Jerusalem is not Mystery Babylon the Great PERIOD!!!
- Thread starter vic1980
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Sorry,that is NOT correct. Josephus himself was taken captive.
In his own words
Christ had said that the battle would be the worst calamity that had come upon the Jews since “the foundation of the world till now.” Josephus describes the number of calamities as follows:
[HR][/HR]3. Now the number of those that were carried captive during the whole war was collected to be ninety-seven thousand; as was the number of those that perished during the whole siege, eleven hundred thousand, * the greater part of whom were indeed of the same nation, [with the citizens of Jerusalem,] but not belonging to the city itself; for they were come up from all the country to the feast of unleavened bread, and were on a sudden shut up by an army, which, at the very first, occasioned so great a straitness among them, that there came a pestilential destruction upon them, and soon afterward such a famine as destroyed them more suddenly. And that this city could contain so many people in it is manifest by that number of them which was taken under Cestius, who being desirous of informing Nero of the power of the city, who otherwise was disposed to contemn that nation, entreated the high priests, if the thing were possible, to take the number of their whole multitude. So these high priests, upon the coming of their feast which is called the Passover, when they slay their sacrifices, from the ninth hour to the eleventh, but so that a company not less than belong to every sacrifice, (for it is not lawful for them to feast singly by themselves,) and many of us are twenty in a company, found the number of sacrifices was two hundred and fifty-six thousand five hundred; which, upon the allowance of no more than ten that feast together, amounts to two millions seven hundred thousand and two hundred persons that were pure and holy; for as to those that have the leprosy, or the gonorrhea, or women that have their monthly courses, or such as are otherwise polluted, it is not lawful for them to be partakers of this sacrifice; nor indeed for any foreigners neither, who come hither to worship.
The Olivet Discourse and Apocalypse as A.D. 70 Destruction | Jay's Analysis
In his own words
Christ had said that the battle would be the worst calamity that had come upon the Jews since “the foundation of the world till now.” Josephus describes the number of calamities as follows:
[HR][/HR]3. Now the number of those that were carried captive during the whole war was collected to be ninety-seven thousand; as was the number of those that perished during the whole siege, eleven hundred thousand, * the greater part of whom were indeed of the same nation, [with the citizens of Jerusalem,] but not belonging to the city itself; for they were come up from all the country to the feast of unleavened bread, and were on a sudden shut up by an army, which, at the very first, occasioned so great a straitness among them, that there came a pestilential destruction upon them, and soon afterward such a famine as destroyed them more suddenly. And that this city could contain so many people in it is manifest by that number of them which was taken under Cestius, who being desirous of informing Nero of the power of the city, who otherwise was disposed to contemn that nation, entreated the high priests, if the thing were possible, to take the number of their whole multitude. So these high priests, upon the coming of their feast which is called the Passover, when they slay their sacrifices, from the ninth hour to the eleventh, but so that a company not less than belong to every sacrifice, (for it is not lawful for them to feast singly by themselves,) and many of us are twenty in a company, found the number of sacrifices was two hundred and fifty-six thousand five hundred; which, upon the allowance of no more than ten that feast together, amounts to two millions seven hundred thousand and two hundred persons that were pure and holy; for as to those that have the leprosy, or the gonorrhea, or women that have their monthly courses, or such as are otherwise polluted, it is not lawful for them to be partakers of this sacrifice; nor indeed for any foreigners neither, who come hither to worship.
The Olivet Discourse and Apocalypse as A.D. 70 Destruction | Jay's Analysis
The missing color is blue 
Rev 17:4: "The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls"
("The color for bishops and other prelates is purple, for cardinals scarlet... the prectoral cross should be made of gold and decorated with gems" (Our Sunday visitor's Catholic encyclopedia, 1991, pg 175,178,466)
Jerusalem does not fit. Why? There were 4 colors given by God, to be worn by the priests in Israel - gold, blue, purple and scarlet (Exodus 28). This color blue is not mentioned in Rev 17:4.
Numbers 15:37-40: Again the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel: Tell them to make tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue thread in the tassels of the corners. And you shall have the tassel, that you may look upon it and remember all the commandments of the Lord and do them, and that you may not follow the harlotry to which your own heart and your own eyes are inclined, and that you may remember and do all My commandments, and be holy for your God"
Rev 17:4: "The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls"
("The color for bishops and other prelates is purple, for cardinals scarlet... the prectoral cross should be made of gold and decorated with gems" (Our Sunday visitor's Catholic encyclopedia, 1991, pg 175,178,466)
Jerusalem does not fit. Why? There were 4 colors given by God, to be worn by the priests in Israel - gold, blue, purple and scarlet (Exodus 28). This color blue is not mentioned in Rev 17:4.
