study - Olivet Discourse

[doulos]

Somebody better tell the Jews in Jerusalem that there won't be a third temple because they sure are talking a lot about it and apparently actively working towards it. These are just two recent stories from the JPOST.

So now you base your understanding of Scripture on what the Jews want to do? Interesting I always thaought we were to base our belief on what Scripture says not what the Jews want to do. As I have shown you in post 216 of this thread (quoted below for your convenience), even if the Jews build a building and call it a temple it won’t be the temple of God.

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
It is sad to see people people attempting to teach when doing so only demonstrates there error. The temple of God is not a man made building!
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Eph 2:19-21 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

As you are led friend, as you are led!

 

[PlainWord]

So now you base your understanding of Scripture on what the Jews want to do? Interesting I always thaought we were to base our belief on what Scripture says not what the Jews want to do. As I have shown you in post 216 of this thread (quoted below for your convenience), even if the Jews build a building and call it a temple it won’t be the temple of God.
As you are led friend, as you are led!

4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place"

1 ...And the angel stood, saying, "Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.

I'm not calling it the temple of God, God is. So take it up with HIM!!! As for what the Jews are doing or wanting to do, isn't that how prophesy gets fulfilled, by people doing what has been foretold? I can't believe I'm wasting my time trying to explain this to someone who thinks Christ already came and we already had the 1,000 year reign on earth.

As you are misled friend...

 

[GRA]

4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place"

1 ...And the angel stood, saying, "Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.

I'm not calling it the temple of God, God is. So take it up with HIM!!! As for what the Jews are doing or wanting to do, isn't that how prophesy gets fulfilled, by people doing what has been foretold? I can't believe I'm wasting my time trying to explain this to someone who thinks Christ already came and we already had the 1,000 year reign on earth.

As you are misled friend...

"Take it easy, PlainWord..."

I could possibly be very easily persuaded to make my own statement beginning with the words:

"I can't believe I'm wasting my time trying to explain..."

I'm not calling it the temple of God, God is.

True. However, ...

Since the crucifixion / resurrection of Christ, God no longer has a temple built by man.

What is interesting to note is - regardless of when John wrote the book of Revelation, it was after the crucifixion / resurrection of Christ.

"Kinda makes that verse in Revelation even more interesting..."

( Especially if you are like me and believe that it must be talking about a temple built by man. )

Have you considered that it just might be the one that was still standing back before 70 A.D.?

 

[PlainWord]

"Take it easy, PlainWord..."

I could possibly be very easily persuaded to make my own statement beginning with the words:

"I can't believe I'm wasting my time trying to explain..."




True. However, ...

Since the crucifixion / resurrection of Christ, God no longer has a temple built by man.

What is interesting to note is - regardless of when John wrote the book of Revelation, it was after the crucifixion / resurrection of Christ.

"Kinda makes that verse in Revelation even more interesting..."

( Especially if you are like me and believe that it must be talking about a temple built by man. )

Have you considered that it just might be the one that was still standing back before 70 A.D.?

Your opening line quoting me was not aimed at you. I was called out...

Revelation is widely considered to have been written around AD 90-95. Thus, John was speaking of a new temple. John was not speaking of Christian hearts as you don't measure them, nor the alter, nor those who worship there.

Besides the events surrounding the deception of the Beast/Satan have not happened yet. Titus may have been a precursor and a type of False Christ but he was certainly not the one Paul spoke of. Proof is that we are still in normal bodies. When Christ returns we all receive spiritual bodies that don't die.

Satan is not yet bound as he is very much still out there. Sin is more and more rampant and is only going to get worse. Lawlessness has not fully abound.

 

[PlainWord]

A new temple will most likely be built. This doesn't mean God approves of it as He certainly won't approve of the sacrifices. But the new temple will be built to God by His people so it can be desecrated and God would be angry, I would think. Considering who we know will be behind the abomination, God will be doubly angry. Considering who or what will be there claiming to be His son, I would think would make Him furious, whether He approves of the temple or not. But this is conjecture on my part although it does seem to be what we see foretold.

 

[doulos]

4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I have shown you where Scripture tells us the temple of God is numerous times, hopefully you will take the time to read and understand the following verses this time.

