Why does the Law cause contention among professing Christians?

[just-me]

There just may not be any help for you or for me in the eyes of these people who speak for Yahweh. I do believe if we resist temptation from the enemy this would be considered works by these very well informed ones because resisting the enemy amounts to not sinning and sin finds its power in the law, so resisting will be taken as my obeying the LAW. This is a dilema..

You heathen you!!! You have been worked into a corner with no escape. You are lawless because you have the law in your heart. Wait!!! You are lawless because you have a carnal desire for the law. Wait!!!! You have the law in your heart, and that's falling from grace. Wait!!! OH never mind. Confusion is not of God. Who did this to us anyway?????

 

[just-me]

Paul seems to be quoted a great deal here. But I was wondering what you all thought about Paul and Jesus answer to basically the same question 'What must I do to be saved?" Because each give quite remarkably different answers. Paul in Acts 16:30-31 answers believe on the lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved and thy house. However Jesus in Matthew 19:16-19; Mark 10:17-19; and Luke 18:19-20; answered the inquirer by saying obedience to the laws of Moses, in order to obtain salvation.

I think I might be able to help if you want. For starters, Paul was answering the jailer according to being saved from the powers that be, for he would be seen as not doing his job. That would have been the death penalty for sure. The Higher power of God would save them from that by circumstance of events the next morning. Acts 16:35-36 (KJV)
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And when it was day, the magistrates sent the serjeants, saying, Let those men go.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]And the keeper of the prison told this saying to Paul, The magistrates have sent to let you go: now therefore depart, and go in peace.

Your second question can be answered by understanding the Levitical laws of sacrifice. One can consider the goat, and then take this verse into account.

Romans 12:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

I am looking forward to discussing this more with you if you care to. God Bless my friend.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Paul seems to be quoted a great deal here. But I was wondering what you all thought about Paul and Jesus answer to basically the same question 'What must I do to be saved?" Because each give quite remarkably different answers. Paul in Acts 16:30-31 answers believe on the lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved and thy house. However Jesus in Matthew 19:16-19; Mark 10:17-19; and Luke 18:19-20; answered the inquirer by saying obedience to the laws of Moses, in order to obtain salvation.

Jesus said different things at different times. To those by the Sea of Galilee who asked what they needed to do to do the works of GOD, he didn't say follow the laws of Moses, but to believe into the one whom GOD sent, i.e., Jesus. This is supported by the new covenant writers, most specifically Paul and John, the disciple who probably knew Jesus the best.

Why his message was radically different to the rich young ruller, we can only guess. However, we do know that it doesn't jive with the rest of what's written in the NT. It is possible that the rich young ruler dressed in a manner that let Jesus know the man was zealous for the law. Thus his question,' Why are you asking me? You know what's in the law.' But when the young man insisted that he had kept the law, Jesus gently let him know that perfection wasn't through following the law, but through following Christ - 'Come, follow me.'

 

[Least]

In most of these passages, believers in Jesus are being addressed. If these are not important, there would have been no reason to speak of them, but the entire message would have been on faith alone, there would be no mention of obedience.

Each of these passages mention different parts of the Law.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

What? You shall not steal, you shall not covet...commandments? There are many more commandments listed in the NT.

Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
Ephesians 6:3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

1 Peter 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Ephesians 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Luke 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

 

[Least]

Jesus said different things at different times. To those by the Sea of Galilee who asked what they needed to do to do the works of GOD, he didn't say follow the laws of Moses, but to believe into the one whom GOD sent, i.e., Jesus. This is supported by the new covenant writers, most specifically Paul and John, the disciple who probably knew Jesus the best.

Why his message was radically different to the rich young ruller, we can only guess. However, we do know that it doesn't jive with the rest of what's written in the NT. It is possible that the rich young ruler dressed in a manner that let Jesus know the man was zealous for the law. Thus his question,' Why are you asking me? You know what's in the law.' But when the young man insisted that he had kept the law, Jesus gently let him know that perfection wasn't through following the law, but through following Christ - 'Come, follow me.'

Read further on in the chapter about the rich young ruler.

Luke 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
Luke 18:21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Jesus knew his heart and called him on it.

Luke 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
Luke 18:24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
Luke 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Covetousness

 

[Selihah]

Jesus said different things at different times. To those by the Sea of Galilee who asked what they needed to do to do the works of GOD, he didn't say follow the laws of Moses, but to believe into the one whom GOD sent, i.e., Jesus. This is supported by the new covenant writers, most specifically Paul and John, the disciple who probably knew Jesus the best.

Why his message was radically different to the rich young ruller, we can only guess. However, we do know that it doesn't jive with the rest of what's written in the NT. It is possible that the rich young ruler dressed in a manner that let Jesus know the man was zealous for the law. Thus his question,' Why are you asking me? You know what's in the law.' But when the young man insisted that he had kept the law, Jesus gently let him know that perfection wasn't through following the law, but through following Christ - 'Come, follow me.'

You said: "he didn't say follow the laws of Moses,". But according to my feeble mind and it's understanding of the english language, that's exactly what Jesus said. I even gave chapter and verse.

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he (Jesus) said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. - Matthew 19:16-19.

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. - Mark 10:17-19.

I must object to what Jesus said afterwards. Because Jesus I believe, added to the Torah by placing an incredible burden upon this man when Jesus demanded that he sell everything he had. You see according to Torah God asks only for a tenth of your earnings for specific purposes. Jesus on the other hand demanded the man sell everything he owned. Now being your eternal soul is at stake who are you going to listen too Jesus or Moses? Let me know when you sell everything you own.

And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. - Luke 18:19-20

Again I must object, Jesus adds to the Torah expecting this man to sell everything he has that he might have eternal life. Moses already expected us to care for the poor that much I think we could agree on but nowhere did Moses say to sell everything you have to do so.

Have you sold everything you own yet so you too can have eternal life? Or do you still according to Jesus's teaching covet your possessions thereby excluding yourself from eternal life?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You aren't going to like my answer. Faith without works is dead, and works without faith is dead.

Faith without works of faith is dead. Works of faith are not works of law. You just made up the term 'works without faith'. That's just another name for works of law.

If you don't you have any intelligent instructions from the Mosaic law, how are you able to lead others to Christ as you were led.

I was convicted by the spirit when I got saved. I knew nothing about the law.

Now that you have faith you are legitimate to chuck the works thing. Your choice, not mine.

I don't have to do anything. GOD says I'm dead to the law in his eyes, yet alive to the spirit. I've made my choice.

Chasing law that can never make you like GOD, or possessing GOD's very nature through faith. Your choice, not mine.

 

[just-me]

Selihah. I see that you name means “agreeable.” That’s nice, if we agree with G-d’s Word.

I like Devarim 30, I see it is your favorite, and you probably know, we in the US have the English Bible, and we call that the book of Deuteronomy. It is definitely a blessed promise from our Lord. I am so happy that 1 year after I was born, Israel was accepted as an independent state, and now is a sovereign country. G-d has given his promise, and all His promises come true in everything.

These are some comparisons Devarim 30. I like to compare G-d's Word with other parts of His Word.

Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Matthew 22:37 (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
Romans 10:6-9 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Deuteronomy 30:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
Matthew 19:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Deuteronomy 30:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Luke 12:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
John 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You said: "he didn't say follow the laws of Moses,". But according to my feeble mind and it's understanding of the english language, that's exactly what Jesus said. I even gave chapter and verse.

Then your mind must be pretty feeble, because he said 'if you want to be perfect, follow me'. Jesus is not the law.

Regarding your tithe comment, GOD never asked or commanded a tenth of one's earnings. That is the modern day tithe-lie that claims the tithe was an income tax. GOD commanded the tenth of agricultural increase. Money was not allowed in tithing.

Have you sold everything you own yet so you too can have eternal life? Or do you still according to Jesus's teaching covet your possessions thereby excluding yourself from eternal life?

That's actually what I did when I got saved.

 

[2Tim3vs16]

When I read the scriptures at Matt 5:18; Rom 7:12-14, it appears that what Jesus and Paul are saying is that the Law itself is good and nothing is wrong about it. Jesus says at Matt 5:17 that he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. The theme of the law was to prepare the Jews so they would recognize Christ when he fulfilled the prophesies. Some of the traditions were no longer required and Christ warned the religious leaders not to be burdening the people with traditions, however the principles of God's Law were still good and followers were to continue practicing in harmony with that fact. There were all sorts of little ceremonial practices that the Jews had to observe in a "Just so" kind of way. The fact that we no longer have special meal preparations and animal sacrifice requirements is just a couple of differences. (Animal sacrifices are no longer needed because Christ was the perfect human exchange for Adams lost human perfection , the final sacrifice made on behalf of all mankind's sin.) But we still abstain from things like theft, lying, immoral sex, coveting, we're supposed to marry in the faith, etc., these and other issues that were discussed among the congregations thru letters, after Christs death. If you'd like I'll try to find a couple of examples where the apostles instructed congregations to continue observing certain aspects of the law because they were part of a larger picture.

I imagine that according to God's own plan, he is giving us a little at a time and nurturing us as time develops the spiritual issues at hand. We can barely handle, the concept of "prophesy" and "fulfillment" as it applies to our short history and the near future. Can you imagine if God tried to tell us about the more distant future or spiritual details that our fleshly brains can not begin to fathom? God's not just the Grand Creator, but also the Grand instructor. He gave his children a set of guidelines to live up to until his plan to send his son was complete (Hebrew). His son gave us heads-up what to expect from the world in the near future and how to handle it. He taught how we are to live until God's plan for the entire earth is complete (Greek). He knows our intellectual limitations. We don't teach our own children about paying rent when they graduate kindergarten. The same way, he gives us what we can handle in stages. The Mosaic Law was like the first stage for mankind's progression to remedy the chaos that Satan started.

That's the easiest way I can think of to explain it.

 

[Selihah]

Then your mind must be pretty feeble, because he said 'if you want to be perfect, follow me'. Jesus is not the law.

Regarding your tithe comment, GOD never asked or commanded a tenth of one's earnings. That is the modern day tithe-lie that claims the tithe was an income tax. GOD commanded the tenth of agricultural increase. Money was not allowed in tithing.



That's actually what I did when I got saved.

OK so my mind is feeble. But where can I find this young man/ruler asking "what must I do to be perfect?" The question he asked, as recorded by three different people i.e. Matthew, Mark and Luke, was "What good thing must I do that I might have eternal life?" Jesus told him obey the commandments. My only objection to what Jesus said was when he placed the additional burden that this young man/ruler sell everything he own and follow him (Jesus) in order that he might be perfect.

Earnings: to reap, gather, amass. Could be sheep, goats, grain, or money.

 

[haz]

Have you sold everything you own yet so you too can have eternal life? Or do you still according to Jesus's teaching covet your possessions thereby excluding yourself from eternal life?

Hi Selihah,

Have you left your house, brothers, sisters, father, mother, wife, children, lands for Christ?

Matt 19:29
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

As for Matt 19:16-19, Jesus spoke of obedience to the law because he had not yet gone to the cross.

Consider also Matt 5:19
Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus kept the law perfectly and he taught the law. He is called great in the kingdom of heaven.
No one else has achieved this.

And under grace we who believe are in Christ. We are covered by his righteousness, holiness, perfection.

Have you always kept the law perfectly just like Jesus?
If not then you are lost if you think that obedience to the law is required for salvation.

Believe on Jesus instead of seeking righteousness by works of the law.

You cannot even mix grace with works of the law. That is being lukewarm, Rev 3:16.

Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

OK so my mind is feeble. But where can I find this young man/ruler asking "what must I do to be perfect?" The question he asked, as recorded by three different people i.e. Matthew, Mark and Luke, was "What good thing must I do that I might have eternal life?" Jesus told him obey the commandments. My only objection to what Jesus said was when he placed the additional burden that this young man/ruler sell everything he own and follow him (Jesus) in order that he might be perfect.

Earnings: to reap, gather, amass. Could be sheep, goats, grain, or money.

We still have to obey GOD's copmmandments: repent and believe into the son of GOD, and love one's neighbor as one's self. When Jesus spoke those words to the rich ruler, the new covenant was not in existence.

The tithe was never money. Not permitted unless one wanted to redeem something for item's worth + 20% penalty.

 

[Selihah]

Hi just-me. Deuteronomy 30, ahhhhh I love the whole chapter. Many on the wide road say torah cannot be done that it's unattainable, too hard, etc, etc. But chapter 30 makes it quite clear that it has absolutely nothing to do with ones abilities or lack thereof. Rather God equates it with loving him and makes it an issue of free will. Choose to be obedient and have life. Choose to to forsake His ways there is death.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Hi just-me. Deuteronomy 30, ahhhhh I love the whole chapter. Many on the wide road say torah cannot be done that it's unattainable, too hard, etc, etc. But chapter 30 makes it quite clear that it has absolutely nothing to do with ones abilities or lack thereof. Rather God equates it with loving him and makes it an issue of free will. Choose to be obedient and have life. Choose to to forsake His ways there is death.

Yet Peter, who was most definitely on the narrow way, said of the law of Moses:

So now why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? Acts 15:10​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But chapter 30 makes it quite clear that it has absolutely nothing to do with ones abilities or lack thereof. Rather God equates it with loving him and makes it an issue of free will. Choose to be obedient and have life. Choose to to forsake His ways there is death.

Moses was obviously talking about the righteousness of faith (not law) in Chapter 30.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. Deuteronomy 30:10-14

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:6-10​

 

[just-me]

Hi just-me. Deuteronomy 30, ahhhhh I love the whole chapter. Many on the wide road say torah cannot be done that it's unattainable, too hard, etc, etc. But chapter 30 makes it quite clear that it has absolutely nothing to do with ones abilities or lack thereof. Rather God equates it with loving him and makes it an issue of free will. Choose to be obedient and have life. Choose to to forsake His ways there is death.

Thanks man. We have something in common. I take it that you are not a believer that Jesus of the New Testament is the true Messiah foretold by the Prophets? The Old Testament, as I call it, is so very enlightening to my wife and I. Anyway, I look very forward to conversing with you more. Last year both of us, for a short time, conversed with 2 rabbis in Jerusalem. It was very rewarding, and they had much to say that was very enlightening. Just so that you know exactly where I stand with the Word of God, I believe, and it has been proven in my heart that Jesus is the true Messiah prophesied in what we know as the Old Testament. Further, all that He taught before His death is proven to also be Old Testament. I do hope that we can communicate in the future, with the Word of God being the foundation of our conversations. May God Bless you in all wisdom, and peace. Jerusalem=City of peace! I love that

 

[Linda70]

Not sure if anybody posted these verses about the purpose of the Law:

1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
1 Timothy 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1 Timothy 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1 Timothy 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

If you still do not understand that the commandments on good and moral behavior will always be there to exercise, I am afraid come the Kingdom you are going to be in for an enormous surprise.

OK, I will not say obey the commandments, but you must resist temptation. You cannot do this without obeying the commandments. Go ahead, say Paul is wrong. Say resisting temptation is not being obedient to Yahweh, but I tell you that is a lie, and we know who the Father of lies is. Stop listening to the enemy, listen to Yeshua, please.

I think what you are saying, is that Jesus' commandments supersede Moses' (i.e. new covenant replaces old). For example, Jesus said:

Matthew 5:21 - 22 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

And:

Matthew 5:27 - 28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[Selihah]

Hello Haz,

Im not christian so having to sell everything I own or watch my family torn apart because I believe in a human sacrifice is not a concern for me.

You see I have a God thank you very much. My God loves me more than it is possible for any other entity to love me. Every breath that I take is a kiss from my God. Every one of my heartbeats is a personal caress from Him. You see; it was He who designed my body and soul and it is He who sustains them every second. It was my God who brought every iota of existence into being. He loved me before I existed. And it is only His love that allows existence to continue to exist. My God is a forgiving God. When I fall short, and that happens all the time, all I need to do is to open my heart to the One who created my heart. I know that He loves me and hears my prayer; I know that He listens even before I talk and I know that he forgives my sins.

I can’t ask for a better God, a more loving God or for a closer God. All goodness, all kindness, all holiness, all truth and all love reside in Him and in Him alone. There is nothing that I lack with my God.

I already have a Messiah too. His name is David. God anointed him through the prophet Samuel so that makes him a “Messiah”; an anointed one. I couldn’t ask for a better king. He laid out his entire heart for me in the book of Psalms. In these songs he shows me how a subject of God ought to live. In David’s life and in the words of his song he leads me in submission to my God. My king takes the simple truth of life and shows me how it is the deepest song of my heart. The straightforward fact that God is the Master of all becomes an incredible journey on the strings of my king’s harp. And it is on this journey that I want to live my life and it is on this journey that I want to spend eternity.

All of the righteous descendants of David passed on his torch. God promised that it is the dynasty of David which will retain the position of the leader of men. And it is to this dynasty that I pledged my heart. David lived his life in awe and appreciation of God’s sovereignty and he taught us to do the same. His descendant that will rightfully occupy his throne will further that cause and bring it to all of the nations. The man who directed all attention to himself and used the “glory of the Father” as an empty catch-phrase is the very antithesis of David and his dynasty.

When the long awaited for descendant of David appears he will not need a new pledge of loyalty from my community because we have already pledged our allegiance to the crown of David. And as David before him, he will not try to stand between me and my God. Instead he will stand where my King stands today; that is, right beside me facing God.

I have a Law from my God. It is a perfect and just law (Psalm 19; 119). It teaches me right from wrong and it is the light of my life.

Now you want me to place a Greek book right there alongside the teaching of my God. I cannot do this.

The book that you hold runs contrary to the word of God in so many different ways. Your book completely ignores the national relationship that my nation shares with God. Your book shows a disdain for the laws of my God and utter contempt for His first born. Your book contains some teachings that are simply not right according to the sense of justice that God planted in all of our hearts.

In the book of John Jesus teaches that those who reject him do so out of their hatred for light while those who accept him are lovers of light (John 3:19-21). In the same book Jesus goes on to say that those who don’t believe him are “of the devil” while those who are “of God” hear his words (John 8:44-47). The obvious implication is that acceptance of Jesus is some sort of litmus test to see whether one loves the light and is of God or if one hates the light and is of the devil.

Let us step back for a minute. Is it morally correct to accept the claims for the divinity of a man before he has proven himself? Even Christian theology which allows for a man to be divine would still not have us simply accepting anyone’s claims for divinity. Christianity acknowledges that if Jesus’ claims conflicted with the Jewish Scriptures then the Jewish people were duty-bound to reject him. The morally correct approach to Jesus’ claims, even according to Christian theology, ought to be an approach of caution and skepticism.

But John’s Jesus completely ignores this truth. He ignores the fact that his audience was obligated by the word of God that they had already received to greet his claims with skepticism (if not outright rejection). Instead he applies a manipulative tactic. “If you don’t believe in me then you must be a rotten apple from the beginning.” Who benefits from this teaching? The ones who don’t believe in him don’t care for his evaluation of their spiritual ancestry. Those who do believe in him don’t need this teaching. It is to those who are on the fence that this teaching is directed. This is an effort to get them to make a decision on the basis of not wanting to be seen as “wicked” by Jesus or by those who believe in his words.

Is this a reason to believe in Jesus? Even according to Christian theology is it right for a person to accept Jesus so as to “prove” that he was a “child of light” all along? In any case the historical ramification of this teaching was that the followers of Jesus redefined their view of humanity in a very negative way. For many dark centuries the believers of John’s Jesus defined the goodness of man, not by the practice of justice or mercy, but by belief in Jesus or lack thereof and their pogroms.