What is the minimum beliefs needed to be a Christian

[Drett]

May I ask why you are so interested in Christianity? I know your original belief is Islam. Are you just interested in the aspects of Christianity or are you doing some soul searching? I kinda like to know what your train of thought is on this one.

I like to think I have an open mind.

I find it all interesting. I reckon it would make a great tv series. You have your King James Bible guys. At the beginning I thought it was a gee up but they are quite serious about the King James bible. Then you have your people who believe hell is not eternal. Just seemed obvious to me it was eternal for people who reject God but they seem to argue otherwise. You have your Christians who believe the Jewish people are saved despite how they treated Jesus and continue to dish him every chance they get. You have your speaking in tongue fans. Then you have everyone turning on the Catholics. Those idol worshippers no better than the Muslims. lol It is all fascinating stuff.

 

[Cobus]

Drett, did you read the whole Bible? What is your take on God and HIS WILL? I find that the God of the Bible, the Holy and ONLY God He claims He is, is by far teh one with the most outrageous promises and blesings. But can he back it up! That is what would make Him truly AMAZING....

I see it in LIFE! I do not htink it is to difficult to make something that has no life, but to sustain life.... THAT is amazing. Let me explain it this way... I can take a rock and make iron or copper or gold from it. I can take different chemicals and make a good washing liquid or powder from it, but I CANNOT MAKE A LIVING THING! I cannot make a single cell, not plant or animal. I can thry mixing the same chemicals found in the cells, but they just do not produce LIFE!

It is that LIFE part that amazes me. It is that LIFE in all living things that makes me realize, there is something bigger than me out there. Now how would I know which One is the GOD that mae that life? Well if only there is a God that would come off His High Heavens, and come and show me WHY HE MADE LIFE.... Then that is the ONE that can proove HE IS GOD OF ALL...

And HE DID! When He came he pregnated a virgin, and even the Muslims admits this, And HE called the Man born of virgin: Jesus Christ. And that Man that was a miricle of LIFE said HE is the Messiah, and the God that made Jesus the mircle said... This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased... Now that the Muslims have a problem with, A HUGE problem....

So bad do they have it that they should kill all who say that the Messiah is the Son of God! They CANNOT understand that the GLORY of God in man is what JESUS CHRIST WAS! But that the Glory Jesus had BEFORE THE EART HWAS MADE is the GLORY OF GOD HIMSELF....

Jesus is GOD! Jesus in HIS FULL GLORY IS GOD! Jesus in the glory of God in flesh, is CHRIST JESUS THE SON OF GOD! I am a son of God, if the GLORY OF JESUS AS MAN IS IN ME! So here is the wonderful thing about God... the HOLY LIFE I can live is the SON OF GOD IN ME! I CANNOT live a holy life, if the Spirit and glory of Jesus as MAN is NOT IN ME!


No person is holy before God, WITHOUT the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD! The only way God makes a person HOLY is to put the SPIRIT OF THE SON IN HIM! If God gives us the glory of Jesus as God, we will be God, but if God gives us the glory of JEsus as Man, we are His Sons and Daughters, and as perfect as Jesus was perfect. WELL PLEASING TO GOD! That is the ONLY pleasing God accepts...

NO OTHER religeon comes CLOSE to the promise of God.... Repent and be baptized... Leave sin and He will BAPTIZE you with HIS OWN SPIRIT... WOW!

There is only ONE TRUE doctrine, and the REAL CHILDREN OF GOD, are ALL SANCTIFIED IN THAT TRUTH.... JOhn 17. Read the whole chapter of John 17 and see what God does with HIS PEOPLE!

 

[Hoffco]

Drett, All the Bible is inspired, written by, by God, using His human prophets, and profitable for truth and gives life . If we study it with an open mind ,with all your heart , God will reveal Himself to you, in all of his glory and toughness. Do not believe anything christians tell you, most are messed up . but you read the Bible for your self, without mocking God, and He will be found. Love to all Hoffco

 

[phil36]

You only posted one verse. And I am wondering from my post how you could possibly have read that I think original sin is sinning early in life? I believe that is the sin we do and is accounted against us, unless we follow Christ. From what ever age one knows right from wrong.

Original sin is the sin we purportedly inherit, ancestral sin resulting from Adam's rebellion in the Garden of Eden. My issue is whether Original sin is true, since I took Hebrew, and our prof talked a lot about Psalm 51:5, as we studied the whole psalm.

Psalm 51:5 is one of the big verses used to support Original Sin. What if that verse was because David's mom conceived him illegitimately? That would make him "conceived in sin." Which is the exact wording in Hebrew, I might add.

In fact, the concept wasn't even alluded till till Irenaeus in the 2nd century. Not that it makes it wrong or right. Perhaps a new thread could discuss this. I sit on the fence with this issue.

