Problems with the Missouri Synod Lutheran Chrurch.

RickShafer · Nov 2, 2013

She makes a delineation between the feast and the Lord's supper.
When no such thing exists
Also, she considers it a rite to forbid certain from partaking because they are deemed 'unworthy'. - (I wonder how that would have worked out with the thief on the cross?)
- (JESUS IS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS WORTHY!)

Stephen63 · Nov 2, 2013

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Did you ever stop & think that certain people give a denomination a bad name, thus resulting in this thread in the first place? Sheesh!

Praus · Nov 2, 2013

RickShafer said:

Agreed!

RickShafer said:

Agreed!

RickShafer said:

Digital Spanish Inquisition is the true title of this thread!

[video=youtube;vt0Y39eMvpI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0Y39eMvpI[/video]

Stephen63 · Nov 2, 2013

zone said:

You wanna know why I thought of you?
Matthew 7:16-20 (KJV) [SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Stephen63 · Nov 2, 2013

1still_waters said:

This comes from the LCMS website under water baptism:

What benefits does Baptism give?
It works forgiveness of sins,rescues from death and the devil,
and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words
and promises of God declare. Which are these words and
promises of God? Christ our Lord says in the last chapter of
Mark:“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,but whoever
does not believe will be condemned”(Mark 16:16).
In and through Baptism,God cleanses us from all of our
sins, snatches us from the power of Satan, and gives us everlasting
life.It is all God’s doing as He gives us His blessing.It is
His promise.In Baptism,our Triune God imparts to each of us
personally the gifts the Lord Jesus Christ won for the world
through His life,suffering,death,and resurrection.Please see
especially Gal.3:27;Col.1:13–14; 1 Peter 3:21;Titus 3:5–7 and
1 Cor.6:11.
Belief and Practice - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod - Water Baptism

Would anyone want to comment on that?

Stephen63 · Nov 2, 2013

1still_waters said:

Belief and Practice - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod - Water Baptism

As Luther says in his Large Catechism,“If I am baptized,I
have the promise that I shall be saved and have eternal life,
both in soul and body. ...No greater jewel can adorn our body
and soul than Baptism. ...Baptism is a treasure which God
gives us and faith grasps,just as the Lord Christ upon the cross
is not a human work,but a treasure comprehended and offered
to us in the Word and received by faith.”

Stephen63 · Nov 2, 2013

1still_waters said:

Belief and Practice - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod - Water Baptism

What does Baptism have to do with our daily life?
Everything! Our entire life is a life lived trusting in the
promises of God,given to us in and through Holy Baptism.We
are constantly returning to Baptism.In moments of temptation
and suffering in our lives,when all seems to be crashing
down on us,and in particular in those moments when our sin
and the guilt of those sins haunt us,we are able,as Luther says,
to “Pull out our Baptism and wave it under the devil’s nose andsay,‘I am baptized. ...I have God’s bath.It is Christ’s own blood.’
It is a bath blessed and mixed with the blood of Christ.”2 We
can’t return to the cross of Christ,nor should we attempt to
imagine ourselves back there.No,we turn instead to the “here
and now”reality of God’s work in our lives.We return to our
Baptism.For it was there and then that God buried us with
Christ and raised us with Him to a new life

Stephen63 · Nov 2, 2013

1still_waters said:

Belief and Practice - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod - Water Baptism

