The Dangers of the Hebrew Roots Messianic Movement

[zone]

Well it's clear that Christ has received the kingdom; so it does exist. And it's clear that we are part of that kingdom; so it does exist on earth. And it's also clear that it hasn't come in its fullness and power yet. So it's in a state of progression.

what kind of power are we looking for?
Jesus and the christians fighting and killing to take this hill or that?

or :

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

1 Corinthians 2:4
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power

1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

what kind of power are we looking for?
Jesus and the christians fighting and killing to take this hill or that?

or :

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
1 Corinthians 2:4
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power
1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power.

The gospel is certainly the power of GOD unto salvation. However, it is said that his kingdom will irremediably crush and destroy the kingdoms of this world. That has not happened yet. And the scriptures do indicate that his people will be (are) involved with this process of establishing his kingdom on earth.

You believe in a kingdom in heaven, not a kingdom of heaven.

 

[Hizikyah]

The gospel is certainly the power of GOD unto salvation. However, it is said that his kingdom will irremediably crush and destroy the kingdoms of this world. That has not happened yet. And the scriptures do indicate that his people will be (are) involved with this process of establishing his kingdom on earth.

You believe in a kingdom in heaven, not a kingdom of heaven.

The false doctrine of all 70 weeks already fulfilled was created to have the pope reign as "vicar of christ". LIES! Put a "anti" in there and thats more accurate...

And you pointing out that all the kingdoms of man being destroyed has not happened yet is proof all has not been fulfilled. Yet...

Praise Yahweh, as surely as Yahweh lives His word is true and His kingdom will be EXACTLY as He states it will be!

 

[zone]

The gospel is certainly the power of GOD unto salvation. However, it is said that his kingdom will irremediably crush and destroy the kingdoms of this world. That has not happened yet. And the scriptures do indicate that his people will be (are) involved with this process of establishing his kingdom on earth.

You believe in a kingdom in heaven, not a kingdom of heaven.

Daniel 2
Daniel Interprets the Dream
43"And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay, they will combine with one another in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery. 44"In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever. 45"Inasmuch as you saw that a stone was cut out of the mountain without hands and that it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold, the great God has made known to the king what will take place in the future; so the dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy."

this happened in Christ's day; and the church outlived the Roman Empire. it imploded from within.

the church (jewish-christians) the stone cut without hands out of the Mountain Israel (Christ the Cornerstone) HID right in the heart of the apostate mountain Israel, in the midst of the Iron Roman Beast....because the romans initially thought the christians were just a sect of Judaism - which was THE ONLY religion they had allowed to be observed in their empire...

...until the roman-jewish wars ended with the destruction of BOTH. the rebellion of the apostate jews finally brought the wrath of God upon them...through the agent of Titus and his armies.

but the church survived and has become a great mountain, filling the whole earth.

And the scriptures do indicate that his people will be (are) involved with this process of establishing his kingdom on earth

how does a lost rebellious sinner enter the Kingdom?
the gospel, right?

You believe in a kingdom in heaven, not a kingdom of heaven.

huh?

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

is Jesus not King and Lord of Heaven and earth?
He is on David's Throne NOW.

His enemies are being made His footstool....how?
the Law & Gospel.

ppl either get saved and become citizens of the eternal kingdom or they don't.

Matthew 21:44
Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed."

the crushing of Kingdoms isn't (YET) total destruction and damnation! He wants men SAVED.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

this happened in Christ's day; and the church outlived the Roman Empire. it imploded from within.
...
but the church survived and has become a great mountain, filling the whole earth.

Not really. Not yet. The knowledge of GOD does, in a sense, fill the earth, but not really. And the kingdom that now exists, and is emerging, is far greater than the Roman, and any of the other empires that existed. That kingdom has yet to be destroyed.

huh?

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

is Jesus not King and Lord of Heaven and earth?
He is on David's Throne NOW.

His enemies are being made His footstool....how?
the Law & Gospel.

ppl either get saved and become citizens of the eternal kingdom or they don't.

Matthew 21:44
Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed."

the crushing of Kingdoms isn't (YET) total destruction and damnation! He wants men SAVED.

But as I understand your belief, you don't believe in an eternal kingdom of GOD on earth; just in heaven.

 

[loveme1]

The Messiah in His Testimony told us who we should fear.

The Messiah taught us to make our Foundation on His words.

