What Laws are still valid to christians

[KohenMatt]

Lol. What?



Did you guys even read the past 114 pages? Or are you just trying to win by posting your own view as many times as possible, without considering any evidence to the contrary?

I don't think that's how these threads are supposed to work.

Actually, this is more the continuation of a conversation he and I were having towards the beginning of this thread. My recent posts to him weren't necessarily for the betterment of the entire board, but moreso to clarify a position from much earlier.

I had given up keeping up with this thread about page #50-ish.

 

[Josh321]

nice way to ignore it

hizikyah you keep misunderstanding what we are trying to say, no one is saying to break the commandments, all we are saying it is fulfilled in us when we receive the holy spirit

 

[KohenMatt]

You guys sure play fast and loose with the facts. Did you make this up, or did you read it on a law-cultist website (where I suspect most of this garbage comes from)?

Jesus hardly ever spoke with gentiles; you cannot show me anywhere in the bible where he told them to keep the law of Moses. And his appointed messengers who succeeded him, when given the opportunity to instruct the gentiles to follow the law of Moses, specifically ruled against doing so.

Matthew 5:1-20

5 When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him. 2 He opened His mouth and began to teach them, saying,
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10 “Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Disciples and the World

13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15 nor doesanyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, notthe smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches othersto do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

nice way to ignore it

Ignore what?

I am not lawless. so it would not be directed to me.

Thats your peoples problems. You believe all people who understand the law has been fulfilled are lawless. And have no desire to seek the things of God.

In this you are mistaking, and making assuptions based on your lack of understanding what we believe. Which most likely comes from the fact you are listening to people TELL you we must believe this, instead of actually listening to what we say!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Oops! I forgot one.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things that are written in the book of the law to do them.” Now it is clear that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law, because “the one who is righteous will live by faith.” Galatians 3:10-11​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oops! I forgot one.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things that are written in the book of the law to do them.” Now it is clear that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law, because “the one who is righteous will live by faith.” Galatians 3:10-11​

Yep those two go hand in hand.

The ot command in exodus, and the NT confirming of this commands.

Prove that "the law" is EVERY COMMAND, Not just the ones people pick and chose to follow;.

 

[Josh321]

Matthew 5:1-20

5 When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him. 2 He opened His mouth and began to teach them, saying,
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10 “Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Disciples and the World

13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15 nor doesanyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, notthe smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches othersto do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

sadly it seems like your not gonna come to terms to what did means, instead of talking i'm just gonna ask you what do you think jesus means when he said he came to fulfill the law, and the 10 commandments judge the entire world so why would it be passed away? if they were no commandments there would've been no sin, and until the fullness of the gentiles comes in it will not be moved

 

[Josh321]

Oops! I forgot one.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things that are written in the book of the law to do them.” Now it is clear that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law, because “the one who is righteous will live by faith.” Galatians 3:10-11​

yet some people living by the law, after seeing that

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Ignore what?

I am not lawless. so it would not be directed to me.

Thats your peoples problems. You believe all people who understand the law has been fulfilled are lawless. And have no desire to seek the things of God.

In this you are mistaking, and making assuptions based on your lack of understanding what we believe. Which most likely comes from the fact you are listening to people TELL you we must believe this, instead of actually listening to what we say!

They are carnal in their understanding just like the pharisees were. By equating keeping of laws with righteousness, they have stumbled at the stumbling stone that righteousness is through faith. By disregarding GOD's revealed will, and seeking to be justified by law, they have become lawless.

For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For ignoring the righteousness of God [by faith], and seeking to establish their own righteousness [by works of law], they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:2-4

Why [do they stumble]? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if by works [of law]. They stumbled over the stone that causes people to stumble, just as it is written, ​“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble, and a rock that causes them to fall, and the one who believes in him will not be put to shame.” Romans 9:32-33​

 

[Josh321]

They are carnal in their understanding just like the pharisees were. By equating keeping of laws with righteousness, they have stumbled at the stumbling stone that righteousness is through faith. By disregarding GOD's revealed will, and seeking to be justified by law, they have become lawless.

For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For ignoring the righteousness of God [by faith], and seeking to establish their own righteousness [by works of law], they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:2-4

Why [do they stumble]? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if by works [of law]. They stumbled over the stone that causes people to stumble, just as it is written, ​“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble, and a rock that causes them to fall, and the one who believes in him will not be put to shame.” Romans 9:32-33​

i'm confused though, despite the fact that we are quoting all of these scriptures and showing them what we are trying to say and they don't think for once what does this mean? or anything like that such a one track mind, it's very sad to see...

 

[KohenMatt]

So how do you interpret Jesus words in Matthew 5?

 

[Josh321]

some people need a good rebuking from the word of God

 

[Linda70]

Ignore what?

I am not lawless. so it would not be directed to me.

Nobody is lawless.

People can be related to the eternal, unchangeable, moral absolutes of God without being under the moral aspect of the Mosaic Law; and it is possible to be free from the moral aspect of the Mosaic Law without being lawless.

Freedom from the moral aspect of the Mosaic Law does not involve freedom from the eternal, unchangeable moral absolutes of God. It only involves freedom from one way of God's administering His absolutes--namely through the Mosaic Law. If one is under God's grace, in administering His eternal, unchangeable, moral absolutes, one will not be lawless. ....Dr. Renald E. Showers

 

[Josh321]

So how do you interpret Jesus words in Matthew 5?

let me ask you something, why do you think one part of the bible say something and the other part say something else and don't go saying that paul is wrong to justify your actions like you always do give me your thoughts about this

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For ignoring the righteousness of God [by faith], and seeking to establish their own righteousness [by works of law], they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:2-4
​

This is exactly what they do. They assert that all scripture is of equal value, and equally binding in authority, but in doing so actually ignore the clear teachings of the apostles that we are living under a new covenant with new laws (that sometimes appears to contradict the letter of the law of Moses).

 

[KohenMatt]

let me ask you something, why do you think one part of the bible say something and the other part say something else and don't go saying that paul is wrong to justify your actions like you always do give me your thoughts about this

They don't say something different. They say the same thing.

And remember, I've never said Paul was wrong. That is a lie, Josh.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Nobody is lawless.

Correct. No one of faith is lawless. This is what Paul meant when he said:

Therefore, do we nullify law through faith? May it never be! But we uphold law. Romans 3:31​

In other words, 'Are we becoming lawless through faith? May it never be! Rather we are upholding law because the law of the new covenant is faith.'

This is [GOD's] commandment: that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he commanded us. 1 John 3:23​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Where there is no faith, the vacuum is filled with works of law.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

They don't say something different. They say the same thing.

And remember, I've never said Paul was wrong. That is a lie, Josh.

Moses' law commands circumcision in the flesh. Paul said don't do it as a matter of obedience to law. Explain.

 

[Josh321]

They don't say something different. They say the same thing.

And remember, I've never said Paul was wrong. That is a lie, Josh.

really? well how come when i show you this [h=3]Galatians 5:4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


you show me something else about the law should b kept?