Numbers 15:37-40: Again the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel: Tell them to make tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue thread in the tassels of the corners. And you shall have the tassel, that you may look upon it and remember all the commandments of the Lord and do them, and that you may not follow the harlotry to which your own heart and your own eyes are inclined, and that you may remember and do all My commandments, and be holy for your God"
HMMM So where did the traditions of men that Jesus spoke came from?
Let's see
The Traditions of the Pharisees
The big question was: How authoritative is the oral law? The Pharisees accepted the oral law along with the Torah, and it was believed to be equally inspired and authoritative, and all of the explanatory and supplementary material produced by, and contained within were the oral tradition. This material began to emerge during the Babylonian Captivity that was brought upon the Jewish people. The Captivity was explained as divine punishment for the neglect of the law, and many during this period earnestly turned to the law.
During the Captivity or Exile, detailed commentaries on the law appeared in the form of innumerable and highly specific restrictions that were designed to "build a hedge" around the written Torah and thus guard against any possible violation of the Torah by ignorance or accident.
The situation that the Jews were in (Post-Exilic Period), and how they were to deal with it exactly, was not clearly written in the Torah, according to some Jewish authorities. A new legislation had to be produced from that which already existed. It was like an evolution of traditions that would continue to grow, and would finally achieve written form as the "Mishnah" in 200 A.D.
During the time of Jesus the oral law came to be revered so highly that it was said to go back to Moses himself and to have been transmitted over the centuries orally, paralleling the written law that also derived from him. This is exactly what the Pharisees believed, and also it was these "traditions" that Jesus condemned.
Josephus said several times that the Pharisees were "experts in the interpretation of the Law" (Josephus, Life, 38). Of the various sects the Pharisees were regarded as "the most accurate interpreters of the laws" (Josephus, War II. viii. 14) and also were known for their austerity of life (Josephus, Antiq. XIII. i. 3). Josephus further specifies that it was exactly this obsession with "regulations handed down by former generations and not recorded in the Laws of Moses" (Josephus, Antiq. XIII. x. 6) that constituted the breach between the Pharisees and the Sadducees.
The Traditions of the Pharisees (Bible History Online)
Let's see
The Traditions of the Pharisees
The big question was: How authoritative is the oral law? The Pharisees accepted the oral law along with the Torah, and it was believed to be equally inspired and authoritative, and all of the explanatory and supplementary material produced by, and contained within were the oral tradition. This material began to emerge during the Babylonian Captivity that was brought upon the Jewish people. The Captivity was explained as divine punishment for the neglect of the law, and many during this period earnestly turned to the law.
During the Captivity or Exile, detailed commentaries on the law appeared in the form of innumerable and highly specific restrictions that were designed to "build a hedge" around the written Torah and thus guard against any possible violation of the Torah by ignorance or accident.
The situation that the Jews were in (Post-Exilic Period), and how they were to deal with it exactly, was not clearly written in the Torah, according to some Jewish authorities. A new legislation had to be produced from that which already existed. It was like an evolution of traditions that would continue to grow, and would finally achieve written form as the "Mishnah" in 200 A.D.
During the time of Jesus the oral law came to be revered so highly that it was said to go back to Moses himself and to have been transmitted over the centuries orally, paralleling the written law that also derived from him. This is exactly what the Pharisees believed, and also it was these "traditions" that Jesus condemned.
Josephus said several times that the Pharisees were "experts in the interpretation of the Law" (Josephus, Life, 38). Of the various sects the Pharisees were regarded as "the most accurate interpreters of the laws" (Josephus, War II. viii. 14) and also were known for their austerity of life (Josephus, Antiq. XIII. i. 3). Josephus further specifies that it was exactly this obsession with "regulations handed down by former generations and not recorded in the Laws of Moses" (Josephus, Antiq. XIII. x. 6) that constituted the breach between the Pharisees and the Sadducees.
The Traditions of the Pharisees (Bible History Online)
Throughout the Word when the Biblical reference Zona (זונה), which is interpreted whore, is made, it is a direct reference to the people of the Most High God having had the truth, gone a whoring or playing the zona, and gone to false gods or a god. This can come in any form but always stems from the imagination or the intellect of the people or person.
Jerusalem is a city. The Jerusalem on earth is not New Jerusalem which is to come down from God. The great zona has the names of blasphemy all over her, and she is the mother of whores, zonas, which are, it seems, the theologies born from the great schism from the RCC.
So we understand this is a reference to the Zona Gadola, or Great Whore who mothered the other Whores.
Always using the Word for our foundation, we cannot go amiss. It is only when it is abridged and changed by human imagination, or intellect does whoredom ensue.
Jerusalem is a city. The Jerusalem on earth is not New Jerusalem which is to come down from God. The great zona has the names of blasphemy all over her, and she is the mother of whores, zonas, which are, it seems, the theologies born from the great schism from the RCC.
So we understand this is a reference to the Zona Gadola, or Great Whore who mothered the other Whores.
