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Man cannot override God. God created man subject to vanity so that we would fall into sin which man cannot understand. being created subject to vanity...UNWILLINGLY to boot, is not being created PERFECT like him and the words unwillingly clearly tells you it was not man's choice to be created that way.
Rom 8:20 "For the creature wasmade subject to vanity not willingly, but by reason ofHim Who has subjected thesame in hope"
Rom 8:20 "For the creature wasmade subject to vanity not willingly, but by reason ofHim Who has subjected thesame in hope"
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Quote from JDiggs: (quote from p_rehbein)Since God "predetermined" who would be saved, then they WOULD be saved regardless.........of anything.......
Well, not of "anything" in a completely universal way.
For example, I often am asked the question: "So what if I'm predestined to be saved, but I don't want to be saved?"
There are two answers to this. Most directly the answer is, "You have not been regenerated, given a new heart by God." This will occur on God's time. God will work in the persons heart and give them a new one.(Ezekiel 36:26)
The other answer to that particular question is that there is a misunderstanding of how predestination and regeneration work. In regeneration God changes the persons heart, and you will want to be saved because of his working in your heart, and you will indeed be saved.
END QUOTE
This, brother IS NOT predestination.........predestination in Calvin's teachings is that man HAS BE PREDESTINED to be either SAVED or CONDEMNED.........AND MAN has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT..........that's simply what Calvin taught........and that is predestination.......
It seems that you are offering a "watered down" version of predestination........and not the 5 Point Theology taught by Calvin.......and mixing in a little Grace to make the medicine go down a wee bit better.
According to predestination, man has no choice in the matter, so "what if I don't want to be saved" would never come up would it? Another problem those who are promoting predestination is:
God is a loving God: Really? So basically what predestinationers believe is God picks a whole bunch of people and tells them; "I love you so much that I have condemned you to eternal damnation from the beginning." Is that a reflection of a "loving" God?
God is a just God: Really? How exactly is it "just" for God to condemn an entire group of people to eternal damnation from the beginning without them ever committing a sin? They were predestined to eternal damnation BEFORE THEY were even born, so how could they be guilty of anything? Truly, does that sound "just?"
You know brother, this predestination thing is a pretty good deal IF you are in the group predestined for HEAVEN, ETERNAL LIFE! Not a bad deal at all.
HOWEVER, if you happen to be in THAT OTHER GROUP predestined to eternal damnation.......that ain't all that great of a deal is it? Not in my opinion........
Finally; God IS FAITHFUL TO DO WHAT HE SAYS HE WILL DO...........IF this is true, I refer you to John 3:16)......for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
I have read every translation of Scripture I could google, and I can't find a SINGLE ONE that has a "clause" attached to John 3:16 that says..........."well, except for those predestined from the beginning to eternal damnation......" I can't find that anywhere in any of the translations.......
So, either John 3:16 is TRUTH, or it is a lie...........only way I can see it............I believe it is TRUTH, and WHOSOEVER believeth in Him, WILL NOT perish, but have everlasting life............WHOSOEVER calleth on the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED.
Now, God bless, everyone has the God given right to believe as they wish, I'm just stating what I believe.......
Well, not of "anything" in a completely universal way.
For example, I often am asked the question: "So what if I'm predestined to be saved, but I don't want to be saved?"
There are two answers to this. Most directly the answer is, "You have not been regenerated, given a new heart by God." This will occur on God's time. God will work in the persons heart and give them a new one.(Ezekiel 36:26)
The other answer to that particular question is that there is a misunderstanding of how predestination and regeneration work. In regeneration God changes the persons heart, and you will want to be saved because of his working in your heart, and you will indeed be saved.
END QUOTE
This, brother IS NOT predestination.........predestination in Calvin's teachings is that man HAS BE PREDESTINED to be either SAVED or CONDEMNED.........AND MAN has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT..........that's simply what Calvin taught........and that is predestination.......
It seems that you are offering a "watered down" version of predestination........and not the 5 Point Theology taught by Calvin.......and mixing in a little Grace to make the medicine go down a wee bit better.
According to predestination, man has no choice in the matter, so "what if I don't want to be saved" would never come up would it? Another problem those who are promoting predestination is:
God is a loving God: Really? So basically what predestinationers believe is God picks a whole bunch of people and tells them; "I love you so much that I have condemned you to eternal damnation from the beginning." Is that a reflection of a "loving" God?
