Attack of the seventh day adventists

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Aug 31, 2013
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Mathematically,

2>1

Does that mean 1 is insignificant? That 1 doesn't matter?
asparagus is not horse raddish, doesthat mean you can't eat either of them?

STOP IT, No one is so stupid to let you out of this with such silly posturing.

YOU POSTED A COMMENT JESUS IS > THAN PAUL TO MAKE A POINT WHEN JOSH POSTED A PAULINIAN VERSE.

There is only TWO possible conclusions from that.

ONE you posted it to prove a point, if so how is the point NOT saying JESUS overrides Paul's verse so you winthe point there...?

OR....

That you just totally lost your ever loving mind, didn't have your glasses on, couldn't find it in the carpet, and just posted a random verse that had NOTHING to do to connect with the chat. EITHER WAY, you aren't looking to hot.

Did you go to school for this act? Or does it come natural?
 
Aug 31, 2013
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Show me the post, or posts where I said or showed Paul is wrong. Then please also show all of the posts where I've said that Paul is correct, and NOT wrong.

stop it.

the argument has been made.

Either you can answer it or you can not.

You can NOT or else you WOULD, and you would stop trying to reframe the question where you might have a pedantic chance at it.

Go away matt. Politicians are professional liars. At least they make it entertaining and worth your while to listen too. Someonejust scrambling to save face is repugnant.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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What question is it that you want me to answer?
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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asparagus is not horse raddish, doesthat mean you can't eat either of them?

STOP IT, No one is so stupid to let you out of this with such silly posturing.

YOU POSTED A COMMENT JESUS IS > THAN PAUL TO MAKE A POINT WHEN JOSH POSTED A PAULINIAN VERSE.

There is only TWO possible conclusions from that.

ONE you posted it to prove a point, if so how is the point NOT saying JESUS overrides Paul's verse so you winthe point there...?

OR....

That you just totally lost your ever loving mind, didn't have your glasses on, couldn't find it in the carpet, and just posted a random verse that had NOTHING to do to connect with the chat. EITHER WAY, you aren't looking to hot.

Did you go to school for this act? Or does it come natural?
Sorry, Just found your original question......

Jesus is God and Paul is a man. He is not God. Therefore, Jesus is more powerful and more wise that Paul. Paul preached the Gospel. Jesus IS the gospel.

When I made my comment to Josh, it was based off of many pages of conversation between He and I were I was wanting Him to not just use Paul's words to discuss the Torah, but to include Jesus' words. He rarely did so. So, his primary verse to end the discussion was a verse from Paul. The verse I chose was from Jesus, which was my request of Josh the entire time.

I fully recognize that every single one of Paul's verses are perfectly in line with Jesus'. There is no error in any of Paul's verses. But when it comes to who the original source of the truth is, it's Jesus. I believe Jesus said we should follow the Torah. So I also believe every one of Paul's verses support that same view. A verse from Paul that implies that we as Christians aren't to follow the Torah carries less truth that Jesus' verse where He said Christians should follow the Torah.

Is that helping you understand any better?
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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I'm off to church now, and our Yom Kippur service. Tannar, I would ask that you take some time to pray about the things I've said and see if I've made myself any clearer. It doesn't appear that I've been able to convince you thus far. If that's the case, it's OK. Hopefully, the Holy Spirit will show that I don't believe Paul is wrong, and that I believe everything he said is accurate and powerful, and that it does line up 100% with everything Jesus said.

Have a great afternoon you and everyone else. I'll be back later tonight.

Shalom,
Matt
 
D

DragonSlayer

Guest
There really are not that many legalists out there. They just can't accept the grace of God and heap obsolete rules on people.
Keeping the Sabbath is not an " obsolete rule ". It's an eternal rule. And it was not created in Mosaic times, it was created the seventh day of Creation, so it's a universal and eternal rule ! Like it or not !
 
Sep 6, 2013
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Keeping the Sabbath is not an " obsolete rule ". It's an eternal rule.
No, it's not.

"But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."
-Acts 21:25

"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."
Colossians 2:16-17

"One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks."
-Romans 14:5-6
 
D

DragonSlayer

Guest
Rick, I tend to disagree with you that keeping the Sabbath is a harmless endeavor.



This is actually a serious sin. If a numb skull keeps even a single part of the Mosaic law (i.e. circumcision, keeping the Sabbath, abstaining from pork, etc.), he might be forfeiting his very salvation in Christ. That is most serious!
It's also written : " For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. "
1 John 5:3 ( KJV )
That means the commandments are not just " obsolete rules " to follow !
The commandments also express the true nature of God.
Hence, if you really love the true nature of God, you also love His commandments.
If you don't love His commandments, then you don't love the true nature of God.
For His commandments express His true eternal nature !
And if you love His commandments, you keep them !
All of them, including Sabbath! For they are not grievous !
 
Sep 6, 2013
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The Sabbath is not part of God's commandments to Christians.
 
Sep 6, 2013
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Hi childofgod87,

Probably like many here, I know quite a few Adventists. They are a mixed bunch, varying from the legalists who hang on every teaching of E,G White, to non-legalists who work Sabbaths, etc.

