , they get into people computer change all there paper work , contracts you name constantly hanging the person our to dry until they take everything and harvest there soul completely evil. This group really is rasist they are mostly white folk hate east Indians and most of them have martial arts like tae kwon doe. These people are very dangerous and they are everywhere right now the more assets you have the harder they will come to get you to do wrong so they can take the dirt on you to I believe they are Hebrew folks. Anyways they really use the old testament as there tool for destroying people and what I seen is not in any book or movie nothing they just destroy people and take everything . A lot of them were cops they hook up there daughters or sons with the victims then have them killed off in a accident increasing there blood lines and there wealth. All the people that I seen had the largest names in society like smith Anderson Wilson Schmidt Koch Johnson brown so they must be like a illumati group or something. it was pretty horrifying to watch how many people supposly committed suicide when I really new they did not. Some I just spoke to a few days ago they were happy life was great then were drowned or hung themselves. if this stuff is all over the earth people better be good and live a quiet life in last 10 years I have seen this happen 100 times or more. and a bright white spirit has been around now for sometime almost 20 years so i'm not sure who that is or what they are hopping is god and he can help this group has targeted me for years and can not succeed to get me. I have to watch constantly and think ahead as they will screw up all kinds of things in your home your car , at work to bring danger to you and your family. I'm not sure they could be freemasons too anyone else have experieces like this. I am really confused on who to even pray to or what religion after seeing all this I need some help please.

 

[Miss]

Payback, there is a book called The New Age by Tex Mars that might explain to you who these people are, also they are not Christians.

 

[ThomasLady]

I am done with about 75% of an English translation of the Koran. Certainly Mohammad recites the stories of Moses, Abraham and Noah many, many, many times. The Koran is unbelievably repetitive, and in that sense, very clear in its messages. Mohammad communicated that there is only 1 God, that what all people worship is actually the same God, and God sends prophets to all the different groups that have gone astray across the globe, to warn them that they should behave according to the Bible and Koran if they do not want to be thrown into the fire of hell at Judgment Day. Mohammad was the apostle sent to warn Arabs. And yes, he did not feel Jesus was the son of God, and he did not believe the Arabs that said God had daughters. But he does accept Jesus as speaking for God, speaking the Word of God. He was actually a great prophet/apostle for Jewish and Christian teachings and holy writings, apart from the belief that Jesus was God.

 

[ThomasLady]

Here are the main messages of the Koran, repeated over and over:
1) Worshipping more than one God is a big problem, and a sure way to go to hell
2) Going after worldly things is a waste of a life
3) Unbelievers will beg to convert on Judgment Day but it will be too late
4) The Devil tempts unbelievers to ignore the Koran and live to please themselves, as part of his deal to not be destroyed after refusing to honor Man in the Garden of Eden
5) Apostles are human, and never equal to God. Their one goal is to warn a group of people to change their ways or they will be destroyed. Some apostles could perform miracles and some could not, with God making the decision
6) God could make all people believe if He wanted to, so He must not want too. This does not logically make sense since so much effort is put into telling of the punishments against unbelievers on Judgment Day, but if it is not their fault why punish them so much. I think Mohammad is simply trying to maintain the loyalty of the people already believing in him, by making them fearful of the consequences should they join another team/religion.
7) God's existence is supported by all the ways Nature is "designed" to support human life; day/night, animals to provide food, water from rivers and clouds to make food grow. With so little knowledge of the scientific observations we are aware of such as evolution, it certainly must have seemed that the universe was designed by a logical being. Then again, what is logic, what is earthly human thought but neurons firing away? Perhaps our "modern" knowledge becomes too much of a focus and we are missing the big picture.

It is also notable to me, raised a Christian, that while Mohammad notes Jesus as an Apostle of God, notes his resurrection and birth to the virgin Mary, he rarely mentions any of Jesus' words. Much effort is devoted to retellings of the Old Testament, basically to communicate the point that if an Apostle warns you, you better listen or you will go down like the Egyptians did with Moses, or Noah's community did in the flood, or Sodom and Gomorrah did after they did not listen to Lot, and so on. But with Jesus, Mohammad focuses on saying he was not the Son of God. Maybe Mohammad was losing recruits because he could not perform any of the miracles Jesus is reported to have done. That is why in many parts of the Koran, Mohammad emphasizes that he cannot perform miracles, he is just a man that received enlightenment from God in the form of the Koran.

Or maybe since Jesus words in the Scriptures were pacifist, and Mohammad and his people were frequently fighting battles in Medina and Mecca, he could not have his people laying down their arms and turning the other cheek to their enemies. He needed them to fight as if God was telling them to.

 

[ThomasLady]

I finished the Koran. See my previous post for the most common themes. That did not change through the rest of the Koran.

The most surprising thing; how much Mohammad uses the Old Testament to communicate his messages in the Koran. I am not exaggerating when I estimate that he told the story of Moses in Egypt about 30 times, and the story of Noah about 15 times. Story of Lot about 10 times, Jonah about 4 times. There were also some stories told multiple times about places in the Arab region that with a very similar theme to the retellings of the Old Testament stories: prophet warns people that are not acting according to God's instructions, prophet gets saved when majority of people do not listen, and then the unbelievers are killed by an act of God.

Some props to Mohammad:
1) Scientists would agree with Mohammad (and other prophets) that the End of the World will come, when the Earth and sky will be torn asunder and go up in flames. That will happen, likely when the dying Sun expands to engulf the Earth in millions of years. Key question for getting people to care about this and start behaving according to God's rules, is to get them to accept that even if they are dead at this time, their soul or some conscious part of themselves will be resurrected to finally receive their judgment. This is a main logical sticking point, where Mohammad and the prophets in the Bible run into trouble getting recruits.
2) It is unlikely that the God that created the Universe, including humans, saw Jewish people as any different than other people. It makes more sense that this God would have goals for the human race (all peoples) that required them to act a certain way and follow certain rules. God would need to somehow get the message to all people, and he seems to do this through history by selecting Messengers. Why wouldn't he send a Messenger to the Arabs? Mohammad basically spread messages from the New and especially the Old testament to his people, as you would expect the Almighty Infinite God to want.

 

[hattiebod]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Please don't be sad for me. God and Jesus are alive in me because I have put in the time to search scores of books and think for hours on end, until I found them, until I understood Them. And I did not understand them because I was told to believe by those in authority; I found Them through the search for Wisdom and Truth

You have wasted your time...we (Christians, followers of Christ) will be sad for you.Why? because you believe a false doctrine. What Truth do you follow? or all who follow it? all the Muslims in the World?.....Do they follow a path of equality?No. Freedom? No.
God Bless. (& just so we are sure what God i talk about, it's THE Creator God, Father of THE SON Christ Jesus.) The latter Muslims find impossible to talk about...??

 

[T_Laurich]

Thomas remember the Islamic faith is not based off of only the Qur'ran... There are 2 other books which they base their lives off of... They go in depth of Muhammad's life and explain the ways into 'heaven'.

Western Civilization has been deceived into thinking that the Qur'ran is the 'Bible' of the Islamic faith...

Also the world Apostle to my knowledge is reserved for those who have seen Jesus in flesh... Anyone can be a disciple but and apostle is chosen by God...

If you want the full taste of the Islamic religion you can not gain it by reading either... Their religion is passed down verbally since the original text was written in short hand and every word could have up to 30 different translations...

Edit: Also you must read it in its original translation... Any Islamic hearing you are reading it in English would not believe it is the Qur'ran.

Edit #2: The Qur'ran was also the book that didn't work for Muhammad so he started a new campaign and actually revolutionized war...