God is a just God: Really? How exactly is it "just" for God to condemn an entire group of people to eternal damnation from the beginning without them ever committing a sin? They were predestined to eternal damnation BEFORE THEY were even born, so how could they be guilty of anything? Truly, does that sound "just?"
You know brother, this predestination thing is a pretty good deal IF you are in the group predestined for HEAVEN, ETERNAL LIFE! Not a bad deal at all.
HOWEVER, if you happen to be in THAT OTHER GROUP predestined to eternal damnation.......that ain't all that great of a deal is it? Not in my opinion........
Finally; God IS FAITHFUL TO DO WHAT HE SAYS HE WILL DO...........IF this is true, I refer you to John 3:16)......for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
I have read every translation of Scripture I could google, and I can't find a SINGLE ONE that has a "clause" attached to John 3:16 that says..........."well, except for those predestined from the beginning to eternal damnation......" I can't find that anywhere in any of the translations.......
So, either John 3:16 is TRUTH, or it is a lie...........only way I can see it............I believe it is TRUTH, and WHOSOEVER believeth in Him, WILL NOT perish, but have everlasting life............WHOSOEVER calleth on the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED.
Now, God bless, everyone has the God given right to believe as they wish, I'm just stating what I believe.......
[excerpt from article] FOUND HERE:
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG....wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_(Calvinism)
The doctrine of predestination in Calvinism deals with the question of the control God exercises over the world. In the words of the Westminster Confession of Faith, God "freely and unchangeably ordained whatsoever comes to pass."[SUP][1][/SUP] The second use of the word "predestination" applies this to the salvation, and refers to the belief that God appointed the eternal destiny of some to salvation by grace, while leaving the remainder to receive eternal damnation for all their sins, even their original sin. The former is called "unconditional election", and the latter "reprobation". In Calvinism, people are predestined and effectually called in due time (regenerated/born again) to faith by God.
just FYI, so everyone understands the "theological ideology" we are discussing.......
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG....wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_(Calvinism)
The doctrine of predestination in Calvinism deals with the question of the control God exercises over the world. In the words of the Westminster Confession of Faith, God "freely and unchangeably ordained whatsoever comes to pass."[SUP][1][/SUP] The second use of the word "predestination" applies this to the salvation, and refers to the belief that God appointed the eternal destiny of some to salvation by grace, while leaving the remainder to receive eternal damnation for all their sins, even their original sin. The former is called "unconditional election", and the latter "reprobation". In Calvinism, people are predestined and effectually called in due time (regenerated/born again) to faith by God.
just FYI, so everyone understands the "theological ideology" we are discussing.......
J
You edited it after I had posted.
Also, please pay attention to the verses fore and aft.
Romans 8
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope [SUP]21 [/SUP]that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? [SUP]25 [/SUP]But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
The passage isn't talking about Adam and Even being created with a sinful nature, it's talking about CREATION, that is the totality of what God has created being now under the curse of sin. Read Genesis chapter three.
Also, please pay attention to the verses fore and aft.
Romans 8
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope [SUP]21 [/SUP]that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? [SUP]25 [/SUP]But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
The passage isn't talking about Adam and Even being created with a sinful nature, it's talking about CREATION, that is the totality of what God has created being now under the curse of sin. Read Genesis chapter three.
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J
Man doesn't himself, that's the part that man has nothing to do with. God regenerates, not man. That doesn't mean man never makes decisions.
God has determined before hand the eternal destiny of every one.
Human choices are derivitive of Gods choices. Meaning, you chose to put on a shirt today, most ultimately because God determined that is the shirt you will wear. This does not negate the fact that you chose a shirt. The problem a lot of people have with understanding this is that they simply don't like it, and want to try and muddy it as much as they can, and they create strawman versions to attack.
Maybe if someone else explains it, you'll listen.
[video=youtube;wRGMp0md5CE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRGMp0md5CE[/video]
No water at all.
No, not in a legitimate fashion. Only if the person is not yet regenerate (meaning they will be saved, but not at this moment in time, maybe in a year or whenver it is) would such a question occur legitimately. That is what I was trying to explain. It just apparently isn't enough for you, to have an explanation that doesn't fit what you wish you heard.
Strawmen are the biggest problem we deal with.
Absolutely. We don't get to define it, God does.
IF God threw every single person in hell with not sending Jesus to the Cross, would he be any less loving?
Absolutely. We don't get to define it, God does.
Maybe you should go to scripture. See what it says.