One of the legalistic Adventists I've encountered claims that there is no salvation for anyone who does not keep the law/10 commandments. This Adventist, like all the others I know, fail to keep the law/10 commandments.

To "keep" the commandments means to obey them perfectly. Just one offense makes you guilty of all the law, James 2:10. Anyone who knows Adventists, knows that they do not "keep" the law.




I agree with Rom 6:2. How shall we that are died to sin live in it any longer?

Only past sin was dealt with at the cross, Rom 3:25.
After that there is no more subsequent sin that can be charged against a Christian. God sees Christ in us and in him there is no sin (1John 3:6). In Christ a christian cannot be charged with sin.

Christians cannot be charged with the sin of transgression of the law as we're not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 4:24, Gal 5:18, 1tim 1:9.

Christians cannot be charged with the sin of unrighteousness (1John 5:17) as our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing (even sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

1Pet 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh (crucified), arm yourselves likewise with the same mind (our old man crucified with him, Rom 6:6): for he that hath suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) hath ceased from sin

1John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed (Christ) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So why are Adventists still sinning?

Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor/Sinner

Adventists can be charged with sin/transgression of the law (1John 3:4), because they bring themselves under the law to judge righteousness by works of the law. Whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19. Hence we see that Adventists, being under the law, can be charged with sin if the do not obey it perfectly. Adventists have made themselves a transgressor/sinner.




What you say here applies to Adventists as they are under the law, and whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.



Jesus set us free from sin, John 8:36, Rom 6:7.
As I showed in scripture above, Christians have "ceased from sin", 1Pet 4:1, "cannot sin" 1John 3:9.
Past sin was remitted on the cross (Rom 3:25) and after that there is no more subsequent sin.

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing (even sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth


What are his commandments that show we love him?1John 3:22,23
we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.



Adventist legalism is disobedience.
We cannot mix grace with works of the law.
Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Adventists and their like follow a lukewarm mix of grace with works of the law. Such lukewarm attitudes are disobedience and will result in such being spewed out of God's mouth, Rev 3:15,16. God calls upon the lukewarm to repent, Rev 3:19.
Faith without works is dead

And I'm not the one who says we can keep the commandments Jesus seemed to say the people he was coming for would.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

I can say I love God as much as I want but if I do everything contrary to that then it's a little hard to believe wouldn't you say.
 
Aug 31, 2013
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Sorry, Just found your original question......

Jesus is God and Paul is a man. He is not God. Therefore, Jesus is more powerful and more wise that Paul. Paul preached the Gospel. Jesus IS the gospel.

When I made my comment to Josh, it was based off of many pages of conversation between He and I were I was wanting Him to not just use Paul's words to discuss the Torah, but to include Jesus' words. He rarely did so. So, his primary verse to end the discussion was a verse from Paul. The verse I chose was from Jesus, which was my request of Josh the entire time.

I fully recognize that every single one of Paul's verses are perfectly in line with Jesus'. There is no error in any of Paul's verses. But when it comes to who the original source of the truth is, it's Jesus. I believe Jesus said we should follow the Torah. So I also believe every one of Paul's verses support that same view. A verse from Paul that implies that we as Christians aren't to follow the Torah carries less truth that Jesus' verse where He said Christians should follow the Torah.

Is that helping you understand any better?
You arrogant waste of time, I read the conversation, I understood the conversation. You can't help but put yourself on a pedestal, can you?

The way you presented the statement, led the confusion to any reader. I try to get you to clarify it and you go off on a petulant rant.

If PAUL said it, and you wish to declare that Jesus meant it otherwise, then show him how his view of PAUL is wrong, and what CHrist said and further the conversation.

You pose, and pedantically play to evade.
 
Aug 31, 2013
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The Sabbath is not part of God's commandments to Christians.
Got any reason you believe that? Or are we to accept your word as GOd's Decree!!!!????

Interesting. As long as CHRISTIANS are not from ADAM's line, you are right, there was never a reason to keep the Sabbath.
 
Aug 31, 2013
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No, it's not.

"But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."
-Acts 21:25

"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."
Colossians 2:16-17

"One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks."
-Romans 14:5-6
Col talks about SABBATHS, not the Sabbath Day. That's like me discussing KINGS to MY KING.

Romans verse.... is again talking about the holy days, plural of the jews. do some homework, the discussion of holidays has something that separated the different sects of jews from each other.

The Bible mentions Sabbath observance as the norm, for instance see Acts 13:42-44
[SUP]42[/SUP] So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. [SUP]43[/SUP] Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
[SUP]44[/SUP] On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Colossians 2:16-23, "16Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in
respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, 17which are a shadow of the
coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ; 18let no one beguile you of your prize,
delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the
things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh, 19and not
holding the head, from which all the body — through the joints and bands gathering
supply, and being knit together — may increase with the increase of God.20If, then, ye
did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world,
are ye subject to ordinances? 21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle —
22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of
men, 23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-
mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the
flesh."