But I will point out as a former teacher, Phil, that "seminaries" is the correct English spelling of the word. Change the "y" to "i" and add "es". Just saying. Of course, I didn't learn that in Seminary, probably somewhere in grade 4 or 5 English!

Hi Angela,

Yes I have to admit spelling was never my big point.. I always lost points due to my grammar

I remember having to do an essay on original sin.. As I am sure you would agree you need to know what the opposing views are, so that you can come to your conclusion. The argument against really rallies on the one verse or atleast concentrates here. Yet Scripture as a whole, is replete with man in his natural state.. ie sinful (from the Fall) So original sin is not based on one scripture..

2nd century is quite early in Christian history for articulation of doctrine, there where many things going on at the same time that that took the time of the early church fathers. As you say this doesn't mean anything! I agree.

 

[SarahM777]

I like to think I have an open mind.

I find it all interesting. I reckon it would make a great tv series. You have your King James Bible guys. At the beginning I thought it was a gee up but they are quite serious about the King James bible. Then you have your people who believe hell is not eternal. Just seemed obvious to me it was eternal for people who reject God but they seem to argue otherwise. You have your Christians who believe the Jewish people are saved despite how they treated Jesus and continue to dish him every chance they get. You have your speaking in tongue fans. Then you have everyone turning on the Catholics. Those idol worshippers no better than the Muslims. lol It is all fascinating stuff.

But Drett,it is one of the problems do have is that people look way too much at other people. One thing I found Drett is many Muslims know the Bible better then most Christians. It shouldn't be that way. The real question for you Drett is the very same question Jesus asked Peter

Matthew 16

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it.19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.”20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Who is Jesus to you? That is one of the questions that must be answered,it is at the heart of all of it. Get this wrong and no matter what else one believes will help you. One either has the right Jesus or are following a different Jesus.

 

[Starcrash]

excuse me, starcrash
i thought you were an atheist here to challenge our beliefs and your own. which is fine.
so why are you posting jews for judaism videos which deny Jesus is the Christ?

is it that you believe them, in their denial based on their readings (= unbelief)?
please clarify. are you an adherent of judaism?
t.y. zone

As a rational person, I don't divide the world into "knights" and "knaves" -- here I'm referring to puzzles where you're given statements by people that are lies or truths, and you figure out whether the person always lies or always tells the truth. Even people I disagree with can be trusted about many things.

The man is an expert on Old Testament claims about the Messiah, which is why I cite him.

 

[Drett]

Drett, did you read the whole Bible? What is your take on God and HIS WILL? I find that the God of the Bible, the Holy and ONLY God He claims He is, is by far teh one with the most outrageous promises and blesings. But can he back it up! That is what would make Him truly AMAZING....

I see it in LIFE! I do not htink it is to difficult to make something that has no life, but to sustain life.... THAT is amazing. Let me explain it this way... I can take a rock and make iron or copper or gold from it. I can take different chemicals and make a good washing liquid or powder from it, but I CANNOT MAKE A LIVING THING! I cannot make a single cell, not plant or animal. I can thry mixing the same chemicals found in the cells, but they just do not produce LIFE!

It is that LIFE part that amazes me. It is that LIFE in all living things that makes me realize, there is something bigger than me out there. Now how would I know which One is the GOD that mae that life? Well if only there is a God that would come off His High Heavens, and come and show me WHY HE MADE LIFE.... Then that is the ONE that can proove HE IS GOD OF ALL...

And HE DID! When He came he pregnated a virgin, and even the Muslims admits this, And HE called the Man born of virgin: Jesus Christ. And that Man that was a miricle of LIFE said HE is the Messiah, and the God that made Jesus the mircle said... This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased... Now that the Muslims have a problem with, A HUGE problem....

So bad do they have it that they should kill all who say that the Messiah is the Son of God! They CANNOT understand that the GLORY of God in man is what JESUS CHRIST WAS! But that the Glory Jesus had BEFORE THE EART HWAS MADE is the GLORY OF GOD HIMSELF....

Jesus is GOD! Jesus in HIS FULL GLORY IS GOD! Jesus in the glory of God in flesh, is CHRIST JESUS THE SON OF GOD! I am a son of God, if the GLORY OF JESUS AS MAN IS IN ME! So here is the wonderful thing about God... the HOLY LIFE I can live is the SON OF GOD IN ME! I CANNOT live a holy life, if the Spirit and glory of Jesus as MAN is NOT IN ME!


No person is holy before God, WITHOUT the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD! The only way God makes a person HOLY is to put the SPIRIT OF THE SON IN HIM! If God gives us the glory of Jesus as God, we will be God, but if God gives us the glory of JEsus as Man, we are His Sons and Daughters, and as perfect as Jesus was perfect. WELL PLEASING TO GOD! That is the ONLY pleasing God accepts...