Always using the Word for our foundation, we cannot go amiss. It is only when it is abridged and changed by human imagination, or intellect does whoredom ensue.
Here is further evidence that Mystery Babylon is the Roman Catholic church:
HMS: Helm: Doctrinal Writings - Mystery Babylon the Great
HMS: Helm: Doctrinal Writings - Mystery Babylon the Great
J
I have done extensive studies on the subject of the "Babylon" that is to be destroyed in the "Latter Days"; but I only share them with those who ask to see them, so if anyone here would like to see them, PM me an email address to send them to. I have a 4 page short form version, a 28 page intermediate version, and a full version that I can send.
which Israel is recorded as doing, and being referred to as.
it seems.
you just decided it was RCC and 'the great schism' - what would this be about - a departure from Judaism?
earthly Jersualem was the Whore, and the mother of harlots.
she was said pre-70AD to be bearing children for slavery, and who would NOT inherit.
Rome is not the subject in Galatians - the Two Covenants are.
Ezekiel 16:28
You played the whore also with the Assyrians, because you were not satisfied; yes, you played the whore with them, and still you were not satisfied.
zanah: to commit fornication, be a harlot
Original Word: זָנָה
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: zanah
Phonetic Spelling: (zaw-naw')
Short Definition: harlot
ה verb commit fornication, be a harlot (Arabic commit fornication, Aramaic , זנא; compare Ethiopic effusio seminis virilis, seman effusum, Di1055; on this and (compare by Ges and others) see PrätBAS i. 32, Anm.) —
Qal Perfect ׳ז Deuteronomy 31:16, זָָֽנְתָה Genesis 38:34 3t., etc.; Imperfect יִזְנֶ֯ה (Kt) Ezekiel 23:43; תִּזְנֶה Leviticus 19:29 4t.; וַתִּ֫זֶן Jeremiah 3:8; Ezekiel 23:5; תִּזְנִי Hosea 3:3; וַתִּזְנִי Jeremiah 3:6 (but read probably וַתִּזְנִי ׃וַתִּזֶן is not Aramaic form of 3 feminine singular, see Köi. 540 Kau§ 47 g b) Ezekiel 16:15 4t.; וַתִּזְנִים Ezekiel 16:28; יִזְנוּ (Qr) Ezekiel 23:43; וַיִּזְנוּ Judges 8:27 4t.; תִּזְנֶינָה Hosea 4:13,14; וַתִּזְנֶינָה Ezekiel 23:3; Infinitive absolute זָנֹה Hosea 1:2; construct לִזְנוֺת Leviticus 20:5 3t.; לִזְנֹת Leviticus 20:6; suffix בִּזְנוֺתֵךְ Ezekiel 23:30; Participle זוֺנֶה Psalm 73:27; Ezekiel 6:9; זֹנֶה Hosea 4:15; plural זֹנִים Leviticus 17:7 3t.; זוֺנָה Deuteronomy 23:19 25t.; זֹנָה Leviticus 21:7 2t.; זוֺנוֺת Proverbs 29:3; זֹנוֺת Hosea 4:14 4t. —
1 be or act as a harlot, absolute Genesis 38:24 (J), Deuteronomy 22:21 (D), Leviticus 21:9 (H), Hosea 4:13,14; Amos 7:17; זונה + (ה)אשׁה Joshua 2:1; Joshua 6:22 (J), Leviticus 21:7 (H), Judges 11:1; Judges 16:1; Proverbs 6:26; Jeremiah 3:3; Ezekiel 16:30; Ezekiel 23:44; זוֺנָה Genesis 34:31; Genesis 38:15; Joshua 6:17,25 (all J), Deuteronomy 23:19; Leviticus 21:14 (H), Proverbs 7:10; Proverbs 23:27; Isaiah 23:15,16; Joel 4:3; Micah 1:7 (twice in verse); Ezekiel 16:31; נָשִׁים זֹנוֺת 1 Kings 3:16; ז(ו)נות 1 Kings 22:38; Proverbs 29:3; Hosea 3:3; Hosea 4:14; Ezekiel 16:33; בית זונה Jeremiah 5:7; commit fornication, man's act אל ׳ז Numbers 25:1 (J); of woman's act Judges 19:2; of land given to harlotry Leviticus 19:29.
2 figurative of improper intercourse with foreign nations (religious reference sometimes involved) את ׳ז Isaiah 23:17; אחרי Ezekiel 23:30; אל Ezekiel 16:26,28 (twice in verse); תַזְנוּתיה ׳ז Ezekiel 23:43; Nahum 3:4; וַתִּזֶן אָהֳלָה תַחְתָּ֑י and Ohola committed fornication (whilst) under me Ezekiel 23:5 (compare Numbers 5:19).
3 of intercourse with other deities, considered as harlotry, sometimes involving actual prostitution, אחרי ׳ז Exodus 34:15,16; Deuteronomy 31:16 (all J), Leviticus 17:7; Leviticus 20:5 (twice in verse) (all H), Judges 2:17; Judges 8:27,33; 1 Chronicles 5:25; Ezekiel 6:9; Ezekiel 20:30; after אֹבֹת, etc. Leviticus 20:6 (H), one's own heart & eyes Numbers 15:39 (H); especially of Israel, Judah, and Jerusalem under figure of lewd woman Ezekiel 16:15 (absolute) Ezekiel 16:16 (על במית), Ezekiel 16:17 (בְ ׳ז), Ezekiel 23:3 (twice in verse); Ezekiel 23:19 (absolute), Jeremiah 3:1 (with accusative); Jeremiah 3:6; Jeremiah 3:8 (absolute); absolute elsewhere Hosea 2:7; Hosea 4:15; Isaiah 57:3; Psalm 106:39; as leaving ׳י, followed by מֵעַל Hosea 9:1; מאחרי Hosea 1:2 (twice in verse); מתחת Hosea 4:12; followed by מן alone Psalm 73:27; ז(ו)נה Jeremiah 2:20; Ezekiel 16:35,41; בית זונה Jeremiah 5:7; לִבָּם הַזּוֺנֶה their whorish heart Ezekiel 6:9.
4 זונה of moral defection Isaiah 1:21.
Pu`al Perfect3masculine singular אַהֲרַיִךְ לֹא זוּנָּה fornication was not done (in going) after thee Ezekiel 16:34 (but strike out Co).
Hiph`il Perfect2masculine singular הִזְנֵיתָ Hosea 5:3; 3plural חִזְנוּ Hosea 4:10,18; Exodus 34:16; Imperfect וַיֶּ֫זֶן2Chronicles 21:11; וַתַּזְנֶה2Chronicles 21:13; Infinitive absolute הַזְנֵה Hosea 4:18; construct הַזְנוֺת2Chronicles 21:13; suffix לְהַזְנוֺתָהּ Leviticus 19:29.
1 cause to commit fornication:
a. sexual Leviticus 19:29 (H).
b. religious Exodus 34:16 (J), 2 Chronicles 21:11,13 (twice in verse).
2 commit fornication:
a. sexual Hosea 4:10.
b. religious Hosea 4:18 (twice in verse); Hosea 5:3.
Last edited:
H
Sister Zone, sorry, but, post #29 is so much "dribble". It is a "straw man" argument , which the least wind of good contextual reasoning blows away. The fundamentals, like Chuck Swindol, do the same bad tactics with their "faith only" justification; a few key passages destroys their heresy. Love to all Hoffco
H
I will add to the interpretation that the Mystery Babylon to begin with the Roman emp. in John's day; it broadened to include the Roman Cath, ch. later on. and I'm sure the liberal churches in Rome have a part of this wicked persecution of Christians. But Rome definitely fits the description of Rev. 17-18. Love to all Hoffco
i realize that it's difficult for some to actually read what the Bible says.
it could be laziness; use of non-biblical sources; don't know.
a previous poster said the woman was covered with names of blasphemies. really? is that what Rev 17 says?
and you are certain Rev 17 is about Rome...and eventually Papal Rome and Harlot Christian Churches.
how is it you just can not, will not read what it says?
why?
is there really that much at stake in your local church fellowship, or have you repeated your unbiblical version so many times you're willing to carry on regardless of the consequences?
are you really so in love with futurist scenario cocktails you are actually willing to completely ignore History and the Bible's consistent, inspired internal witness to the events of the First Century when Jesus Christ came and fulfilled EXACTLY what was foretold by every single prophet ISRAEL was given - including Daniel?
this chapter is about: 1st century Apostate Jerusalem, and 1st century Pagan Rome under Caesars
Jerusalem was the Woman and Rome was the Beast.
have you not read Daniel at all either? just paperback books or the Scofield footnotes???
Daniel 2
31Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. 32This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, 33His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. 34Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
the 4th beast was ROME (Not the Vatican - Imperial Rome under Caesars)
the stone was cut out without hands was Jesus.
and what was the GEOGRAPHICAL AND THEOCRATIC LOCATION where all this was said to take place?
did Jesus LEAVE Israel and walk around in Iraq or Italy?
what's this Iron mixed with miry clay?
huh? any idea what that is about? it's pretty important to know. is it about Catholics and the Reformation? is it about Auschwitz or 8th century Anglo-Saxons or the Franks or the United Nations?
or does the Bible's internal narrative tell us exactly what the Iron Mixed with clay is?
how can you read the Gospels and NOT understand this?
