Koran

To suggest that the words written in the Koran are not those of Mohammad would indeed be a revelation. But are you saying this didymos, or are you saying that they were his words, but someone else wrote them down?

As far as reading a translation, I am not going to learn to read the Koran in the first language it was written, any more than I am going to learn to read in Greek or Aramaic because there are those that say the English translation of the Bible misses some of the context and meaning in the original versions. But I think reading English translations of the Bible and Koran can still convey the main messages of their authors.

"Muhammad" existed as a definite and important person in history. He lead the conversion of all of Arabia to the Muslim faith, using the Scriptures and especially the Old Testament to help him accomplish this. Those are facts (well accepted and supported by historical evidence).

Muslims believe that the revelations "Muhammad" was to have received from God, form the verses of the Koran. That is a fact.

Now you are saying that "Muhammad" had nothing at all to do with the Koran.

There certainly is potential, as didymos pointed out, that "Muhammad" did not directly write the Koran, and certainly it could be that the Koran was written by people that heard "Muhammad" speak and wrote down what they recalled.

But, apart from what a Muslim might have to say regarding your opinion, I personally think "Muhammad" had a lot to do with the words that ended up in the Koran.

As far as terrorism, as expected, there are some passages that encourage physical punishment of non-believers that do not seek peace with Muslims, but there are also passages encouraging Muslims to ignore and forgive non-belief. A lot of emphasis, as in most religions, for believers to donate money and not run away in the middle of a battle.

You will soon find out he will claim to be Gabriel the angel...and much more deluted theology. I once read the entire teachings of Buddhism, very interesting but filled with lots of opinions about how life functions. I think Buddha was looking for God in some way...but got caught up with opinions. The morals is similar to most religions at an extent.

There is no evidence for Mohammad being a prophet. He wrote the Qur'an, he testifies about himself. Jesus said "If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid." Thus there were many eyewitness testimonies that wrote the New Testament.

One woman was kept against her will and forsed to cover and they put on a typ of gimp mask under the burka .
It made her feel ugly and awful and supressed in who she is and then burka on top of that.
It pulls down face.
messed up body corporates and golly.
They were also able to steal beautiful things from them.

Read article of a woman kept captive and raped by group with a man who was also captive.
Some were hung upside down while slaughtered .
They converted to islam or said they did so they might be released.
That was not what freed them but they were free in the end.



There are some things with islam i like. Like washing and cleaning
daily .


It is written often the words "the wicked ones" in translation of quran and of a punishment and hell for these.
They also spoke of several "levels" of heaven you can come to.


I know there has been muslims acting to be christians and they also speak of this in scriptures of a war from with in and sacrifice of a sin for higher cause in there view.
They also speak of mosque and churches taken over from with in and your brother and sister may be a enemy who got close to "keep enemy closer" .


There is also writings of he whom is concidered worse than satan for he fools all and he is described in scriptures to have similar appearance as mohammed only he is not so nice but he has great powers yet he is only a man.
They say Jesus will come and break illusion but that is after his natural death as he was not crucified nor did he suffer in what they believe. They say his "look like" crucified.



If you chat you have to write "pbuy" all time.
Peace be upon you preferbly in arabic and after you mention a prophet by name you have to or should say "peace be upon him".
Mohammed had a wife who fight by his side and one who highly educated as he did not know how to write she wrote the koran based upon what Mohammed told her from his visions.


It is good to be educated about it.
One iman is actually christian in his 9 but he is also iman knowing a lot about islam.

I am done with about 75% of an English translation of the Koran. Certainly Mohammad recites the stories of Moses, Abraham and Noah many, many, many times. The Koran is unbelievably repetitive, and in that sense, very clear in its messages. Mohammad communicated that there is only 1 God, that what all people worship is actually the same God, and God sends prophets to all the different groups that have gone astray across the globe, to warn them that they should behave according to the Bible and Koran if they do not want to be thrown into the fire of hell at Judgment Day. Mohammad was the apostle sent to warn Arabs. And yes, he did not feel Jesus was the son of God, and he did not believe the Arabs that said God had daughters. But he does accept Jesus as speaking for God, speaking the Word of God. He was actually a great prophet/apostle for Jewish and Christian teachings and holy writings, apart from the belief that Jesus was God.

Hattiebod, you are expressing the reason I read this book; I mistrust expressions of fear, demonization, etc., by people that appear biased and unknowledgeable.

