This, brother IS NOT predestination.........predestination in Calvin's teachings is that man HAS BE PREDESTINED to be either SAVED or CONDEMNED.........AND MAN has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT..........that's simply what Calvin taught........and that is predestination.......
Man doesn't himself, that's the part that man has nothing to do with. God regenerates, not man. That doesn't mean man never makes decisions.
God has determined before hand the eternal destiny of every one.
Human choices are derivitive of Gods choices. Meaning, you chose to put on a shirt today, most ultimately because God determined that is the shirt you will wear. This does not negate the fact that you chose a shirt. The problem a lot of people have with understanding this is that they simply don't like it, and want to try and muddy it as much as they can, and they create strawman versions to attack.
Maybe if someone else explains it, you'll listen.
[video=youtube;wRGMp0md5CE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRGMp0md5CE[/video]
It seems that you are offering a "watered down" version of predestination........and not the 5 Point Theology taught by Calvin.......and mixing in a little Grace to make the medicine go down a wee bit better.
No water at all.
According to predestination, man has no choice in the matter, so "what if I don't want to be saved" would never come up would it?
No, not in a legitimate fashion. Only if the person is not yet regenerate (meaning they will be saved, but not at this moment in time, maybe in a year or whenver it is) would such a question occur legitimately. That is what I was trying to explain. It just apparently isn't enough for you, to have an explanation that doesn't fit what you wish you heard.
Another problem those who are promoting predestination is:
Strawmen are the biggest problem we deal with.
God is a loving God: Really?
Absolutely. We don't get to define it, God does.
So basically what predestinationers believe is God picks a whole bunch of people and tells them; "I love you so much that I have condemned you to eternal damnation from the beginning." Is that a reflection of a "loving" God?
IF God threw every single person in hell with not sending Jesus to the Cross, would he be any less loving?
God is a just God: Really?
Absolutely. We don't get to define it, God does.
How exactly is it "just" for God to condemn an entire group of people to eternal damnation from the beginning without them ever committing a sin?
Maybe you should go to scripture. See what it says.
They were predestined to eternal damnation BEFORE THEY were even born, so how could they be guilty of anything?
Do you believe in Original sin? Do you believe we inherited a sinful nature, the guilt of adam and eve?
[quoteo] Truly, does that sound "just?"[/quote]
If god says it is, it is. Unless you think God is wrong of course. Do you?
You know brother, this predestination thing is a pretty good deal IF you are in the group predestined for HEAVEN, ETERNAL LIFE! Not a bad deal at all.
"Pretty good deal".... do you even understand grace? Do you even understand what happened at the cross? It's not a "pretty good deal" because that trivializes the whole matter.
HOWEVER, if you happen to be in THAT OTHER GROUP predestined to eternal damnation.......that ain't all that great of a deal is it? Not in my opinion........
The man damned to hell are so evil, that if God opened up the gates of hell and told them they could get out if they just bowed to him, they would slam the gates closed and stay in hell.
Finally; God IS FAITHFUL TO DO WHAT HE SAYS HE WILL DO...........IF this is true, I refer you to John 3:16)......for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
Let's have an English lesson.
The word
whosoever, is the same as the word
whoever.
Now, in John 3:16 it says...
John 3:16(ESV)
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]“For God so loved the world,[SUP]
[a][/SUP] that he gave his only Son, that
whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
It says whoever believes, the whoever, is the believers, it is not any single one person in a completely universal term. It is not saying whoever unbelieves, it says whoever believes. You're taking a word and isolating it from its text and trying to create in it an entirely different verse.
I have read every translation of Scripture I could google, and I can't find a SINGLE ONE that has a "clause" attached to John 3:16 that says..........."well, except for those predestined from the beginning to eternal damnation......" I can't find that anywhere in any of the translations.......
Garbage eisegesis addressed above.
So, either John 3:16 is TRUTH, or it is a lie...........only way I can see it............I believe it is TRUTH, and WHOSOEVER believeth in Him, WILL NOT perish, but have everlasting life............WHOSOEVER calleth on the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED.
Amen, whosoever believeth. The ones that believeth are those that God has predestined.
Now, God bless, everyone has the God given right to believe as they wish, I'm just stating what I believe.......
I would have included that tagline to, if it was what I believe but not what scripture teaches. Next time try exegesis instead of eisegesis.