NO OTHER religeon comes CLOSE to the promise of God.... Repent and be baptized... Leave sin and He will BAPTIZE you with HIS OWN SPIRIT... WOW!

There is only ONE TRUE doctrine, and the REAL CHILDREN OF GOD, are ALL SANCTIFIED IN THAT TRUTH.... JOhn 17. Read the whole chapter of John 17 and see what God does with HIS PEOPLE!

I have read the bible a couple of times. I struggle through the begets.

Concerning Gods will. Nothing can happen if God does not want it to happen.

 

[Drett]

But Drett,it is one of the problems do have is that people look way too much at other people. One thing I found Drett is many Muslims know the Bible better then most Christians. It shouldn't be that way. The real question for you Drett is the very same question Jesus asked Peter

Matthew 16

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it.19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.”20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Who is Jesus to you? That is one of the questions that must be answered,it is at the heart of all of it. Get this wrong and no matter what else one believes will help you. One either has the right Jesus or are following a different Jesus.

People tend to look way too much at how Muslims act as well.

Was Peter the rock that the church was built or Paul ? I think Paul became the foundation after Jesus ascended.

 

[SarahM777]

People tend to look way too much at how Muslims act as well.

Was Peter the rock that the church was built or Paul ? I think Paul became the foundation after Jesus ascended.

Jesus is the Rock,the chief cornerstone,it is neither Peter or Paul.

See Drett what gets lost in all of this is the why God designed the cross the way He did. It is why many think it is foolishness. The cross MUST humble us so completely. It must remove any and all of our pride in our owns works and merits. It must show us our complete helplessness to do anything to merit heaven. It must show that it is wholly dependent upon faith in Christ alone. It is wholly by God's mercy alone that we can stand before Him. God will only show mercy in HUMILITY ,never in pride. It is designed to break our pride before Him. The message of the law and the cross MUST do that. The purpose of the law is show we can't fulfill the law on our own. God's way of mercy is through the cross.

 

[thecreationtutor]

Very confused as to which translation this is. I can produce 4 versions here that say "youth", "childhood"

"[SUP]21 [/SUP]And when the Lords smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, forthe intention of man's heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done." ESV

"The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done" NIV

"And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done." KJV

"When the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, He said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, even though man’s inclination is evil from his youth. And I will never again strike down every living thing as I have done." HCSB

Not a single one says childbirth. As for the video, I prefer to know the studies, and what the Bible says about this issue. Actually, there is not a lot of evidence to support original sin, but as a mother of 4, I would have to agree that sin starts early. But whether an awareness of right and wrong is there, is another whole question.

This was the post - i could have sworn the verse said childbirth - but it doesn't - it does say youth - was too lazy

 

[zone]

As a rational person, I don't divide the world into "knights" and "knaves" -- here I'm referring to puzzles where you're given statements by people that are lies or truths, and you figure out whether the person always lies or always tells the truth. Even people I disagree with can be trusted about many things.

The man is an expert on Old Testament claims about the Messiah, which is why I cite him.

lol....he's not an expert if he doesn't recognize Jesus in the Old Testament.

 

[homwardbound]

Woah, woah, woah! Men are born good?

Then why will no flesh please God in the ?Sight of God then, besides Christ alone?

 

[homwardbound]

So then what?
A newborn baby has already sinned against God?

No not yet, but has that potential to be selfish, from flesh birth on.

 

[homwardbound]

Somebody doesn't understand Original Sin...

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

We all when first born are born of flesh period and in need of being born again, in the Spirit
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 

[homwardbound]

Even the link in your supposed verse doesn't use the word "childbirth", not even in the foot notes.
Where did you pull that out of? Yourear?

Well here it at least it says from his youth

[h=3]Genesis 8:21[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake; for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

 

[homwardbound]

Minimum requirement to be Christian = God's FAITH IN YOU.... Not yours in HIM, HIS IN YOU!

Only if GOD has FAITH IN YOU, YOU ARE HIS CHILD!.... For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

go and learn what this means I require Mercy not Sacrifice. God have Mercy on me, I see what you said Cobus, thank you. It is a gift from God, has nothing of us to cause this amazing Merciful gift, otherwise if it were of works it could not be a gift,

 

[homwardbound]

I would also like to point out that my Texan Southern Baptist professor did not tell us to believe or not believe in Original Sin. He actually said it was a hard case to prove in Hebraic thinking using Psalm 51:5, and had some very good reasons. Sadly I cannot remember them all, and my notes are put away. I still have the actual transcriptions from Hebrew, but not the notes.

His big reason for telling us this, was so that we would "think" and also search the scriptures. That is one of the purposes of Seminary - to make you think and search. I know that thinking through all my doctrine really helped reinforce my faith. It is also the reason I enjoy this forum so much.