I think we have v16 down, I want to focus on 20-23, as to see context. Shaul (Paul) in
nearly all his thoughts talks about a topic and then goes on to explain, he uses an
advanced style of writing as his (worldly) education was beyond that of the other NT
writers.

20If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living
in the world, are ye subject to ordinances?

So he is saying if your dead to the world why would you subject yourself to its (the
worlds) ordinances. To think he is saying if your dead to the world then why would you
subject yourself to Yahweh"s/Yahshua's Commandments would make no sense, but he
explains it further.

21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle

the pharisees had a law in which you could not eat meat and cheese togather, or even
within 4 houhs of eachother. Now this is not in Yahweh's Law even, Yahweh's Law says
dont boil a child in its mothers milk (3 times) (the local pagans had this as a
religious practice Yahweh did not want His people to partake in these evil pagan
practices) the pharisees using something called "midrashic interpretation" the
pharisees looked at it and said well since it says this three times it must meant three
different things. SO THEY MADE UP THEIR OWN LAW, that was completely disconnected from
Scripture and enforced it as from Yahweh.

22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of
men,

So here very clearly he states "the commandments of men", now if you read from 16-20
you see he stays on topic, and 20 says basically if your dead to the world why do what
the world tells you, so we can see he is still on this topic from v16. In this verse

22, he says "which are all for destruction",

how does Sabbath lead to destruction and
it would also have to be a "commandment of men" if there is ant commandment that is the
farthest thing possible from being a "commandment of men" it is the Sabbath, it was
from creation and it shows the AUTHORITY of the Creator, the mark of the Creator. Also
tying a "commandment of men" to destruction Romans 8:13, "For if you live according to
the commandments of men, you will die; but if, through the Spirit, you put to death;
put an end to, the evildoing of mankind, you will live."

23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness,
and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh.

Pleasing of the pharisees by following the talmud. v22 for context = "after the
commands and teachings of men"

you see the pharisees would have a problem if you did things according to Yahweh's
instruction and not their ORAL LAW, this is shown in MATT 15, 23, mark 7:7-9, etc
the jews did make their own holidays, Haunnaka and Rosh hashanna and more. when they
left babylon they even changed the names of the moons (months), and rosh hashanna even
changes the time of the new year, commandment and ordinances of men. the calendar
Yahweh instuted is Yahweh's calendar, the one who created it created the heavens and
the earth. Our current calendar is the gregorian calendar, which goes back to the
bablonian calendar. Yahweh said the days end and begin at sunset, not the jews.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,060
263
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If PAUL said it, and you wish to declare that Jesus meant it otherwise, then show him how his view of PAUL is wrong, and what CHrist said and further.
Everything Paul said lines up perfectly with everything Jesus said. There is no difference in the messages they spoke, or the Gospel they preached.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Everything Paul said lines up perfectly with everything Jesus said. There is no difference in the messages they spoke, or the Gospel they preached.
I think alot of people tend to ignore Yahshua's words and use a twisted interpretation of Shaul's words.

So when they are presented with Yahshua saying: (jus 1 example)

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Then they have to also twist it to mean something it CLEARLY doesnt or ignore.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Yahshua are you talking about Christ or Joshua, Its the same name. What's wrong with Jesus, that name is known in all tongues why do you differ? Do you feel more holy by using His hebrew or greek name, does that make you closer to God than a man who speaks Swahili and knows nothing of this tongue?. Jesus saved me, Jesus sanctifies me, Jesus is my righteousness. Why would I use His hebrew name, It is not what I did but, what He did.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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Jesus saved me, Jesus sanctifies me, Jesus is my righteousness. Why would I use His hebrew name, It is not what I did but, what He did.
Similarly, the name isn't what truly defines Him, it's the substance of who He is, and like you said, what He did.

Personally, I enjoy using His Hebrew name, which in some variation is how He was referred to during His life. I don't always use it, but I find a familiarity and a respect for Him when I use the name His parents gave Him. It doesn't make me any more special than anyone else, it's just something I enjoy.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Similarly, the name isn't what truly defines Him, it's the substance of who He is, and like you said, what He did.

Personally, I enjoy using His Hebrew name, which in some variation is how He was referred to during His life. I don't always use it, but I find a familiarity and a respect for Him when I use the name His parents gave Him. It doesn't make me any more special than anyone else, it's just something I enjoy.
Praise God. I am okay with that, however to the weaker brother or sister, Using that name could cause one to slip. by saying, well I call Him by the Hebrew name and that makes me righteous, when in reality it does not. Sometimes we think of ourselves as so holy and righteous, that we forget that God was born a man in stinking stable, a place where the homeless slept. But I am so mighty,cause I call Him Yeshua.
 
Aug 31, 2013
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Everything Paul said lines up perfectly with everything Jesus said. There is no difference in the messages they spoke, or the Gospel they preached.
Then, your comment, it's syntax, it's choice of words, and it's lack of a point was a worthless diversion. WHY DID you make it? I know you answered, I think you prevaricate, I will never know, that's between you and God. I really don't care. I wanted the whole thing clear for others.