Do you believe in Original sin? Do you believe we inherited a sinful nature, the guilt of adam and eve?
[quoteo] Truly, does that sound "just?"[/quote]
If god says it is, it is. Unless you think God is wrong of course. Do you?
"Pretty good deal".... do you even understand grace? Do you even understand what happened at the cross? It's not a "pretty good deal" because that trivializes the whole matter.
The man damned to hell are so evil, that if God opened up the gates of hell and told them they could get out if they just bowed to him, they would slam the gates closed and stay in hell.
Let's have an English lesson.
The word whosoever, is the same as the word whoever.
Now, in John 3:16 it says...
John 3:16(ESV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“For God so loved the world,[SUP][a][/SUP] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
It says whoever believes, the whoever, is the believers, it is not any single one person in a completely universal term. It is not saying whoever unbelieves, it says whoever believes. You're taking a word and isolating it from its text and trying to create in it an entirely different verse.
Garbage eisegesis addressed above.
Amen, whosoever believeth. The ones that believeth are those that God has predestined.
I would have included that tagline to, if it was what I believe but not what scripture teaches. Next time try exegesis instead of eisegesis.
God has determined before hand the eternal destiny of every one.
Human choices are derivitive of Gods choices. Meaning, you chose to put on a shirt today, most ultimately because God determined that is the shirt you will wear. This does not negate the fact that you chose a shirt. The problem a lot of people have with understanding this is that they simply don't like it, and want to try and muddy it as much as they can, and they create strawman versions to attack.
Maybe if someone else explains it, you'll listen.
[video=youtube;wRGMp0md5CE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRGMp0md5CE[/video]
No water at all.
No, not in a legitimate fashion. Only if the person is not yet regenerate (meaning they will be saved, but not at this moment in time, maybe in a year or whenver it is) would such a question occur legitimately. That is what I was trying to explain. It just apparently isn't enough for you, to have an explanation that doesn't fit what you wish you heard.
Strawmen are the biggest problem we deal with.
Absolutely. We don't get to define it, God does.
IF God threw every single person in hell with not sending Jesus to the Cross, would he be any less loving?
Absolutely. We don't get to define it, God does.
Maybe you should go to scripture. See what it says.
Do you believe in Original sin? Do you believe we inherited a sinful nature, the guilt of adam and eve?
[quoteo] Truly, does that sound "just?"[/quote]
If god says it is, it is. Unless you think God is wrong of course. Do you?
"Pretty good deal".... do you even understand grace? Do you even understand what happened at the cross? It's not a "pretty good deal" because that trivializes the whole matter.
The man damned to hell are so evil, that if God opened up the gates of hell and told them they could get out if they just bowed to him, they would slam the gates closed and stay in hell.
Let's have an English lesson.
The word whosoever, is the same as the word whoever.
Now, in John 3:16 it says...
John 3:16(ESV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“For God so loved the world,[SUP][a][/SUP] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
It says whoever believes, the whoever, is the believers, it is not any single one person in a completely universal term. It is not saying whoever unbelieves, it says whoever believes. You're taking a word and isolating it from its text and trying to create in it an entirely different verse.
Garbage eisegesis addressed above.
Amen, whosoever believeth. The ones that believeth are those that God has predestined.
I would have included that tagline to, if it was what I believe but not what scripture teaches. Next time try exegesis instead of eisegesis.
L
Texascowgirl, are you trying to hold God responsible for all evil? If so, you need to read the book of Job.
This thread is not about whether or not God can be held responsible for evil, because the Bible states that He CANNOT.
The OP was asking for a verse or theology that HELPS synergize God's control and human responsibility.
This thread is not about whether or not God can be held responsible for evil, because the Bible states that He CANNOT.
The OP was asking for a verse or theology that HELPS synergize God's control and human responsibility.
QUOTE:
Man doesn't himself, that's the part that man has nothing to do with. God regenerates, not man. That doesn't mean man never makes decisions.
God has determined before hand the eternal destiny of every one.
Human choices are derivitive of Gods choices. Meaning, you chose to put on a shirt today, most ultimately because God determined that is the shirt you will wear. This does not negate the fact that you chose a shirt. The problem a lot of people have with understanding this is that they simply don't like it, and want to try and muddy it as much as they can, and they create strawman versions to attack.
END QUOTE
You can not honestly believe this, What has been predetermined by God to happen NEGATES any choice by man…..it is not a choice, it is a programed/predetermined response, just like a robot.......speaking of “strawman versions”
J
QUOTE
Strawmen are the biggest problem we deal with.