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
As the above verses demonstrate the temple of God is not a man made building!
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Eph 2:19-21 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

If you want to find the man of sin you won’t find him in some building the Jews may or may build, not some building that would already be desolate before the first step of construction even started because God doesn’t/won’t dwell in man made buildings. If you truly want to find the man of sin look in the true temple of God. A Scripturally sound study on the man of sin can be found HERE <click

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place"

Christ doesn’t say temple of God in this verse. If Christ meant the temple of God then why didn’t He say temple of God? Is the temple of God the only holy place there is?
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Is a city a place? Sure it is! So doesn’t that make Jerusalem a holy place? So wouldn’t an it standing (not a he that sitteth) in the court left out for the Gentiles in Jerusalem be standing in a holy place? Sure it is.

1 ...And the angel stood, saying, "Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.

John was told to write about the past, present and future.
Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
"Hast seen" is past tense, "which are" is present tense to John (past tense for us, considering John died 1900 years ago.), and "which shall be hereafter" which is present tense for John but considering John died 1900 hundred years ago much of that is also in our past.

If the court left out for the Gentiles wasn’t important it would not have been mentioned. Considering the FACT that man made temples are not the temple of God then clearly John was shown the temple that was destroyed in 70AD so that he would know where the court that was given to the Gentiles.

I'm not calling it the temple of God, God is. So take it up with HIM!!!

Don’t let your anger strengthen your resolve to stand by the doctrine you have been taught, instead focus on studying the Scriptures to rightly divide the word of truth. I suspect God is more interested in you searching for truth then He is in your ability to defend a doctrine that has been proven false. I have no problem with God’s Word so I have no need to take it up with Him. I do have a problem with your gross misrepresentation of God’s Word just so you can forcefit Scripture to your doctrine. Our job is not to force fit the Scriptures to our doctrine, but instead to study to shew ourselves approved rightly dividing the word of truth! So I will take it up with you!

As for what the Jews are doing or wanting to do, isn't that how prophesy gets fulfilled, by people doing what has been foretold?

Yes prophecy is fulfilled when people do what has been foretold. The problem is many people do just as many of the Jews did during Christ’s first advent and allow their doctrines to blind them (we were against that in Mark7:13). So despite the fact the prophetic Scriptures have been unfolding right before our eyes for the last 1900+ years many people (like you, you are not alone) are still looking to the future for the fulfillment of Scriptures that have already been fulfilled.

I can't believe I'm wasting my time trying to explain this to someone who thinks Christ already came and we already had the 1,000 year reign on earth.

I am sure we both agree that Christ came was crucified, died and was resurrected. The problem arises because you (like the Jews at the time of the crucifixion) are blinded by your doctrine that makes you think Christ’s kingdom is an earthly kingdom instead of a spiritual kingdom. Isn’t it time you realize Christ’s kingdom has already come?
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Col1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
As the above verses demonstrate Christ has been reigning for quite some time (at least 1900 years if John was in it). I am sorry you fail to recognize that as a believer you too are in Christ’s kingdom!

As you are misled friend...

Don’t worry you wont mislead me, I can see right through the Scripturally bankrupt doctrine of men you espouse that is evolved from the antireformation writings of the Jesuit priest Ribera you so desparately cling to. If you want to be mislead by a doctrine evolved from the antireformation writings of the Jesuit priest Ribera then by all means, as you are led friend, as you are led!

 

[doulos]

A new temple will most likely be built. This doesn't mean God approves of it as He certainly won't approve of the sacrifices. But the new temple will be built to God by His people so it can be desecrated and God would be angry, I would think. Considering who we know will be behind the abomination, God will be doubly angry. Considering who or what will be there claiming to be His son, I would think would make Him furious, whether He approves of the temple or not. But this is conjecture on my part although it does seem to be what we see foretold.

Do you think God wants you to stand up and defend what you yourself admit is nothing more then conjecture? Or do you think He would prefer we search for the truth? And then teach that truth instead of your false conjecture?

 

[Saved_Forever]

The evidence that there will be a third temple is pretty compelling. A read of the millennium era in Ezek 40-48 makes it pretty obvious. The number "3" represents divine perfection. You have 3 earth ages, you have a trinity, you have three states of matter (liquid, solid, gas), you have three elements of time (past, present, future), three attributes of God (omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence), Jesus was dead 3 days, Jonah spent 3 days in the belly of the fish, there are 3 theological virtues (faith, hope and charity), There were three Patriarchs of the children of Israel (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) etc...

But if there is not to be a third temple and all prophetic references to the temple are symbolic then the Gentiles would merely be trampling around in Jerusalem. But I reject that notion because it makes no sense. Paul says there will be a temple in 2 Thes 2:4.

I believe we will see a new temple as part of the 7 year peace accord that John Kerry is currently negotiating between Israel and the Palestinians. I believe this covenant will be reached sometime next year and that will begin the 7 year tribulation period. At the mid point, the A/C will be revealed in the Temple (or Holy Place for you doubters) then the Great Tribulation will begin.

Once again. If you're wrong? What will you do then? How long must it be for you to realize it won't happen?

How will you re-interpret Scriptures?

 

[doulos]

Once again. If you're wrong? What will you do then? How long must it be for you to realize it won't happen?

How will you re-interpret Scriptures?

I wouldn’t worry too much about how he will try to re interpret Scripture when he realizes he is wrong. After all if he stands by his doctrine until the second coming it will be a little late to attempt to reinterpret Scripture. My fear when it comes to the false doctrines of the futurists is that when Christ does return (and He will) they will be so intent on focusing on their boogeyman antichrist coming first that they will be so decieved by that deception they might then believe Christ is their ficticous endtime boogeyman. I truly fear those decieved by the ficticous futurists doctrine will be standing there saying look it’s the antichrist coming on the clouds with lying signs and wonders attempting to decieve us into believing He is Christ. Unfortunately at that point it will be to late. I sure would not want to be on bended knee in front of Christ trying to explain how they were decieved into believing Christ was their boogeyman antichrist. I wonder what verse they will use then to justify their beliefs.

 

[Saved_Forever]

Revelation is widely considered to have been written around AD 90-95. Thus, John was speaking of a new temple. John was not speaking of Christian hearts as you don't measure them, nor the alter, nor those who worship there.

Why not? Can you measure your faith you have in your heart (which is the true temple of God)? If you can't, well...

Matt 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Matt 7:16-20
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

This is what we call measuring the temple of God. You CANNOT measure a building except for dimensions. This is NOT what Rev 11:1 is talking about!! It is in reality measuring the souls of the people who are the temple of God, as to where their heart stands. God could care less about a brick temple. That means NOTHING to God. You, as the temple of God means a whole bunch more to God than you think!

Suppose you felt either you are better than God or worse yet, that there is no God. Who sits in your personal temple which is your body? YOU DO!!! Notice the highlighted word called SITS.

2 Thes 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself (that's you, me or any other person. In other words, it can be anybody on the face of the earth at any time in history!) above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he (That's you again.) as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

So, in this case, you say there is no God and testify to yourself that you will hold that position. This is no singular person that's going to rule the entire world or whatever! This is only one person claiming that he, himself controls he himself! If I were in that position, I would say to myself, "I don't need no stinking God telling ME what to do!" So, I kick God out of my life, take His seat that is rightfully His, and I sit in HIS seat calling MYSELF God!!

I too, don't know why I take the time to explain basic Scripture to you especially when you have already made up your mind and even if Jesus Himself were to tell you, I feel you still wouldn't believe.

I hope you listen and ponder as well as study this approach rather than what most people do and that is trash can it.

 

[Saved_Forever]

I wouldn’t worry too much about how he will try to re interpret Scripture when he realizes he is wrong. After all if he stands by his doctrine until the second coming it will be a little late to attempt to reinterpret Scripture. My fear when it comes to the false doctrines of the futurists is that when Christ does return (and He will) they will be so intent on focusing on their boogeyman antichrist coming first that they will be so decieved by that deception they might then believe Christ is their ficticous endtime boogeyman. I truly fear those decieved by the ficticous futurists doctrine will be standing there saying look it’s the antichrist coming on the clouds with lying signs and wonders attempting to decieve us into believing He is Christ. Unfortunately at that point it will be to late. I sure would not want to be on bended knee in front of Christ trying to explain how they were decieved into believing Christ was their boogeyman antichrist. I wonder what verse they will use then to justify their beliefs.

Yes, that is when all people like him will realize it when it's too late! Doesn't mean that he isn't saved though!

The real problem is that people read the Bible with humanistic eyes rather than spiritual eyes! I know because I did it too and I know you did it as well! We need to learn how to read it more carefully!

 

[GRA]

Revelation 6:

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

PlainWord:

In the context of this passage of scripture -- don't you think that this is referring to ALL of the 'Wrath of God' ?

 

[PlainWord]

doulos,

I have shown you where Scripture tells us the temple of God is numerous times, hopefully you will take the time to read and understand the following verses this time.