Getting carried away with doctrines of men brings danger, whether it be through the Hebrew Root or by the Jehovah Witnesses...



If a man tells you to be circumcised to be saved, ask him what it profits?

Since we are all one whether circumcised or uncircumcised through Faith in Yahshua the Messiah.

Galatians 5

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

There is danger in entangling ourselves with the law of Moses, and if the Hebrew Root movement is attempting to entangle then ask yourselves are you able to keep the whole law?

Friends the Messiah gives us a New Testament.

Faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 3

3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

What do the Children of God Keep?

1 John 5

5 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Let use our liberty to love and obey, to serve in Spirit and Truth.

 

[zone]

Not really. Not yet. The knowledge of GOD does, in a sense, fill the earth, but not really. And the kingdom that now exists, and is emerging, is far greater than the Roman, and any of the other empires that existed. That kingdom has yet to be destroyed.

i believe Daniel 2.
Jesus was born king.
Herod and the Caesars fought Him, but He and His church outlasted them, and will last forever.
people are still being SAVED...while enemies are being subdued and ultimately they will be destroyed.

Daniel 2
Daniel Interprets the Dream
43"And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay, they will combine with one another in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery. 44"In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever. 45"Inasmuch as you saw that a stone was cut out of the mountain without hands and that it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold, the great God has made known to the king what will take place in the future; so the dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy."

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Luke 2:11
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:25
For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

But as I understand your belief, you don't believe in an eternal kingdom of GOD on earth; just in heaven.

i don't believe Jesus returns to Jerusalem in the ME and sets up there if thats what you mean.

the kingdom is eternal....there are many places where we are told this earth is destined for destruction.
the kingdom is eternal and we are told that it continues (for the redeemed) from NOW, in our time in the kingdom here on earth - to the new heaven; new earth; new jerusalem - however you understand that.

The throne of the Lamb (but no longer mediatorial) as well as of God, shall be in the heavenly city (Re 22:3; compare Re 3:21). - JFBBC

Hebrews 2:8
and put everything under their feet." In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.

Psalm 110:1
The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

The word "end" (τέλος telos) denotes properly a limit, termination, completion of anything. The proper and obvious meaning of the word here is, that then shall be the end or completion of the work of redemption. That shall have been done which was intended to be done by the incarnation and the work of the atonement; the race shall be redeemed; the friends of God shall be completely recovered; and the administration of the affairs of the universe shall be conducted as they were before the incarnation of the Redeemer.

The kingdom - This word means properly dominion, reign, the exercise of kingly power. In the New Testament it means commonly the reign of the Messiah, or the dominion which God would exercise through the Messiah; the reign of God over people by the laws and institutions of the Messiah; see the note on Matthew 3:2. - Barnes'

1 Corinthians 15
25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be abolished is death

He must reign...He is reigning now.
over heaven and earth.
All Authority.

he makes two parts of this reign and dominion of the Son in which the Father's glory consists: that is first, the overcoming of his enemies, in which some must be deprived of all power, as Satan and all the wicked, be they ever so proud and mighty, and others must be utterly abolished, as death. And second, a plain and full delivery of the godly from all enemies, that by this means God may fully set forth the body of the Church cleaving fast to their head Christ, his kingdom and glory, as a King among his subjects...

(h) The conclusion and finishing of all things.

(i) All his enemies who will be robbed of all the power that they have. - Geneva

 

[Elin]

Not to mention it would have been disobedience and death to do so (Ex 19:24).

...I did mention they *weren't* allowed to touch it, Elin.

It's not about touching it, it's about "drawing nearer."
Simply drawing nearer would have resulted in death.

But it was clear stone.

Assuming it was the stone used, which Scripture does not state, carvings into it would be hard to read.

...but what does that have to do with the price of milk? But scripture *does* say it was the stone used; I gave the passage unaltered. It was sapphire. What color is sapphire? Reading in context from Exodus 24:10-12. This is why the ribbon was commanded to be blue.

My Bible does not state it was the stone used.
What Bible do you use?

Which were broken, and Moses supplied the stone for the second copy, which was like the first copy
(Dt 10:1), which indicates the first copy was just ordinary stone.

??? No...it's doesn't. Deuteronomy 10:1 indicates that it would be *two stones* like the original. Context.

And how does "two stones" (tablets) alter the fact that Moses supplied them, which would make them ordinary stone, indicating the first copy was ordinary stone?