Why are infants and young children baptized?
They are baptized for the same reason adults are baptized—
because of the command and promise of God.What is
promised in Baptism is given to all who receive it; therefore,
infants and young children also have the promise of God.They,
too, are made children of God.They, too, are included in the
words “all nations”(Matt.28:19). Jesus specifically invites little
children to come to Him (Luke 18:15–17).But most important,
as sinners,infants need what Baptism gives.
By His word,God created all that is seen and unseen.By
His word,our Lord Christ called a dead man from the tomb
(John 11:43–44).The unborn child,John the Baptist,leaped in
his mother’s womb when he heard the word of God (Luke
1:41–44).Why is there any doubt that in and through the Word
and the promise of Baptism,God works a similar gift of faith
in the infant? If we misunderstand Baptism to be our work,
then we will always cast doubt on it.When we recognize that it
is not our work,but God’s gracious promise and work,we realize
that infants are to be baptized and receive the treasures
offered in and through Baptism.
Sadly, there are individuals and church bodies that deny
Baptism to young children and infants.They do not believe
that these little ones need what Holy Baptism gives.They do
not believe what the Bible teaches so clearly,namely,that God
saves us through Baptism.As a result of these false teachings,
they deny both to themselves and to others the power,blessing
and comfort of Holy Baptism.That is tragic, for it is a most
serious offense against God to deny what He plainly declares in
His Word: “The promise is for you and your children”(Acts
2:39) and “Baptism now saves you”(1 Peter 3:21).
Conclusion
“We see what a great and excellent thing Baptism is,which
snatches us from the jaws of the devil and makes God our
own,overcomes and takes away sin and daily strengthens the
new man.It always remains until we pass from this present
misery to eternal glory”(Large Catechism).
The meaning, power and promise of Holy Baptism rest
entirely on the One who lived perfectly in our place and who
suffered and died as the sacrificial ransom for the sins of the
world.He rose victorious over death and the grave. In Holy
Baptism,we receive all the blessings of Christ’s atoning sacrifice.
Thank God for His gift of Holy Baptism!
1.The words in italics are from Luther’s Small Catechism.
2. WA 47:651,10-19,32-36.
— Dr.A.L.Barry
President
The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

Self-explanatory, wouldn't you say?

thecreationtutor · Nov 2, 2013

RedTent said:

This church has decided that they are infallibly correct in every interpretation of the bible, that they are the only people who are correct. Their members may not visit another church. All of this, they say, is contained in their book called Book of Concord. If any member even visits another church, they would seem to agree with the doctrines of that church and be against God for every church has some errors in interpretation but them. Most Lutherans are not a member of the Missouri Synod for this reason.

Their ministers are not even allowed to be part of any civil gathering, like when ministers unite in a council meeting.

In the bible it states that Co 12:13 For in the one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. That one spirit comes through Jesus Christ, not the Missouri Synod Lutheran.

We can know members of this universal church by their love for each other. Joh_13:35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." Most Lutheran Churches include these doctrines, but not the Missouri Synod.

are you sure this isn't a direct attack on people in the chat

JaumeJ · Nov 2, 2013

Is not the christening of an enfant in keeping with the presentation of the newborn to God in the Temple? It is not baptism after the form read of in the Word.

If it is the presentation of the child to God, it is a very beautiful act, now baptism is not the same. Perhaps it has become the same for some, but it is not the same.

Praus · Nov 2, 2013

Stephen63 said:

Is that a sign the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the OP?

Stephen63 · Nov 2, 2013

1still_waters said:

Belief and Practice - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod-Confession and Absolution
Absolution is the ongoing work of Holy Baptism,in which
our old,sinful nature in Adam is drowned and the new man in
Christ arises.Through Holy Absolution we receive “the gift of
God,”which is forgiveness of sins and “eternal life in Christ
Jesus our Lord”(Rom.6:23).

Confessing our sins in the Divine Service, we hear the
Lord’s servant, our pastor, absolve our sins in the name of
Christ.Privately,we go to the pastor for confession and absolution
precisely for those sins we are most aware of and those
sins that are particularly troubling to us.These we confess to
our pastor and hear the words of Christ,“I forgive you.”

1 John 2:1-2 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [SUP]2 [/SUP]And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Jesue was the man in the middle on the cross, & to me that entitles Him to all rights to be the ONLY MIDDLEMAN between God & me...... No other person deserves such such a place.

JaumeJ · Nov 2, 2013

When I say I believe all assemblies who separate themselves from other assemblies by their own set of rules and regulations for belief are cults, I am not attacking the members of these cults.

How can this be? As I have explained many times before, I believe, because of the Word, there are many believers in all of the cults who are members by circumstance, yet they do believe.