END QUOTE
Finally something we agree on…….they do tend to be tiring
QUOTE
IF God threw every single person in hell with not sending Jesus to the Cross, would he be any less loving?
END QUOTE
Another strawman dodge eh? How is it possible that someone would not understand that by sending His only begotten Son…..God provided ALL WHO WOULD BELIEVE a pathway to eternal life? Thatis an act of a God of love…….
QUOTE
Maybe you should go to scripture. See what it says.
END QUOTE
Another strawman dodge………I have, and it says God wants all man to be saved, and He provided a salvation plan to accomplish this…..and WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH will be saved, the choice is man’s..those who choose to deny Christ are reaping what they sow……….the judgment of unbelief.
QUOTE
"Pretty good deal".... do you even understand grace? Do you even understand what happened at the cross? It's not a"pretty good deal" because that trivializes the whole matter.
END QUOTE
Why yes, I do understand Grace, funny, I was wondering ifyou did….predestination negates Grace…...and trivializes Christ's work on the cross...…for if all has been predetermined, Grace, and the death of Christ is of no value.
What kind of strawman mumbo jumbo is the “English lesson?” Seriously……whosoever, whoever……..is STILLSPEAKING of all that CHOOSE TO BELIEVE……..not in keeping with predestination WHATSOEVER! (uh, er, better look up that one to…….)
FINAL QUOTE
I would have included that tagline to, if it was what I believe but not what scripture teaches. Next time try exegesis instead ofeisegesis.
END QUOTE
That about sums up the elitist vision of Calvinism……..they are the ONLY one’s with perfect understanding, everyone else hasn’t a clue…….
One clear thing is that you contradict yourself comment after comment, and don’t even realize you are doing it…and this is clear in your opening three stanzas ….anyway……….my allergies are acting up, see………I’m allergic to straw/hay ‘n’ such……..so…….
[I have read almost identical language/comments on another Web Site, and oddly enough that poster’s name was Jimmy as well………….he was “especially”fond of the “strawman” put down, might say it was his “tag.”]
So, continue on with your misunderstanding of God, Grace, Jesus Christ, Salvation.....well pretty much all of it........
Man doesn't himself, that's the part that man has nothing to do with. God regenerates, not man. That doesn't mean man never makes decisions.
God has determined before hand the eternal destiny of every one.
Human choices are derivitive of Gods choices. Meaning, you chose to put on a shirt today, most ultimately because God determined that is the shirt you will wear. This does not negate the fact that you chose a shirt. The problem a lot of people have with understanding this is that they simply don't like it, and want to try and muddy it as much as they can, and they create strawman versions to attack.
END QUOTE
You can not honestly believe this, What has been predetermined by God to happen NEGATES any choice by man…..it is not a choice, it is a programed/predetermined response, just like a robot.......speaking of “strawman versions”
J
QUOTE
Strawmen are the biggest problem we deal with.
END QUOTE
Finally something we agree on…….they do tend to be tiring
QUOTE
IF God threw every single person in hell with not sending Jesus to the Cross, would he be any less loving?
END QUOTE
Another strawman dodge eh? How is it possible that someone would not understand that by sending His only begotten Son…..God provided ALL WHO WOULD BELIEVE a pathway to eternal life? Thatis an act of a God of love…….
QUOTE
Maybe you should go to scripture. See what it says.
END QUOTE
Another strawman dodge………I have, and it says God wants all man to be saved, and He provided a salvation plan to accomplish this…..and WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH will be saved, the choice is man’s..those who choose to deny Christ are reaping what they sow……….the judgment of unbelief.
QUOTE
"Pretty good deal".... do you even understand grace? Do you even understand what happened at the cross? It's not a"pretty good deal" because that trivializes the whole matter.
END QUOTE
Why yes, I do understand Grace, funny, I was wondering ifyou did….predestination negates Grace…...and trivializes Christ's work on the cross...…for if all has been predetermined, Grace, and the death of Christ is of no value.
What kind of strawman mumbo jumbo is the “English lesson?” Seriously……whosoever, whoever……..is STILLSPEAKING of all that CHOOSE TO BELIEVE……..not in keeping with predestination WHATSOEVER! (uh, er, better look up that one to…….)
FINAL QUOTE
I would have included that tagline to, if it was what I believe but not what scripture teaches. Next time try exegesis instead ofeisegesis.
