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i had a messianic rabbi friend who spent time in one
That's correct, that's Auschwitz, she's paying her respects.
Please explain how putting a smiley face in your message about a Nazi concentration camp in your post is respectful? Why would you smile about 6 million Jews being exterminated by the Nazis?
Yours is the most antisemitic post I've ever seen on Christian Chat.
Eh. The decision to frown upon the Jews of the concentration camps by other Jews is actually not a rare occurrence. I think many Jews feel shame over the compliance of their ancestors to die without putting up a fight, and a lot of Jews would probably rather just forget about the Hollocaust if it weren't important to remember for history's sake. To them it's just another example of docile Jewish behavior that makes them cringe. Take for instance Bialik's In the City of Slaughter concerning the pogroms:
Homosexual theology, back in your first post:
How is this the result of God's divine intervention in Israel?
The more homosexuals in the world, the more tourism jobs and dollars that Israel will make. Why not just promote homosexuality to start with then?
I don't have that much patience for gay pride myself--whether Australian or Israeli. I think they need to seek Jesus and repent, just like the rest of us.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
How is this the result of God's divine intervention in Israel?
The more homosexuals in the world, the more tourism jobs and dollars that Israel will make. Why not just promote homosexuality to start with then?
I don't have that much patience for gay pride myself--whether Australian or Israeli. I think they need to seek Jesus and repent, just like the rest of us.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
you don't know what i believe yet.
but i know your game.
i don't play that one.
i deal with facts. in the face of your pathetically uninformed intimidation tactics.
whether your stuff is just more conditioned mantra; or whether you have an interest in continuing to propagate gravely serious and world-changing myths means little to me. either way it's your problem.
i thought Christians had the spirit of truth in them. The Spirit IS TRUTH. He will never lead into half-truth.
this has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING except - WHAT IS THE TRUTH.
whatever the truth is, that's where i stand. you - who knows?
start a new thread - in Miscellaneous.
this will be my last post on this issue on this thread.
if you want to discuss this rationally using real documentation, i'm willing.
if all you have are slurs and rhetoric, forget it.
....
btw: your 'documentation' is unrevised lying propaganda from the History Channel??
"From 1941 to 1945, Adolf Hitler's totalitarian Nazi regime murdered some six million European Jews during World War II." - is no longer taught nor believed by mainstream Historians - including Jewish Historians....
spend a day or two out of your life actually studying the issue before you continue to:
1) slander and stigmatize people who have taken the time to know what happened - including jewish historians
2) bludgeon people with outdated propaganda devices (the kabbalistic number 6 million - which is thoroughly revised by everyone but propagandists)
3) continue to make a fool of yourself
but i know your game.
i don't play that one.
i deal with facts. in the face of your pathetically uninformed intimidation tactics.
whether your stuff is just more conditioned mantra; or whether you have an interest in continuing to propagate gravely serious and world-changing myths means little to me. either way it's your problem.
i thought Christians had the spirit of truth in them. The Spirit IS TRUTH. He will never lead into half-truth.
this has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING except - WHAT IS THE TRUTH.
whatever the truth is, that's where i stand. you - who knows?
start a new thread - in Miscellaneous.
this will be my last post on this issue on this thread.
if you want to discuss this rationally using real documentation, i'm willing.
if all you have are slurs and rhetoric, forget it.
....
btw: your 'documentation' is unrevised lying propaganda from the History Channel??
"From 1941 to 1945, Adolf Hitler's totalitarian Nazi regime murdered some six million European Jews during World War II." - is no longer taught nor believed by mainstream Historians - including Jewish Historians....
spend a day or two out of your life actually studying the issue before you continue to:
1) slander and stigmatize people who have taken the time to know what happened - including jewish historians
2) bludgeon people with outdated propaganda devices (the kabbalistic number 6 million - which is thoroughly revised by everyone but propagandists)
3) continue to make a fool of yourself
like i said. start a thread where you will be challenged on everything you say.
and your pictures of heaps of bodies of poor souls who died of typhus and starvation.
don't believe it? we'll document it. on your new thread where you rationally and reasonably go through the subject point by point and we determine what happened, and what did not happen.
and guess what - we end up agreeing with today's Historians.
we also end up antagonizing people who have lied.
but since we are Christians, and we care about TRUTH, and we hate lies, it won't matter if people who have an interest in lying are outraged.
~
what's this - do you know?
do you see anything wrong with the content of this article?
we'll discuss it on your new thread.
......
German ruling says Dresden was a holocaust
By Hannah Cleaver in Berlin
12:01AM BST 12 Apr 2005
German prosecutors have provoked outrage by ruling that the 1945 RAF bombing of Dresden can legally be termed a "holocaust".
The decision follows the refusal by the Hamburg public prosecutor's office to press charges against a Right-wing politician who compared the bombing raids to "the extermination of the Jews".
German law forbids the denial or playing down of the Holocaust as an incitement to hatred.
So delicate is the subject of the slaughter of Jews under Hitler that any use of the word "holocaust", or comparison with it, faces intense scrutiny and sometimes legal action.
But prosecutors have declined to pursue further the case of Udo Voigt, the chairman of the far-Right NPD, who likened the RAF's raids to the Nazis' "final solution".
Rudigger Bagger, a spokesman for the Hamburg public prosecutor, said the decision took into account only the criminal, not the moral, aspects of the case.
But he cited as a legal precedent a ruling by the federal constitutional court that favoured free speech in political exchanges, if defamation was not the prime aim of the argument.
Holger Apfel, the NPD's leader in the Saxon regional parliament, caused a scandal in January when he shouted down a commemoration of the Dresden bombing, prompting many others to walk out in disgust.
His outburst was covered by parliamentary privilege but Mr Voigt applauded and repeated the statements elsewhere.
Paul Spiegel, the president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, criticised the decision by prosecutors not to take action. He said the statements were incitement and allowing them to stand opened the door to further such comments.
"Morally, I have no understanding of this," he said. "One can ban such remarks if you use the law consistently. It is questionable whether statements that are clearly incitement come under freedom of expression."
Although the NPD is despised by other parties, German politicians reluctantly accepted the ruling.
Dieter Wiefelspüetz, the interior spokesman for the Social Democrat Party described the phrase "holocaust" in the context of Dresden as an "exploitation of the victims". But he supported the decision not to prosecute.
Attitudes towards the Allied bombing campaign, which killed hundreds of thousands of civilians, are changing. Estimates of the death toll in Dresden in February 1945 hover at about 35,000. All the same, some historians claim that as many as 500,000 people were killed in the raids.
Strictly speaking, the word "holocaust," which comes from the ancient Greek for "burnt", might seem apt for Dresden, much of it immolated by the fires started by the RAF's incendiary bombs.
But its primary meaning is now so closely linked to the Nazis' treatment of the Jews that such etymology appears to be in bad taste.
German ruling says Dresden was a holocaust - Telegraph < click
Bombing of Dresden in World War II
Bombing of Dresden in World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE (for starters - it's hardly unbiased as it is). look at the pictures.
then tell me what this means:
"Paul Spiegel, the president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, criticised the decision by prosecutors not to take action. He said the statements were incitement and allowing them to stand opened the door to further such comments."
what action? PRISON? for what? what incitement?
"Dresden was a holocaust"
hol·o·caust
/ˈhäləˌkôst/
Noun
Destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, esp. caused by fire or nuclear war: "a nuclear holocaust".
was it or wasn't it?
"So delicate is the subject of the slaughter of Jews under Hitler that any use of the word "holocaust", or comparison with it, faces intense scrutiny and sometimes legal action."
REALLY? WHY?
anyway....start a new thread.
and your pictures of heaps of bodies of poor souls who died of typhus and starvation.
don't believe it? we'll document it. on your new thread where you rationally and reasonably go through the subject point by point and we determine what happened, and what did not happen.
and guess what - we end up agreeing with today's Historians.
we also end up antagonizing people who have lied.
but since we are Christians, and we care about TRUTH, and we hate lies, it won't matter if people who have an interest in lying are outraged.
~
what's this - do you know?
do you see anything wrong with the content of this article?
we'll discuss it on your new thread.
......
German ruling says Dresden was a holocaust
By Hannah Cleaver in Berlin
12:01AM BST 12 Apr 2005
German prosecutors have provoked outrage by ruling that the 1945 RAF bombing of Dresden can legally be termed a "holocaust".
The decision follows the refusal by the Hamburg public prosecutor's office to press charges against a Right-wing politician who compared the bombing raids to "the extermination of the Jews".
German law forbids the denial or playing down of the Holocaust as an incitement to hatred.
So delicate is the subject of the slaughter of Jews under Hitler that any use of the word "holocaust", or comparison with it, faces intense scrutiny and sometimes legal action.
But prosecutors have declined to pursue further the case of Udo Voigt, the chairman of the far-Right NPD, who likened the RAF's raids to the Nazis' "final solution".
Rudigger Bagger, a spokesman for the Hamburg public prosecutor, said the decision took into account only the criminal, not the moral, aspects of the case.
But he cited as a legal precedent a ruling by the federal constitutional court that favoured free speech in political exchanges, if defamation was not the prime aim of the argument.
Holger Apfel, the NPD's leader in the Saxon regional parliament, caused a scandal in January when he shouted down a commemoration of the Dresden bombing, prompting many others to walk out in disgust.
His outburst was covered by parliamentary privilege but Mr Voigt applauded and repeated the statements elsewhere.
Paul Spiegel, the president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, criticised the decision by prosecutors not to take action. He said the statements were incitement and allowing them to stand opened the door to further such comments.
"Morally, I have no understanding of this," he said. "One can ban such remarks if you use the law consistently. It is questionable whether statements that are clearly incitement come under freedom of expression."
Although the NPD is despised by other parties, German politicians reluctantly accepted the ruling.
Dieter Wiefelspüetz, the interior spokesman for the Social Democrat Party described the phrase "holocaust" in the context of Dresden as an "exploitation of the victims". But he supported the decision not to prosecute.
Attitudes towards the Allied bombing campaign, which killed hundreds of thousands of civilians, are changing. Estimates of the death toll in Dresden in February 1945 hover at about 35,000. All the same, some historians claim that as many as 500,000 people were killed in the raids.
Strictly speaking, the word "holocaust," which comes from the ancient Greek for "burnt", might seem apt for Dresden, much of it immolated by the fires started by the RAF's incendiary bombs.
But its primary meaning is now so closely linked to the Nazis' treatment of the Jews that such etymology appears to be in bad taste.
German ruling says Dresden was a holocaust - Telegraph < click
Bombing of Dresden in World War II
Bombing of Dresden in World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE (for starters - it's hardly unbiased as it is). look at the pictures.
then tell me what this means:
"Paul Spiegel, the president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, criticised the decision by prosecutors not to take action. He said the statements were incitement and allowing them to stand opened the door to further such comments."
what action? PRISON? for what? what incitement?
"Dresden was a holocaust"
hol·o·caust
/ˈhäləˌkôst/
Noun
Destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, esp. caused by fire or nuclear war: "a nuclear holocaust".
was it or wasn't it?
"So delicate is the subject of the slaughter of Jews under Hitler that any use of the word "holocaust", or comparison with it, faces intense scrutiny and sometimes legal action."
REALLY? WHY?
anyway....start a new thread.
B
you don't know what i believe yet.
but i know your game.
i don't play that one.
i deal with facts. in the face of your pathetically uninformed intimidation tactics.
whether your stuff is just more conditioned mantra; or whether you have an interest in continuing to propagate gravely serious and world-changing myths means little to me. either way it's your problem.
i thought Christians had the spirit of truth in them. The Spirit IS TRUTH. He will never lead into half-truth.
this has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING except - WHAT IS THE TRUTH.
whatever the truth is, that's where i stand. you - who knows?
start a new thread - in Miscellaneous.
this will be my last post on this issue on this thread.
if you want to discuss this rationally using real documentation, i'm willing.
if all you have are slurs and rhetoric, forget it.
....
btw: your 'documentation' is unrevised lying propaganda from the History Channel??
"From 1941 to 1945, Adolf Hitler's totalitarian Nazi regime murdered some six million European Jews during World War II." - is no longer taught nor believed by mainstream Historians - including Jewish Historians....
spend a day or two out of your life actually studying the issue before you continue to:
1) slander and stigmatize people who have taken the time to know what happened - including jewish historians
2) bludgeon people with outdated propaganda devices (the kabbalistic number 6 million - which is thoroughly revised by everyone but propagandists)
3) continue to make a fool of yourself
but i know your game.
i don't play that one.
i deal with facts. in the face of your pathetically uninformed intimidation tactics.
whether your stuff is just more conditioned mantra; or whether you have an interest in continuing to propagate gravely serious and world-changing myths means little to me. either way it's your problem.
i thought Christians had the spirit of truth in them. The Spirit IS TRUTH. He will never lead into half-truth.
this has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING except - WHAT IS THE TRUTH.
whatever the truth is, that's where i stand. you - who knows?
start a new thread - in Miscellaneous.
this will be my last post on this issue on this thread.
if you want to discuss this rationally using real documentation, i'm willing.
if all you have are slurs and rhetoric, forget it.