Yahweh says He will call His children out of the Great Whore, Zona Gadol, and it is reasonable out of her daughters also since they are all Whores.

For this and many other reasons, I cannot associate myself with any other form of faith than what is in the Word, led by the Holy Spirit.

Now it seems some members of the cult in question find it quite fine to question those who live in faith and the Holy Spirit saying they are wrong to practice certain teachings of the Word, most interesting is the use of the gift of tongues.

While these LSM members feel free to attack and malign the manner of worship of others, even to the point of calling them liars or ignorant, I see here it is called an attack on certain members of the forum to bring up that their form and practices could be faulty.

This my friends is called, in modern language, hypocrisy. Please allow others to voice what they understand and address the OP. Starting now would be a good time.

thecreationtutor said:

zone · Nov 2, 2013

RickShafer said:

??

1 Corinthians 11
The Lord’s Supper
17But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. 18For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part,d 19for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. 20When you come together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat. 21For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk. 22What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.

23For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is fore you. Do this in remembrance of me.”f 25In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord.

28Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.g 31But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. 32But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplinedi so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

33So then, my brothers,j when you come together to eat, wait for one another— 34if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home—so that when you come together it will not be for judgment. About the other things I will give directions when I come.

Stephen63 · Nov 2, 2013

1still_waters said:

Belief and Practice - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod-Confession and Absolution

Is confession and absolution a Sacrament?

Although Holy Absolution has no visible element, it definitely
does have Christ’s institution.The Lutheran Confessions
refer to Holy Absolution as a Sacrament (LC IV.74;Ap.XIII.4).
The Lutheran Confessions also wisely point out that “No intelligent
person will quibble about the number of sacraments or
the terminology, so long as those things are kept which have
God’s command and promises”(AP XIII.17).

Kinda sounds like a "Don't question us" policy, eh?

zone · Nov 2, 2013

Stephen63 said:

unhealthy obsession?
guilty conscience?
can't answer the issues raised?

i don't know really.

you do though.

don't you have a flock to care for?

Stephen63 said:

Media

zone · Nov 2, 2013

Stephen63 said:

This comes from the LCMS website under water baptism:

What benefits does Baptism give?
It works forgiveness of sins,rescues from death and the devil,
and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words
and promises of God declare. Which are these words and
promises of God? Christ our Lord says in the last chapter of
Mark:“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,but whoever
does not believe will be condemned”(Mark 16:16).
In and through Baptism,God cleanses us from all of our
sins, snatches us from the power of Satan, and gives us everlasting
life.It is all God’s doing as He gives us His blessing.It is
His promise.In Baptism,our Triune God imparts to each of us
personally the gifts the Lord Jesus Christ won for the world
through His life,suffering,death,and resurrection.Please see
especially Gal.3:27;Col.1:13–14; 1 Peter 3:21;Titus 3:5–7 and
1 Cor.6:11.
Belief and Practice - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod - Water Baptism

Would anyone want to comment on that?

Ephesians 4:5
4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

how many baptisms are there?

zone · Nov 2, 2013

Stephen63 said:

Ephesians 4:5
4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

how many baptisms are there?
do you baptize disciples in water stephen?
if so...why do you?

if not....why don't you?

zone · Nov 2, 2013

Stephen63 said:

Galatians 3:27
26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

don't you take comfort in your baptism, knowing what The Lord has done?

Romans 6:3
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

what's the problem?
Gospel too simple?

Stephen63 · Nov 2, 2013

1still_waters said:

Belief and Practice - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod-What About . . .The Apostles’ Creed

Some church bodies shy away from making formal statements
of faith.The Lutheran church is not hesitant to use thehistoric, universal (ecumenical) creeds.We use the Apostles’
Creed,the Nicene Creed and the Athanasian Creed.These three
ancient creeds are how we confess the one, true faith of the
Christian church and they help us to identify with all believers
in Christ throughout all ages.

Someone help me here.... Does this mean they're part of the Ecumenical movement like the catholics?

Problems with the Missouri Synod Lutheran Chrurch.

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned