Koran

Hattiebod, you are expressing the reason I read this book; I mistrust expressions of fear, demonization, etc., by people that appear biased and unknowledgeable.

If you truly believe in the Christian Faith, in the Words of Jesus, you would communicate love for Mohammad. The reason that Jesus said Love your Enemies was not to tell us to fake love, it was because everyone is deserving of love. If we knew all that God knew about our "enemies," we would love them for real. So the man Mohammad, who has been demonized by millions that have never even read his works, wrote a book. None dispute that it was his words. I read it and now I know him better, and I can say I love him with a love discussed frequently by Dr. Martin Luther King, Agape, the love of understanding.

Remember, it is not whether the glass is half full, or half empty. If the glass has water, it is full. And Mohammad definitely had water in his glass.

T. Laurich,
Thank you for the post. As with most faiths, I agree that Islam as it is practiced today likely does not match up with Mohammad's Words as written in the Koran. And as with most things (including the English translation of the original writings of the authors of the Bible) a translation loses some of the gist of the original messages. But reading someone's book, even translated, gives you a feeling for them as a thinking person, at least at one point in their lives. So after reading the Koran, I have a much better feeling for this important figure in history, often referred to by people that don't research and think before they judge.

That said, I don't think it is non-Christian to say that Mohammad used his Apostleship to justify subjugating women and having sex with just about anyone he chose. Chapters of the Koran were clearly written to cover his butt when he broke his own rules regarding which women a man could have sex with.

And the Koran swings from telling believers to go to war with nonbelievers, to telling them to leave them alone. So in the end, passages can be found to justify terrorist actions or to label them as against The teachings of the Koran. On balance, after reading this translation of the Koran, I would say Mohammad would label the 9/11 terrorists as cowards and criminals fated to burn in hell, as do I.

Have you read Sura 9???

I don't understand which faith you have been studying... And also do you not understand that the Qur'ran is not their full religion... But there are 2 other books! And those two other books are not the Bible or Torah....

I suggest you watch this full lecture... This is a factual Islam... And then realize the Qur'ran is not what we think!!!

[video=youtube;t_Qpy0mXg8Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y[/video]

One more question... What event started the Islamic calender? The Birth of Muhammad, the death of Muhammad or when Muhammad led an army???

Christian's (and the world) base our calender off of our most important date in history... When Jesus died on that cross... Because of what he did...

Islamic calender is based when he gathered his army... Why would they base an event such as this as the begging of their calender? Unless they view it as beyond important...

T. Laurich, I think that I did not read the Koran to understand Islam, so much as I wanted to understand Mohammad, as best i could, through his translated Words. If you are saying that Mohammad cannot be found in a translated version of the Koran, or the Koran is not to be followed in Modern Islam, unless it agrees with subsequent Islamic works, I tend to disagree but will defer to experts.

How are you finding Muhammad in a book made to glorify Allah???? That book is not read to find 'Muhammad'... To find Muhammad read the other books...

A person is found in his thoughts and words, just as God is His Word. In fact this is the most important part of a person. Fortunately many people have captured their words in a form that has been transmitted over the centuries.

Why not read his personal autobiography? Through his books we know more about him, than any of the american presidents...

OK T_Laurich, what is it? Obviously I have touched a nerve.

Bad experience with the Koran or Muslims? Feeling the Crusader inside?

You havn't touched a nerve... But you start with the crusades and you will...

Then you have not found Christ's peace.

Anyway, the part of a person that matters, that likely exists beyond this world, can be found among that persons writings on how they determine right or wrong, how they justify their belief in God, or non-belief in God. The Koran was clearly one source of finding Mohammad. Maybe there are better sources but I am satisfied with the Koran. I am now onto another person that I have heard strong opinions about, Adam Smith. I am reading his writings on Moral and Political Philosophy, and already, in just 50 pages, I am getting to know him. As usual, what I have heard in society about him was often wrong or a half-truth.

Thank you for showing the Log in my own eye, I never claimed to have found Christ's peace... I just love the fact you try to insinuate that you are morally above me in this 'argument'... When in fact you destroy your own moral logic multiple times by switching your stance on what your looking for multiple times to back yourself out of a corner... You go from just reading the Qur'ran to searching about the Islamic faith to finding Muhammad... Not only that but you are brought against factual evidence that you are not finding Muhammad by reading the Qur'ran so you say you are satisfied...

Whether you reply or not I do not care, my points have been made and are factually correct... You can say you are onto another person to dissolve the conflict and I applaud you for that...

P.s. I suggest you read the full string of comments before you come to a 'moral' conclusion...

Obviously you care because you keep replying, and expressing negativity. If I cared that much, and knew this was a battle of logic, I could go through the logic, admit when I was mistaken and argue for success when I was correct. But I don't care, and have been honest that I have moved on to another book. But whatever I have said in the past, which I do not think was too different, but may have definitely been somewhat different, I think reading someone's writings on right and wrong, and belief in God is a great way to get to know them as they truly are. The best work in this regard for Mohammad turns out to be the Koran, and by reading a translation of it, I have come to understand him at certain points in his life. For all the if, buts and howevers that might make this statement more logically sound, I will gladly give you that victory, and perhaps some peace of mind. But that is really up to you. I do not wish to take the log out of your eye. It is only a stick anyway.

To suggest that the words written in the Koran are not those of Mohammad would indeed be a revelation. But are you saying this didymos, or are you saying that they were his words, but someone else wrote them down?

As far as reading a translation, I am not going to learn to read the Koran in the first language it was written, any more than I am going to learn to read in Greek or Aramaic because there are those that say the English translation of the Bible misses some of the context and meaning in the original versions. But I think reading English translations of the Bible and Koran can still convey the main messages of their authors.

Can you please show us where anyone named 'Muhammad' recited anything in the Koran?

Don't know what you are asking Bowman. Are you saying that I have misspelled his name, and incorrectly used the word recite? Or are you saying that the Koran does not go over these stories from the Old Testament many, many, many times?

I'm saying that you are making the classic Islamic mistake in thinking that someone named 'Muhammad' had anything at all to do with the Koran.

The term 'Muhammad' was not even a proper name when the Koran was written...