....
btw: your 'documentation' is unrevised lying propaganda from the History Channel??
"From 1941 to 1945, Adolf Hitler's totalitarian Nazi regime murdered some six million European Jews during World War II." - is no longer taught nor believed by mainstream Historians - including Jewish Historians....
spend a day or two out of your life actually studying the issue before you continue to:
1) slander and stigmatize people who have taken the time to know what happened - including jewish historians
2) bludgeon people with outdated propaganda devices (the kabbalistic number 6 million - which is thoroughly revised by everyone but propagandists)
3) continue to make a fool of yourself
presumably that means you won't be posting any more undocumented material.
and by the way....
hol·o·caust
/ˈhäləˌkôst/
Noun
1) Destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, esp. caused by fire or nuclear war: "a nuclear holocaust".
2) The mass murder of Jews under the German Nazi regime during the period 1941–45.
the definition of holocaust is "Destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, esp. caused by fire" [or nuclear war: "a nuclear holocaust" - added with the invention of the nuclear bomb] < which the US dropped on 2 catholic cities needlessly btw.
since the definition is death by burning, please post on your new thread how that applies to the deaths of jews in WW2 (death by burning). and why the word is virtually copyrighted....and anyone using it for any reason is in danger of PRISON.
do you have answers for these things?
start a thread. i'll give you the answers.
you love the Truth, don't you?
at any cost to yourself?
and by the way....
hol·o·caust
/ˈhäləˌkôst/
Noun
1) Destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, esp. caused by fire or nuclear war: "a nuclear holocaust".
2) The mass murder of Jews under the German Nazi regime during the period 1941–45.
the definition of holocaust is "Destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, esp. caused by fire" [or nuclear war: "a nuclear holocaust" - added with the invention of the nuclear bomb] < which the US dropped on 2 catholic cities needlessly btw.
since the definition is death by burning, please post on your new thread how that applies to the deaths of jews in WW2 (death by burning). and why the word is virtually copyrighted....and anyone using it for any reason is in danger of PRISON.
do you have answers for these things?
start a thread. i'll give you the answers.
you love the Truth, don't you?
at any cost to yourself?
As regarding figures of the holocaust or slaughter perpetrated by the Nazis. I recall well as a child the figures given, at least until the early to mid 1960's. There were approximately 2,000,000 Jews murdered, one is too many, and approximately 4,000,000 people with assorted charactaristics unwanted in Nazi Germany.
Yes, I have noticed how the figures have changed radically over the decades, but it really does not make the event worse. Why the change in figures over the years, I have no idea.
The fact is, Jews were slaughtered for being Jews, and I say again, one is too many. The same goes for the crippled, the elderly, the ailing, the homosexuals and all else slaughtered by Satan, the Nazis.
There is no need to argue figures when the deed is just as dastardly no matter how many were killed. It is like arguing degrees of sin.
Yes, I have noticed how the figures have changed radically over the decades, but it really does not make the event worse. Why the change in figures over the years, I have no idea.
The fact is, Jews were slaughtered for being Jews, and I say again, one is too many. The same goes for the crippled, the elderly, the ailing, the homosexuals and all else slaughtered by Satan, the Nazis.
There is no need to argue figures when the deed is just as dastardly no matter how many were killed. It is like arguing degrees of sin.
one is too many.
100% agree.
that applies to all people everywhere.
WW2 is not the only time man has murdered millions of others.
........
"There is no need to argue figures when the deed is just as dastardly no matter how many were killed."
doesn't quite work Jack...since in spite of what you acknowledge (as do most reasonably informed people), that the number is not 6 million and never was....it is still A CRIME to say otherwise.
why is that?
why is it a crime to agree with the Truth?
100% agree.
that applies to all people everywhere.
WW2 is not the only time man has murdered millions of others.
........