Some people come in here with pure garbage, such as Mary worship, and because I know it is not in the Bible at all, I can throw it out. Others come in here with doctrines I have not heard about, and I can learn, and make a decision based not just on what I read here, but what the Word of God says. Preferably not Scripture torn out of context or mistranslated.

Finally, there are people coming here who directly contradict the Word of God, on things that to me are a necessity (such as the divinity of Christ). It sharpens me to read and to enter into the discussion. Whether these heretics are convinced is another issue. But maybe some people who did not know or understand have learned from the discussion from the many people who have very strong doctrine and who have really searched the Scriptures.

Which is really what this post is about. What is essential to believe as a Christian, and what is unnecessary? Maybe a post for each item, except the ones that already have over 100 threads on them?

And no, Jimmie, not rustled at all! Just enjoying thinking out loud and wondering what others have learned on the topic of Original Sin, from their reading of the Bible.

That we are when first born, we are born of the flesh and dead to the Spirit of God, as Chirst pretty much toi me confirmed this in the Garden when the disciples fell asleep.
Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

And is to me another confirmation of the need to be born again in the Spirit of God. Thus seek this and see the difference and seek fro God to give us this born Again Spirit of God, and God does to those that God chooses to have Mercy on. And to me the reason here is God knows our motives and will give to those that plain and simply only want to know God without malice.

 

[Angela53510]

People tend to look way too much at how Muslims act as well.

Was Peter the rock that the church was built or Paul ? I think Paul became the foundation after Jesus ascended.

I think you are close in your estimation. Paul is the apostle who took the gospel to the Gentiles and wrote a good portion of the New Testament. For that reason he is probably more foundational to the establishment of Christianity than Peter. But Christ is the REAL foundation, as Sarah says.

Without Jesus, Christianity means nothing!

 

[Starcrash]

lol....he's not an expert if he doesn't recognize Jesus in the Old Testament.

This assumption is made from total ignorance.

The Jews believed in a Messiah that would come after the world had already recognized the Jews as the chosen people (their own version of the Millennial Kingdom), and they still do. Why would you suppose that Christians know what the Messiah's qualities are better than the people who wrote about him? Christians allege that the Messiah came to save the world from their sins, but that doesn't make sense from a Jewish perspective -- they already had blood atonement, so why would they need fixing for something that wasn't broken? They wanted salvation from their oppressors, and Jesus clearly didn't come to rescue them from the ruling Roman authorities, and thus didn't fit the Jewish definition of "The Messiah". The Jews don't need descriptions of The Messiah, because they believe that the conditions that he will enter in will be so obvious that it won't need pointing out (again, their "Millennial Kingdom" in which Israel rules the Earth) and they'll know this person because he'll be sitting on the throne in that time.

Every single prophecy cited in the New Testament is taken out of context (such as Isaiah 53, clearly speaking of the nation of Israel like every chapter surrounding it) or misquoted (such as Micah 5:2, which speaks of a clan springing from a person named Bethlehem through his father Ephratah, not a city) or completely made up. There were probably Jewish followers of a man named Jesus of Nazareth who thought that he would bring in this future kingdom, and his death led them to re-write the definition of The Messiah to make him fit rather than to believe the embarrassing idea that they had been duped all along, because that's human nature.

 

[Drett]

This assumption is made from total ignorance.

The Jews believed in a Messiah that would come after the world had already recognized the Jews as the chosen people (their own version of the Millennial Kingdom), and they still do. Why would you suppose that Christians know what the Messiah's qualities are better than the people who wrote about him? Christians allege that the Messiah came to save the world from their sins, but that doesn't make sense from a Jewish perspective -- they already had blood atonement, so why would they need fixing for something that wasn't broken? They wanted salvation from their oppressors, and Jesus clearly didn't come to rescue them from the ruling Roman authorities, and thus didn't fit the Jewish definition of "The Messiah". The Jews don't need descriptions of The Messiah, because they believe that the conditions that he will enter in will be so obvious that it won't need pointing out (again, their "Millennial Kingdom" in which Israel rules the Earth) and they'll know this person because he'll be sitting on the throne in that time.

Every single prophecy cited in the New Testament is taken out of context (such as Isaiah 53, clearly speaking of the nation of Israel like every chapter surrounding it) or misquoted (such as Micah 5:2, which speaks of a clan springing from a person named Bethlehem through his father Ephratah, not a city) or completely made up. There were probably Jewish followers of a man named Jesus of Nazareth who thought that he would bring in this future kingdom, and his death led them to re-write the definition of The Messiah to make him fit rather than to believe the embarrassing idea that they had been duped all along, because that's human nature.

The conversations with John the Baptist would suggest there were three prophecies that the Jews were waiting on before Jesus came onto the scene. They wanted to know if John was the fulfillment of one of those prophecies.

Are you Christ? *Messiah
Are you Elijah?
Are you THAT Prophet? *Duet 18:18