If you truly believe in the Christian Faith, in the Words of Jesus, you would communicate love for Mohammad. The reason that Jesus said Love your Enemies was not to tell us to fake love, it was because everyone is deserving of love. If we knew all that God knew about our "enemies," we would love them for real. So the man Mohammad, who has been demonized by millions that have never even read his works, wrote a book. None dispute that it was his words. I read it and now I know him better, and I can say I love him with a love discussed frequently by Dr. Martin Luther King, Agape, the love of understanding.

Remember, it is not whether the glass is half full, or half empty. If the glass has water, it is full. And Mohammad definitely had water in his glass.

T. Laurich,
Thank you for the post. As with most faiths, I agree that Islam as it is practiced today likely does not match up with Mohammad's Words as written in the Koran. And as with most things (including the English translation of the original writings of the authors of the Bible) a translation loses some of the gist of the original messages. But reading someone's book, even translated, gives you a feeling for them as a thinking person, at least at one point in their lives. So after reading the Koran, I have a much better feeling for this important figure in history, often referred to by people that don't research and think before they judge.

Then you have not found Christ's peace.

Anyway, the part of a person that matters, that likely exists beyond this world, can be found among that persons writings on how they determine right or wrong, how they justify their belief in God, or non-belief in God. The Koran was clearly one source of finding Mohammad. Maybe there are better sources but I am satisfied with the Koran. I am now onto another person that I have heard strong opinions about, Adam Smith. I am reading his writings on Moral and Political Philosophy, and already, in just 50 pages, I am getting to know him. As usual, what I have heard in society about him was often wrong or a half-truth.

Society often demonizes certain people, cultures, races, etc. I tend to read the books that this bias would tell you not to read. So I, a white Irish person, raised catholic, am reading the Koran. Not as scary as you would think. Basically Mohammed felt that after Abraham and Moses (and the rest of the Apostles) there was Jesus. And after Jesus there was him. Basically he felt that the claim that Jesus and the holy spirit were one with God (trinity), was created by humans, and that even Jesus himself treated God as separate and better than him. Clearly the beginning of the Koran claims women are inferior and really speaks negatively about Jewish people. But nothing much of substance yet (I am up to the chapter called The Table). Waiting to see the evidence for Mohammed being a prophet.

As far as terrorism, as expected, there are some passages that encourage physical punishment of non-believers that do not seek peace with Muslims, but there are also passages encouraging Muslims to ignore and forgive non-belief. A lot of emphasis, as in most religions, for believers to donate money and not run away in the middle of a battle.

So Muhammad is either Jesus Christ, or an invented person? C'mon.

There is much more tangible support (independent references, artifacts, etc.) for Muhammad's existence than for Jesus, and taking into account the available evidence a more unbiased conclusion would be that they both existed; although no pictures or videos are available of either that would prove it to all.

Mamachickadee, do you think that one can get a feel for Muhammad (not Islam) as a person from reading an English translation of the Koran? Perhaps more specifically, do you think Muhammad contributed significantly to the writing of the Koran?

Leonardo, I am a Christian. I am just not afraid to question things and seek the Truth, even if it means turning my views on their head. You can't know everything, so my opinions may often be wrong, but if I keep challenging them, publically or privately, I think I will get closer to the Truth, or Words that approach God.

Yes, the Koran says to go to war with nonbelievers, maybe focusing on Muhammad's local enemies that did not believe he was a prophet. But then again, he does sort of lump in the Jews and Christians as targets, occassionally. What I do not get, as I read an English translation of the Koran, is how the Koran can say this, yet at the same time praise Jesus so much, and testify that Jesus was speaking the Word of God. Jesus' message, unlike much of the Old Testament, is clearly one of peace. We are supposed to love our enemies, and if they attack us, turn the other cheek.

Can someone explain this contradiction in the Koran, hopefully from an educated point of view, rather than a prejudice point of view?

Christ is not coming, a comforter is coming with the knowledge of God, and people will listen because they will be convinced that God is real. And the lion will lie next to the lamb...

Hattiebod,
I don't subscribe to the superficial understanding of God. I hear words like Good News, and His Light and it is not enough. So I search and I think; I put in effort as did many of the first Christians, who were the philosophers and scientists of their day. It was clear to them and me, that Earthly reality (space and time) are further from the underlying true reality than God's heavenly reality. So the importance of anything expressed in time (end of time, evolution, our bodies, planets) is a product of the human mind. It belittles God to assign Him an individual personality with opinions on these subjects. Therefore, who cares if time ends. I am with and a part of God as He truly is, and that doesn't end when time does, just as I existed "before" time was constructed.