Not in this instance. I get that we are the temple of God, but that isn't what Paul is describing here.

so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Paul is talking about a literal place here, something that can be seen. While Jesus didn't use the word, "temple" He did say Holy Place and made clear it would be an event seen by the Jews. This is evident by the command He gave to flee. Thus the use of "holy place" as Jesus calls it or "temple" as Paul calls it will be a visible place and a literal entity claiming to be God will be there. I've considered your arguments and was not compelled by them.

Christ doesn’t say temple of God in this verse. If Christ meant the temple of God then why didn’t He say temple of God? Is the temple of God the only holy place there is?

Of course not. But Paul did call it the temple of God and John also saw a temple in Revelation. The fact that he was told to measure it lends credibility that it will be a literal temple. The Temple, or even the Temple Mount is not a big enough place for an entire conquering army to occupy. I see the Gentiles occupying Jerusalem and the temple mount area. I have been there, have you?

then clearly John was shown the temple that was destroyed in 70AD so that he would know where the court that was given to the Gentiles.

No, this is a future event, thus a future temple John saw, not the temple that was destroyed in AD 70. Rev 11 discussing the temple then immediately the two witnesses. The witnesses are of the future, thus the whole passage is of the future. There would be no need to measure the court outside of a destroyed temple for the Gentiles.

Don’t let your anger strengthen your resolve to stand by the doctrine you have been taught, instead focus on studying the Scriptures to rightly divide the word of truth. I suspect God is more interested in you searching for truth then He is in your ability to defend a doctrine that has been proven false. I have no problem with God’s Word so I have no need to take it up with Him. I do have a problem with your gross misrepresentation of God’s Word just so you can forcefit Scripture to your doctrine. Our job is not to force fit the Scriptures to our doctrine, but instead to study to shew ourselves approved rightly dividing the word of truth! So I will take it up with you!

Who is calling who angry? I think you are force fitting. And you've proved nothing, at least not to me.

many people (like you, you are not alone) are still looking to the future for the fulfillment of Scriptures that have already been fulfilled.

Many people like you minimize prophesy by claiming it has been fulfilled. You can fall into that trap if you want to.

Isn’t it time you realize Christ’s kingdom has already come?

His millennial kingdom has not come yet. Do you think it has? Are you in your spiritual body?

You go ahead and believe what you want. You are free to call me whatever name you want. I am not in competition with you. I don't care what you think or believe. You think I'm wrong, I think you are wrong. Neither of us is likely going to change the mind of the other. Therefore I don't feel like it is beneficial to either of us to continue this debate.

 

[PlainWord]

Once again. If you're wrong? What will you do then? How long must it be for you to realize it won't happen?

How will you re-interpret Scriptures?

How will you re-interpret if you are wrong? We can go around like this forever.

 

[PlainWord]

Revelation 6:

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

PlainWord:

In the context of this passage of scripture -- don't you think that this is referring to ALL of the 'Wrath of God' ?

Depends on what you see as God's wrath. The way I read it, God's wrath are the Bowls which are poured out as vengeance for Satan's trumpets 1-6. Trumpets 1-5 are not literal, they describe Satan's establishment of his One World Geo-Political Government and deception of mankind. Trumpet 6 is the slaughter of all Christians who fall for Satan. Bowls 1-6 are direct retaliation for Trumpets 1-6 poured out in double measure.

If you consider that Christ said it will be like the days of Noah prior to His return, we have to think the world will be seemingly calm. Therefore there will not be literal stars and mountains being thrown to earth. The trumpet and bowl events are not described elsewhere and since Revelation is full of imagery, we should assume that the 1-5 trumpet and bowl events are spiritual.

The killing of 1/3 of the world is real as it is described in Isaiah 65. But it has to be seen as "normal." Therefore I believe this event (Trump 6) is a fake rapture where Satan somehow kills and disposes of over 2 billion bodies. I realize this sounds completely impossible or even crazy, but I think the Rapture lie IS Satan's great deception that we are warned about and will be the main vehicle for Satan to use to fool the world into thinking he is the Christ. The US is the largest Christian nation as a % of population, so this event will render us impotent and irrelevant during the final days. Keep in mind that it isn't necessary to be a "good" Christian worthy of being "Raptured," it is only necessary to "believe" in the Rapture and to voluntarily go, when the "Hour of Temptation" occurs.

God destroys the Beast and his kingdom and all of Satan's lies with Bowls 1-5, apparently in one day as we are told in Rev 18:8. I believe it is done with TRUTH. Satan uses lies, God uses truth.

The Lord returns for Armageddon, the gathering of which takes place at the 6th Bowl. Consider the events of the 6th Seal. Consider the "timing" of "Late Figs." Correlate this description to what Jesus says about the Fig Tree in Mat 24. The timing is late summer or harvest time. It agrees with the angel with the sickle "harvesting the earth." The timing seems to be the Feast of Trumpets which is Rosh Hashanah which is typically September. I believe the 7th trumpet will occur during this feast week. Consider the 5th trumpet locusts. Locusts typically come for 5 months, May to September. Therefore I believe the Locusts plague of Satan to be a period of intense satanic "teaching" or tempting where he is doing miracles and making bold statements for 5 months which lead up to his main event - the Rapture.

The 6th seal participants are everyone left -

the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man,

Look at who the Lord destroys when He returns in Rev 19:17-18:

..."Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great."

When the Lord returns, He "gathers" His remnant to Him. The 144K and those remaining who are His receive their glorified bodies and do battle with the Lord. He then proceeds to destroy His enemies at Armageddon and establishes His 1,000 year reign.

 

[Saved_Forever]

How will you re-interpret if you are wrong? We can go around like this forever.

One day you will be in that boat. You will need to re-evaluate your decision you made.

Why can't you sit back and thoroughly study what we have said? You won't because in your mind, you are always right. Therefore, doulos and myself are wrong.

Let me tell you something. I once believed just about everything you believe in. Why is this not the case anymore? I don't believe anything you say on this subject matter. It is because I chose NOT to become stagnate in what I once believed. I knew I could be VERY WRONG and willing to change my position.

Problem is, you won't go that far. You're right and that's that. You are making Scripture fit YOUR DOCTRINE!!! Yes, that is exactly what you are doing yet you fail to realize that simple point because you don't even know you're doing it. You will deny this point but I see right through you.

Go out and be bold and say to yourself, I may be dead wrong and I want to learn more. Go humble yourself and leave that foxhole you made camp in and explore other ideas openly. That's the ONLY way you will learn and grow spiritually. Choose not to and you will continue to be stuck in your rut.

 

[PlainWord]

One day you will be in that boat. You will need to re-evaluate your decision you made.

Why can't you sit back and thoroughly study what we have said? You won't because in your mind, you are always right. Therefore, doulos and myself are wrong.

Let me tell you something. I once believed just about everything you believe in. Why is this not the case anymore? I don't believe anything you say on this subject matter. It is because I chose NOT to become stagnate in what I once believed. I knew I could be VERY WRONG and willing to change my position.

Problem is, you won't go that far. You're right and that's that. You are making Scripture fit YOUR DOCTRINE!!! Yes, that is exactly what you are doing yet you fail to realize that simple point because you don't even know you're doing it. You will deny this point but I see right through you.

Go out and be bold and say to yourself, I may be dead wrong and I want to learn more. Go humble yourself and leave that foxhole you made camp in and explore other ideas openly. That's the ONLY way you will learn and grow spiritually. Choose not to and you will continue to be stuck in your rut.

I have considered your beliefs and found them lacking. That is why I do not drink your Kool Aide. I doubt very seriously that you once believed as I do. I used to think the Rapture was real when I was younger. Then I read the Bible and couldn't find one rapture teaching. I see the Lord returning and gathering His remnant, those who survived the Tribulation, but no Rapture.

In my studies I saw that the Great Multitude in Heaven who came out of the Great Tribulation are indeed slaughtered Christians who fell for Satan's lie. I am not aware of anyone who teaches this or anyone before me who see this for what it is. I posted this idea on another site and it went viral. I am not taking credit for it as God deserves any credit due. The point is, the Rapture doctrine is harmful, it will cost untold millions their lives and great embarrassment in heaven. I am on a mission to do as much harm to the Rapture lie as I can. It is my spiritual calling, so to speak.

What is the main point you feel I have not considered regarding your views? Let's discuss it, the main point only. I want to see what it is exactly that has you are riled up.

 

[GRA]

For some reason, it seems really difficult to keep this thread on topic...

 

[GRA]

I find it curious that you want to spiritualize the 3rd temple but treat the "being led away captive" literally.

I'm not sure that I would put it in those words; however, if I understand you correctly --- "things are what they are"...

 

[GRA]

At what point in the future - between now and Armageddon - could the Jews possibly be "led away captive into all nations" - but then be "back in the land" in time for Armageddon? ( And, of course, match all related biblical prophecy. ) Anyone?

( And, of course, match all related biblical prophecy. )