Daniel 2
40And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
IN THE DAYS OF THOSE KINGS.
the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people.
are you one of these so-called Christians who doesn't think Jesus is The King of kings and Lord of lords TODAY?
is Jesus the Stone cut without hands whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom and will NEVER be destroyed, and will NOT be left to another people?
or are you one of these people who think Jesus FAILED when SOME jews rejected Him and God had to switch plans and call gentiles for a few thousand years instead of what he really wanted which was no Cross - just happy jews and Christ Incarnate as King sitting in the Temple in 1st Century Jerusalem?
....
what does this REALLY SAY?
Revelation 17
The Woman on the Beast
1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
The Mystery Explained
7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
The Victory of the Lamb
14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
....
12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
why no kingdom as yet?
is it because Daniel was speaking to Babylon's King BEFORE THE ROMAN EMPIRE EXISTED?
this second vision (new vantage point) reveals that the BEAST ROME is driven by SATAN, and the Woman is Jerusalem who has committed the LAST WHOREDOM God ALMIGHTY would endure from her - WHOREDOM WITH ROME, IN CRUCIFYING JESUS CHRIST.
do you know how to read simple history, according to it's flow?
can you identify the Bible's internal witnesses to these events in the Gospels which a FIVE YEAR OLD CAN READ?
18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
are you one of these who is willing to fight against God Himself who CLEARLY SAID JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED FOLLOWING THE CONSPIRACY BETWEEN ISRAEL'S APOSTATE LEADERS AND THE ROMANS?
and that He was Crucified in that great city JERUSALEM?
or do you wiggle out of the entire series of events by saying "outside the camp" means Jerusalem has nothing to do with it all and was NOT the object of God's wrath in 70AD? apparently there is no end to Revisionism people are willing to do because the greatest ONTOLOGICAL CRIME IN HISTORY (the killing of Jesus Christ by Jerusalem and Rome) has been cast aside and replaced by Auschwitz or the Inquistion - NEITHER OF WHICH are in the bible?
if you want to talk about those things, and see how Christianity/Christians/Church may or may not have been involved; or how much Christian Apostasy exists today; or how much killing Mao Zedong or the Bolsheviks did - GO FOR IT. but don't Eisegete it into the Biblical Text because it isn't IN THERE.
Psalm 2
The Reign of the LORD’s Anointed
1 Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6 “As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.” < HEAVENLY ZION
7 I will tell of the decree:
The LORD said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You shall breakb them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
....
Acts 4
23When they were released, they went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, “Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, 25who through the mouth of our father David, your servant,c said by the Holy Spirit,
“‘Why did the Gentiles rage,
and the peoples plot in vain?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers were gathered together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed’d—
for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
28to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. 29And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servantse to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.
...
for truly in this city:
Mystery, Babylon the Great Harlot
5On the next day their rulers and elders and scribes gathered together in Jerusalem, 6with Annas the high priest and Caiaphas and John and Alexander, and all who were of the high-priestly family. 7And when they had set them in the midst, they inquired, “By what power or by what name did you do this?” 8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders, 9if we are being examined today concerning a good deed done to a crippled man, by what means this man has been healed, 10let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well. 11This Jesusa is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.b 12And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
13Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus. 14But seeing the man who was healed standing beside them, they had nothing to say in opposition. 15But when they had commanded them to leave the council, they conferred with one another, 16saying, “What shall we do with these men? For that a notable sign has been performed through them is evident to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it. 17But in order that it may spread no further among the people, let us warn them to speak no more to anyone in this name.”
there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed,
both Herod (CLAY) and Pontius Pilate (IRON), along with the Gentiles (IRON) and the peoples of Israel (CLAY)
................
4th kingdom - Herods in League with ROME
KILLED JESUS
the REMNANT JEWS who became Christians were SAVED and fled Jerusalem the Harlot BEFORE the decree of desolation was carried out - by TITUS, the 10th HORN (Caesar) and his people in 70AD.
the Roman-Jewish (revolutionary) Wars continued after that - UNTIL BOTH WERE UTTERLY DESTROYED.
Apostate Jerusalem was the Harlot, she rode upon the Scarlet Colored Beast of Imperial Rome until God placed it in the hearts of the Romans to utterly burn her with fire.
WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE?
it could be laziness; use of non-biblical sources; don't know.
a previous poster said the woman was covered with names of blasphemies. really? is that what Rev 17 says?
and you are certain Rev 17 is about Rome...and eventually Papal Rome and Harlot Christian Churches.
how is it you just can not, will not read what it says?
why?
is there really that much at stake in your local church fellowship, or have you repeated your unbiblical version so many times you're willing to carry on regardless of the consequences?
are you really so in love with futurist scenario cocktails you are actually willing to completely ignore History and the Bible's consistent, inspired internal witness to the events of the First Century when Jesus Christ came and fulfilled EXACTLY what was foretold by every single prophet ISRAEL was given - including Daniel?
this chapter is about: 1st century Apostate Jerusalem, and 1st century Pagan Rome under Caesars
Jerusalem was the Woman and Rome was the Beast.
have you not read Daniel at all either? just paperback books or the Scofield footnotes???
Daniel 2
31Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. 32This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, 33His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. 34Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
the 4th beast was ROME (Not the Vatican - Imperial Rome under Caesars)
the stone was cut out without hands was Jesus.
and what was the GEOGRAPHICAL AND THEOCRATIC LOCATION where all this was said to take place?
did Jesus LEAVE Israel and walk around in Iraq or Italy?
what's this Iron mixed with miry clay?
huh? any idea what that is about? it's pretty important to know. is it about Catholics and the Reformation? is it about Auschwitz or 8th century Anglo-Saxons or the Franks or the United Nations?
or does the Bible's internal narrative tell us exactly what the Iron Mixed with clay is?
how can you read the Gospels and NOT understand this?
Daniel 2
40And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
IN THE DAYS OF THOSE KINGS.
the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people.
are you one of these so-called Christians who doesn't think Jesus is The King of kings and Lord of lords TODAY?
is Jesus the Stone cut without hands whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom and will NEVER be destroyed, and will NOT be left to another people?
or are you one of these people who think Jesus FAILED when SOME jews rejected Him and God had to switch plans and call gentiles for a few thousand years instead of what he really wanted which was no Cross - just happy jews and Christ Incarnate as King sitting in the Temple in 1st Century Jerusalem?
....
what does this REALLY SAY?
Revelation 17
The Woman on the Beast
1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
The Mystery Explained
7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
The Victory of the Lamb
14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
....
12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
why no kingdom as yet?
is it because Daniel was speaking to Babylon's King BEFORE THE ROMAN EMPIRE EXISTED?
this second vision (new vantage point) reveals that the BEAST ROME is driven by SATAN, and the Woman is Jerusalem who has committed the LAST WHOREDOM God ALMIGHTY would endure from her - WHOREDOM WITH ROME, IN CRUCIFYING JESUS CHRIST.
do you know how to read simple history, according to it's flow?
can you identify the Bible's internal witnesses to these events in the Gospels which a FIVE YEAR OLD CAN READ?
18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
are you one of these who is willing to fight against God Himself who CLEARLY SAID JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED FOLLOWING THE CONSPIRACY BETWEEN ISRAEL'S APOSTATE LEADERS AND THE ROMANS?
and that He was Crucified in that great city JERUSALEM?
or do you wiggle out of the entire series of events by saying "outside the camp" means Jerusalem has nothing to do with it all and was NOT the object of God's wrath in 70AD? apparently there is no end to Revisionism people are willing to do because the greatest ONTOLOGICAL CRIME IN HISTORY (the killing of Jesus Christ by Jerusalem and Rome) has been cast aside and replaced by Auschwitz or the Inquistion - NEITHER OF WHICH are in the bible?
if you want to talk about those things, and see how Christianity/Christians/Church may or may not have been involved; or how much Christian Apostasy exists today; or how much killing Mao Zedong or the Bolsheviks did - GO FOR IT. but don't Eisegete it into the Biblical Text because it isn't IN THERE.
Psalm 2
The Reign of the LORD’s Anointed
1 Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6 “As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.” < HEAVENLY ZION
7 I will tell of the decree:
The LORD said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You shall breakb them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
....
Acts 4
23When they were released, they went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, “Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, 25who through the mouth of our father David, your servant,c said by the Holy Spirit,
“‘Why did the Gentiles rage,
and the peoples plot in vain?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers were gathered together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed’d—
for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
28to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. 29And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servantse to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.
...
for truly in this city:
Mystery, Babylon the Great Harlot
5On the next day their rulers and elders and scribes gathered together in Jerusalem, 6with Annas the high priest and Caiaphas and John and Alexander, and all who were of the high-priestly family. 7And when they had set them in the midst, they inquired, “By what power or by what name did you do this?” 8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders, 9if we are being examined today concerning a good deed done to a crippled man, by what means this man has been healed, 10let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well. 11This Jesusa is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.b 12And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
13Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus. 14But seeing the man who was healed standing beside them, they had nothing to say in opposition. 15But when they had commanded them to leave the council, they conferred with one another, 16saying, “What shall we do with these men? For that a notable sign has been performed through them is evident to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it. 17But in order that it may spread no further among the people, let us warn them to speak no more to anyone in this name.”
there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed,
both Herod (CLAY) and Pontius Pilate (IRON), along with the Gentiles (IRON) and the peoples of Israel (CLAY)
................
4th kingdom - Herods in League with ROME
KILLED JESUS
the REMNANT JEWS who became Christians were SAVED and fled Jerusalem the Harlot BEFORE the decree of desolation was carried out - by TITUS, the 10th HORN (Caesar) and his people in 70AD.
the Roman-Jewish (revolutionary) Wars continued after that - UNTIL BOTH WERE UTTERLY DESTROYED.