But tassels were worn on the prayer shawl.

Where were prayer shawls - that *unlawfully* cover a MAN's head during prayer - commanded in scripture? You're confusing Jewish Roots (i.e from Judaism > from Pharisee-ism) with Hebrew Roots (i.e. from God's commands).

Where were tassels commanded in Scripture?
What does that have to do with custom?

That would mean the woman did not touch tassels, but the hem of his garment as the Scripture states.

??????? First century Jews didn't sew hems in their clothing. They wore white garments like the one on the right...

In fact...Christ's garment was specifically said to be "seamless".

First of all, that is the clothing of the High Priest, not the ordinary Jew.
And the white tunic has no tassels, the tassels are on the blue robe of the High Priest.

Secondly, my Bible actually states she touched "the edge of his cloak." "Hem" is from older translations.

Thirdly, there is no indication she believed something about his clothing.
But there is legislation in the Mosaic Law that all bodily discharges make one unclean, and whoever they touch becomes unclean.
Therefore, she would have touched his cloak, not because she believed something about his clothing, but because to touch his body would have made him unclean.

It's just better to stay with what is written.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then Christ doesn't need to return, right? I'm not being cheeky. I'm asking. If the kingdom of God is now, then why are the prophecies of the wolf lying with the lamb, people 100yrs old considered young people, the nations coming to worship on the feast of tabernacles, etc. not a reality? Those are a few of the things that were promised in the kingdom, right?

Those are two different things.

John the baptist said the kingdom of God is at hand (near) Scripture said Jesus ushered in the new kingdom, as confirmed with the new covenant.

 

[RedTent]

Loveme1: Getting carried away with doctrines of men brings danger, whether it be through the Hebrew Root or by the Jehovah Witnesses...

Why ever would you say the Hebrew Root is doctrine of men when the entire idea is to listen to scripture not men? The whole problem is that they say scripture is all scripture and the church says that when Christ came and fulfilled such as blood of animals, etc. Christ said that meant to listen to what men said scripture was and not study scripture. Just toss out listening to such as the law of Moses says the church, and they say to study and learn from it.

 

[Elin]

Why ever would you say the Hebrew Root is doctrine of men when the entire idea is to listen to scripture not men? The whole problem is that they say scripture is all scripture and the church says that when Christ came and fulfilled such as blood of animals, etc. Christ said that meant to listen to what men said scripture was and not study scripture. Just toss out listening to such as the law of Moses says the church, and they say to study and learn from it.

By "men," do you mean the NT writers?

Did "men" not also write the OT?

What Scripture do we have that was not written by "men?"

What would you know of Christ Jesus without the writings of "men?"

 

[loveme1]

Why ever would you say the Hebrew Root is doctrine of men when the entire idea is to listen to scripture not men? The whole problem is that they say scripture is all scripture and the church says that when Christ came and fulfilled such as blood of animals, etc. Christ said that meant to listen to what men said scripture was and not study scripture. Just toss out listening to such as the law of Moses says the church, and they say to study and learn from it.

The Messiah Yahshua gave a Testimony for us to "hear" and "do".

If men are coming along and telling us to keep the law of Moses to be saved then we will have fallen from Grace and be required to keep the whole law.

The Messiah Yahshua gave us a New Testament.

I completely agree we should listen to Scripture the problem is when we believe we are to keep the law of Moses.

Read Revelation 2 and 3.

Does the Messiah give warning that we are in error for not being circumcised or for not Keeping the feasts?

So while a person in their Liberty may Keep the Feasts and be circumcised, they should not believe they are part of Salvation and not be laying such things on other people.

The Hebrew people were under the law of Moses.

Now while we are to study to show ourselves approved, we should not let people entangle us.

There is much to learn and the Bible i believe should be read from beginning to end.





I for one will put my Faith in the Messiah Yahshua and Keep His Word.

 

[Praus]

Why ever would you say the Hebrew Root is doctrine of men when the entire idea is to listen to scripture not men? The whole problem is that they say scripture is all scripture and the church says that when Christ came and fulfilled such as blood of animals, etc. Christ said that meant to listen to what men said scripture was and not study scripture. Just toss out listening to such as the law of Moses says the church, and they say to study and learn from it.

[video=youtube;w8VcBpY0q1o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8VcBpY0q1o[/video]

 

[RedTent]

The Messiah Yahshua gave a Testimony for us to "hear" and "do".