"There is no need to argue figures when the deed is just as dastardly no matter how many were killed."
doesn't quite work Jack...since in spite of what you acknowledge (as do most reasonably informed people), that the number is not 6 million and never was....it is still A CRIME to say otherwise.
why is that?
why is it a crime to agree with the Truth?
Let's hope the Germans (or the Israelis) don't hear about this thread that you started.... I wonder what the Jewish people in Israel think of the posts above this one...
Gerald Fredrick Töben - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Gerald Fredrick Töben (born 1944) is a German-born Australian citizen and founder and former director of the Adelaide Institute. ... he became best known after being arrested for Holocaust denial.
The arrest warrant was dismissed by Westminster Magistrates' Court on 29 October 2008, ..."
I wonder what the Jewish people in Israel think of the posts above this one... Gerald Fredrick Töben - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Gerald Fredrick Töben (born 1944) is a German-born Australian citizen and founder and former director of the Adelaide Institute. ... he became best known after being arrested for Holocaust denial.
The arrest warrant was dismissed by Westminster Magistrates' Court on 29 October 2008, ..."
what garbage. this is typical.
what are you asking me for?
some in the dispensationalist camp claim the holocaust appears in the Bible - sickening as that is.
anyway...you clearly know nothing of what happened - this is just more of your opportunism.
i wouldn't know why it would be a problem. laziness? fear?
it can be a problem wading through propaganda...no question about that.
there are oceans of it.
but the material is there. declassified documents; jewish historians; mainstream unbiased historians....and Russia has not yet released what they know about the camps on their soil. they are about to however.....
since we know there were no extermination camps on German soil, we have only anecdotes.....so far.
you have to care about Truth, though.
not emotional rhetoric.
and you have to be willing to be persecuted for the truth.
ha?
start a thread. we'll look at sources.
once again, you're ticked off that dispensationalism is heresy, so any port in a storm to fire at me.
go for it. i'm immune at this point.
i don't discuss this without documentation.
start a thread and back up your claims.
were they burned to death [holocaust]? just yes or no.
what a stupid question.
what are you asking me for?
some in the dispensationalist camp claim the holocaust appears in the Bible - sickening as that is.
anyway...you clearly know nothing of what happened - this is just more of your opportunism.
i wouldn't know why it would be a problem. laziness? fear?
it can be a problem wading through propaganda...no question about that.
there are oceans of it.
but the material is there. declassified documents; jewish historians; mainstream unbiased historians....and Russia has not yet released what they know about the camps on their soil. they are about to however.....
since we know there were no extermination camps on German soil, we have only anecdotes.....so far.
you have to care about Truth, though.
not emotional rhetoric.
and you have to be willing to be persecuted for the truth.
ha?
start a thread. we'll look at sources.
once again, you're ticked off that dispensationalism is heresy, so any port in a storm to fire at me.
go for it. i'm immune at this point.
i don't discuss this without documentation.
start a thread and back up your claims.
were they burned to death [holocaust]? just yes or no.
what a stupid question.
Quite so.
[video=youtube;2Ec-kZGKnQ8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ec-kZGKnQ8[/video]
Jer 16:15 But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers. 16 ¶ Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
[video=youtube;2Ec-kZGKnQ8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ec-kZGKnQ8[/video]
Jer 16:15 But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers. 16 ¶ Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
C
wow you keep pushing the envelope;
I have NEVER promoted homosexuality now you are attributing an entire quote to me that IS NOT MINE
THIS is not me....>>>
>>>>Originally Posted by CoooCaw
Objectively, we must conclude that such miraculousevents suggest Divine intervention in human affairs. God not only created theuniverse; God is still involved in its workings.<<<
I have NEVER promoted homosexuality now you are attributing an entire quote to me that IS NOT MINE
THIS is not me....>>>
>>>>Originally Posted by CoooCaw
Objectively, we must conclude that such miraculousevents suggest Divine intervention in human affairs. God not only created theuniverse; God is still involved in its workings.<<<
Need I say more about this person being a holocaust denier? Also, we can now add to the list that she is a liar. In her post before last she said she would no longer post about this subject on this thread.
Understand, my Christian brothers and sisters that there are demonic beings whose job is to mislead God's children. Ask yourself if a person filled with such hate, who never extols, but whose only purpose seems to be to degrade a people, is worth listening to? We KNOW that NO ONE will be saved except by the blood of Jesus, including Jewish people, but how does degrading them and hating them with no sign of love at all convince ANYBODY of this fact?