Apostate Jerusalem was the Harlot, she rode upon the Scarlet Colored Beast of Imperial Rome until God placed it in the hearts of the Romans to utterly burn her with fire.
WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE?
You reminded me of this scripture... 2 Peter 3:15-16 - "........as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures"
As scripture says, God is calling "MY people" (believers) to come out of these systems, not just the mother but the daughters also.
Rev 18:4: "And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues"
We know there are wheat and tares. Some get saved and then never leave these false systems. This scripture seems to suggest that if they don't come out of the mother or daughter denomination systems that they will share in her sins and also receive of her plagues.
So in conclusion to that... we know that the mother will be destroyed. Could it be that the "receiving of her plagues" would indicate that those who refuse to come out will also suffer the same way as her?
A lot of further thoughts came into my head the other night and I made lots of notes. I'm reluctant to post them publicly right now, since I need to study more of the scriptures to see if these things match up.
As scripture says, God is calling "MY people" (believers) to come out of these systems, not just the mother but the daughters also.
Rev 18:4: "And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues"
We know there are wheat and tares. Some get saved and then never leave these false systems. This scripture seems to suggest that if they don't come out of the mother or daughter denomination systems that they will share in her sins and also receive of her plagues.
So in conclusion to that... we know that the mother will be destroyed. Could it be that the "receiving of her plagues" would indicate that those who refuse to come out will also suffer the same way as her?
A lot of further thoughts came into my head the other night and I made lots of notes. I'm reluctant to post them publicly right now, since I need to study more of the scriptures to see if these things match up.
H
To Zone, I am about lost for words with you. It doesn't seen like anything can get through to you. You can not read contextually, you don't learn from hindsight, you seen to destroy all the future trues which God has put into His word. What in the book of Revelation do you take literally? Do you believe in the literal recreation of the Heavens and the earth? Do you believe in the literal New Jerusalem, that will be the city which Abraham looked for ,which will come down from Heaven and sit upon the new earth for ever? To me most all the symbols and allegorys are explained by the God. God tells us what historical people and places He is talking about. It is quite simple and wonderful to me. I have read Daniel and Revelation, plus many other relevant passages,old and new testaments, several times in the last 3 months, to refresh my understanding and I have enjoyed every minute of it. I even have enjoyed read your long post, just to hear again the word of God. And a lot of your worldly knowledge is interesting, but way over my head, too brainy for me. In your last post your mixed up the 10 kings of Rev. with the ten horns of Daniel. You are very very pathetic to think Jesus' final kingdom is here on earth now. If this is what and all that Jesus promised us, I for one would can it quites. Jesus promised us that we will someday, soon, rule this world, along side of Him. I am real looking forward to that day. And God will right all the wrongs that men have done to me. Do you believe in the literal return of Jesus to this earth. I am thinking of you as the worse liberal in the world, right now, sorry but I have no confidence in you at all anymore. What do you really believe? Love toall Hoffco
E
Peace through jesus christ he who is who was and is to come.
My incredible joy I cannot express I have heard that of truth in part of the revelations you did describe. Your young men shall have visions the christ said. The holy city adorned as a bride descending is trully holy and all truth of the fathers will. Christ shall be your god and you shall be his people. To me the joy and emmanuel with you. Jesus said he did not come to take away nor to destroy but to fullfill. He said whomsoever shall say raca shall be in danger of the judgment and whomsoever shall say thou fool shall be in danger of hellfire. He said at the well to the woman "of this water you shall thirst again but of the water that I bring you shall never thist" to me I am happy that holy jerusalem adorned he reigns. I had always believed the true jew gods people hold the true word. Also I believe it more than inspired. If tounges speak the holy tounges it is not jibber jabber nor can only one hear it the spirit of truth all can hear. Jesus said to me for me to take up my cross. Also I seen him in heaven he said holy men have desired to see what I have. He said to the angel of the church "that you have tried them that call themselves jews and are not and have found them liars and are of the synogogs of santan" . He told us all to be as disiples as children of god of Gods will. I rejoice greatly to the parts of truth. Long suffering, charity, the greatest being charity over love and all shall be of long suffering. If we are with the bridegroom then a treasure in heaven where are heart is. I know the true 1611 is by god through holy tounges. May the light always be as a city that is set on a hill and cannot be hid. "A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid neither do men light a candel and put it under a bushel but on a lamp stand (i think of a pedestal like a bible goes even so his words are best for sure) so that it shines for all that are in the house" my lord with us.
My incredible joy I cannot express I have heard that of truth in part of the revelations you did describe. Your young men shall have visions the christ said. The holy city adorned as a bride descending is trully holy and all truth of the fathers will. Christ shall be your god and you shall be his people. To me the joy and emmanuel with you. Jesus said he did not come to take away nor to destroy but to fullfill. He said whomsoever shall say raca shall be in danger of the judgment and whomsoever shall say thou fool shall be in danger of hellfire. He said at the well to the woman "of this water you shall thirst again but of the water that I bring you shall never thist" to me I am happy that holy jerusalem adorned he reigns. I had always believed the true jew gods people hold the true word. Also I believe it more than inspired. If tounges speak the holy tounges it is not jibber jabber nor can only one hear it the spirit of truth all can hear. Jesus said to me for me to take up my cross. Also I seen him in heaven he said holy men have desired to see what I have. He said to the angel of the church "that you have tried them that call themselves jews and are not and have found them liars and are of the synogogs of santan" . He told us all to be as disiples as children of god of Gods will. I rejoice greatly to the parts of truth. Long suffering, charity, the greatest being charity over love and all shall be of long suffering. If we are with the bridegroom then a treasure in heaven where are heart is. I know the true 1611 is by god through holy tounges. May the light always be as a city that is set on a hill and cannot be hid. "A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid neither do men light a candel and put it under a bushel but on a lamp stand (i think of a pedestal like a bible goes even so his words are best for sure) so that it shines for all that are in the house" my lord with us.
Jerusalem is to be the city Christ returns to at His second coming...
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Christ will reside there during the Millenium and the nations will go to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles...
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Now what is the fate of Babylon at the end time?
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Hmmm, sound like the place Christ will inhabit for 1000 years?
Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Doesn't sound much like Jerusalem is Babylon to me.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Christ will reside there during the Millenium and the nations will go to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles...
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Now what is the fate of Babylon at the end time?
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Hmmm, sound like the place Christ will inhabit for 1000 years?
Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Doesn't sound much like Jerusalem is Babylon to me.
E
People need to realise what is going on.
In gen 3. Satan had trciked mankind into following him. Thus he became the ruller of this world. With it came sin, evil and ungodliness. but also came natural problems with Gods physical creation. Nature itself went on a downward trend. and will keep going in that way until it almost destroys itself.
The OT prophets (including gen 3: 15 and God himself) spoke of two healings.
first would come the redeemer. the suffering servant who would take the sin of the people and restor mankind to the ability to have a relationship with God.
the second was king messiah, who would come and restore not only the order of humanity to moral peace and goodness as he rules. But nature itself. to the way God intended it to be.
The first was fulfilled completely in Christ. the second is still waiting to be fully fulfilled. This fulfilment will come in what Scripture calls. "the end of the age"
In gen 3. Satan had trciked mankind into following him. Thus he became the ruller of this world. With it came sin, evil and ungodliness. but also came natural problems with Gods physical creation. Nature itself went on a downward trend. and will keep going in that way until it almost destroys itself.
The OT prophets (including gen 3: 15 and God himself) spoke of two healings.
first would come the redeemer. the suffering servant who would take the sin of the people and restor mankind to the ability to have a relationship with God.
the second was king messiah, who would come and restore not only the order of humanity to moral peace and goodness as he rules. But nature itself. to the way God intended it to be.
The first was fulfilled completely in Christ. the second is still waiting to be fully fulfilled. This fulfilment will come in what Scripture calls. "the end of the age"
At which time the world will enter His rest...
Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
A very real and tangible rest...
Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
There is one major event that must take place for this to happen, the fulfillment of the Day of Atonement...
Isa 14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Here is the Azazel goat...
Lev 16:7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
Lev 16:9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
Lev 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Lev 16:20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:
Lev 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
Lev 16:22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
This goat cannot be Christ. Christ died for our sins, this goat is released alive in an uninhabited wilderness (desert). He is to bear the responsibility for sin. The Devil is the originator, the father, of sin...
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
He originated sin and in the future will bear the responsibilty for bringing sin into the world.
Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
A very real and tangible rest...
Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
There is one major event that must take place for this to happen, the fulfillment of the Day of Atonement...
Isa 14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Here is the Azazel goat...
Lev 16:7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
Lev 16:9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
Lev 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Lev 16:20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:
Lev 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
Lev 16:22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
This goat cannot be Christ. Christ died for our sins, this goat is released alive in an uninhabited wilderness (desert). He is to bear the responsibility for sin. The Devil is the originator, the father, of sin...
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
He originated sin and in the future will bear the responsibilty for bringing sin into the world.
nah. they're the same horns.
Daniel 7
"After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast--terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.
^ ROME ^
Revelation 13:1
The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
^ ROME & HERODS ^
we're not in eternity yet.
Jesus is King & Priest RIGHT NOW.
if He isn't you might as well call it quits.
you're not saved.
oh well.
i can't do much about your confusion.
Daniel 7
"After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast--terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.
^ ROME ^
Revelation 13:1
The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
^ ROME & HERODS ^
we're not in eternity yet.
Jesus is King & Priest RIGHT NOW.
if He isn't you might as well call it quits.
you're not saved.
oh well.
i can't do much about your confusion.