If men are coming along and telling us to keep the law of Moses to be saved then we will have fallen from Grace and be required to keep the whole law.

The Messiah Yahshua gave us a New Testament.

I completely agree we should listen to Scripture the problem is when we believe we are to keep the law of Moses.

Read Revelation 2 and 3.

Does the Messiah give warning that we are in error for not being circumcised or for not Keeping the feasts?

So while a person in their Liberty may Keep the Feasts and be circumcised, they should not believe they are part of Salvation and not be laying such things on other people.

The Hebrew people were under the law of Moses.

Now while we are to study to show ourselves approved, we should not let people entangle us.

There is much to learn and the Bible i believe should be read from beginning to end.


I for one will put my Faith in the Messiah Yahshua and Keep His Word.

You are actually lying about a movement to listen to the entire scripture, the movement is to listen to all 66 books, and find how they are about the same God, the eternal God. You say God changed, that God is not the same one who wrote the law of Moses, and who sent His Son. God was the same in Numbers and in Galatians. They agree. You say they don't. That is not so. You are angry because these people use the feasts and rituals, not for salvation but to remember what God gave them for in the first place. Most of you don't even know why. You follow a man, you follow Constantine and what he said to do. They say that God is better to follow.

 

[RedTent]

By "men," do you mean the NT writers?

Did "men" not also write the OT?

What Scripture do we have that was not written by "men?"

What would you know of Christ Jesus without the writings of "men?"

Scripture was written through men, men wrote what God breathed to them. We can look at things "men" as you say wrote about prophecy that came true. If is was man writing without God, how could they know these things?

Our scripture can be trusted as from God. Our scripture can, all 66 books, be trusted as telling us what God says, not what man says.

 

[zone]

[video=youtube;w8VcBpY0q1o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8VcBpY0q1o[/video]

here's another really good source:

It’s important for Christians to have a grasp of heresies that the church has battled over the centuries, because they often return with new clothing, and the unprepared Christian is likely to fall into these old pits. Phil does an excellent job of looking at some of the major heresies that are revisiting the church today: Socinianism, Arianism, Pelagianism, Gnosticism, and Judaizing. This is an excellent 6 part series that will shore up some weak points in the church today.

Phil Johnson

A Survey of Heresies

AUDIOS - recommended

(phil is an awesome teacher...calvinist; and premillennialist (i think, but doesn't teach eschatology).,)
he was part of the Strange Fire Conference.
had a good blog for a long time - Pyromaniacs...it's still up but he's not blogging anymore..

 

[zone]

You are actually lying about a movement to listen to the entire scripture, the movement is to listen to all 66 books, and find how they are about the same God, the eternal God. You say God changed, that God is not the same one who wrote the law of Moses, and who sent His Son. God was the same in Numbers and in Galatians. They agree. You say they don't. That is not so. You are angry because these people use the feasts and rituals, not for salvation but to remember what God gave them for in the first place. Most of you don't even know why. You follow a man, you follow Constantine and what he said to do. They say that God is better to follow.

oh purleese redtent.


would it be JESUS CHRIST you are remembering?

or an exodus from Egypt?

Matthew 6:5
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

Matthew 6:1
"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

Matthew 23:5
"Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;

 

[zone]

Scripture was written through men, men wrote what God breathed to them. We can look at things "men" as you say wrote about prophecy that came true. If is was man writing without God, how could they know these things?

Our scripture can be trusted as from God. Our scripture can, all 66 books, be trusted as telling us what God says, not what man says.

you've posted stuff from your fav sources.... HR sources. (usually without citing them)
so what's the diff?

if i recall, you promoted a certain jewish woman who was a Christian...supposedly...then renounced Christ and converted BACK to Judaism.
what was her name again? had a write up in the NYT i believe.

 

[Least]

Scripture was written through men, men wrote what God breathed to them. We can look at things "men" as you say wrote about prophecy that came true. If is was man writing without God, how could they know these things?

Our scripture can be trusted as from God. Our scripture can, all 66 books, be trusted as telling us what God says, not what man says.

The bible makes that clear.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Exodus 17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.
Isaiah 30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
Jeremiah 30:2 Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.

 

[Stephen63]

Y'know, I liked the original post, but as usual, some home run hitter smacks a left field foul ball & the whole thread is derailed.

Thank you Op for your original post. I like messianic jew music, but now I must reconsider it for its content. You got me thinking.