END QUOTE
That about sums up the elitist vision of Calvinism……..they are the ONLY one’s with perfect understanding, everyone else hasn’t a clue…….
One clear thing is that you contradict yourself comment after comment, and don’t even realize you are doing it…and this is clear in your opening three stanzas ….anyway……….my allergies are acting up, see………I’m allergic to straw/hay ‘n’ such……..so…….
[I have read almost identical language/comments on another Web Site, and oddly enough that poster’s name was Jimmy as well………….he was “especially”fond of the “strawman” put down, might say it was his “tag.”]
So, continue on with your misunderstanding of God, Grace, Jesus Christ, Salvation.....well pretty much all of it........
We do have free will to either believe God or not. It is all written as to the love God has for us all through Christ
[h=3]Colossians 1:22[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Either one believes the above verse or they do not, and go about life creating their own righteousness, that is never perfect
[h=3]Colossians 1:22[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Either one believes the above verse or they do not, and go about life creating their own righteousness, that is never perfect
If god says it is, it is. Unless you think God is wrong of course. Do you?
"Pretty good deal".... do you even understand grace? Do you even understand what happened at the cross? It's not a "pretty good deal" because that trivializes the whole matter.
The man damned to hell are so evil, that if God opened up the gates of hell and told them they could get out if they just bowed to him, they would slam the gates closed and stay in hell.
Let's have an English lesson.
The word whosoever, is the same as the word whoever.
View attachment 57510
View attachment 57511
Now, in John 3:16 it says...
John 3:16(ESV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“For God so loved the world,[SUP][a][/SUP] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
It says whoever believes, the whoever, is the believers, it is not any single one person in a completely universal term. It is not saying whoever unbelieves, it says whoever believes. You're taking a word and isolating it from its text and trying to create in it an entirely different verse.
Garbage eisegesis addressed above.
Amen, whosoever believeth. The ones that believeth are those that God has predestined.
I would have included that tagline to, if it was what I believe but not what scripture teaches. Next time try exegesis instead of eisegesis.[/QUOTE]
I just wanted to repost the Video - did you watch it?
"Pretty good deal".... do you even understand grace? Do you even understand what happened at the cross? It's not a "pretty good deal" because that trivializes the whole matter.
The man damned to hell are so evil, that if God opened up the gates of hell and told them they could get out if they just bowed to him, they would slam the gates closed and stay in hell.
Let's have an English lesson.
The word whosoever, is the same as the word whoever.
View attachment 57510
View attachment 57511
Now, in John 3:16 it says...
John 3:16(ESV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“For God so loved the world,[SUP][a][/SUP] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
It says whoever believes, the whoever, is the believers, it is not any single one person in a completely universal term. It is not saying whoever unbelieves, it says whoever believes. You're taking a word and isolating it from its text and trying to create in it an entirely different verse.
Garbage eisegesis addressed above.
Amen, whosoever believeth. The ones that believeth are those that God has predestined.
I would have included that tagline to, if it was what I believe but not what scripture teaches. Next time try exegesis instead of eisegesis.[/QUOTE]
I just wanted to repost the Video - did you watch it?
Are you in doubt? What do you know in your heart? God is, It matters not which way one slices, dices, and or cubes this fact.
God is, and Loves us all, no matter, proven to us through Son Christ.
Christ is perfect yes? Then why did he go to the cross? Was it for him or us God's creation? Was there ever a need for Christ to suffer the cross for himself? So why did he do it? had to be for us, leaving only one thing, being is to whether we believe God or not in God's doings, not man's
Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace
Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Maybe it is time to respond in thankfulness and praises to Father through Christ? No matter what others say and think.
As King David did
Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
All by and through Faith (Belief) in Christ's coming before the cross and now back at the cross, is where we all are viewing it from, and by Christ we are doing what Psalms 100:4 states. Those that believe, and stop second guessing
God is, and Loves us all, no matter, proven to us through Son Christ.
Christ is perfect yes? Then why did he go to the cross? Was it for him or us God's creation? Was there ever a need for Christ to suffer the cross for himself? So why did he do it? had to be for us, leaving only one thing, being is to whether we believe God or not in God's doings, not man's
Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace
Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Maybe it is time to respond in thankfulness and praises to Father through Christ? No matter what others say and think.
As King David did
Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
All by and through Faith (Belief) in Christ's coming before the cross and now back at the cross, is where we all are viewing it from, and by Christ we are doing what Psalms 100:4 states. Those that believe, and stop second guessing