What Laws are still valid to christians

[homwardbound]

So they received eternal life in their spirit when they ate of the tree of life?

And they lost eternal life in their spirit when they rebelled (sinned), "Dying (loss of eternal life),
you shall die (physically)." (Gen 2:17)
Their loss of eternal spiritual life resulted in physical death. . .because "the wages of sin is death."
(Ro 6:23)

They were barred from ever eating of the tree of life again,
because from that point on, eternal life was by faith and cleansing of the blood,
not by embibing it.

Adam believed the promise of Ge 3:15,
and was clothed by God in the garments from the first blood sacrifice, which were
his robe of righteousness (Is 61:10) signifying reconciliation with God by the sacrifice.

And so in fact, Adam lost eternal life, and all mankind is now born without eternal life,
condemned already (Jn 3:18), remaining under the wrath of God (Jn 3:36), which is
the meaning of born in "spiritual death," and "by nature objects of God's wrath" (Eph 2:3).

And so in fact, we must now be reborn into that eternal life, through faith by grace,
for deliverance/salvation from the condemnation and wrath of God (Jn 3:18, 36; Ro 5:9),
into which all are born. (Eph 2:3).

All truth Sister except nowhere does it say that they had ever ate from the tree of life before the eating of that tree of death, So I can conjecture this either way, they did or they did not, no matter all the rest you wrote is truth, Thank you

 

[Elin]

Would you like to explain Ro 5:13-14?

What is there to explain?

• Laws of GOD existed before Moses (Genesis 26:5)
• There was no letter of law before Moses (that we know of)
• Sins against unwritten laws before the law of Moses were not imputed
• All men between Adam and Moses died because all were sinners, and sinners are by nature spiritually dead

Death is the wages of sin (Ro 6:23).

If sin was not imputed to them, for the guilt of what sin did they then die?

What is the significance of laws being not written before Moses?

 

[homwardbound]

None of those phrases are "letter of the law" and "spirit of the law"

which are the cause of misunderstanding.

Okay then, what are we to follow under, is there any Law or are we to just take advantage and not care for others, I mean since we are forgiven, should we thus only have a wordly sorrow and act like those Corinthians did, drinking up all the wine, getting drunk and eating all the food, accepting the Corinthians girls in their place of worship, and just doing whatever came to their fleshly mind, thinking well, since we are forgiven we can do anything we want, without considering others as Sodom and Gomorrah did in that day, yet without forgiveness already in place as it is today
Ergo the reason 1 Cor. was written to them and in second Cor. 7 it shows they changed from the worldly take advantage of being forgiven to a Godly sorrow, where they were now thankful and responded in Faith to God, trusting God to live not only in them. more importantly through them. What a change.
Okay,

 

[Elin]

Sin was not imputed to him via Law:

So was sin imputed to him at all?

We are condemned by the sin of the First Adam (though the
Scriptures cover the sin issue from two angles: sin was imputed to you, but by the Law we were all found guilty; no one is righteous).

Thanks.

The two "angles" are pre- and post-law, and they are the same regarding condemnation.

We are condemned by Adam's sin both pre- and post-law.

And actually, they are the same regarding righteousness.

Righteousness is by faith both pre- and post-law.

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, letter refers to the written form of the law, and all law is written.


All laws are written, therefore, all laws have a "physical" form.
No law is abstract only.


Indeed, if these phrases were found in Scripture, that meaning would be clear from their context.

Not being found in Scripture, there is nothing to establish and guard their meaning.
And so we find the wrong-minded kind of error regarding them that I am addressing below.

Evidently you have not encountered this form of error,
but it occurs frequently in my neck o' the woods.
It has a simple basis and a simple solution.

Its basis is Scripturally-unauthorized phrases, and its solution is not using
Scripturally-unauthorized phrases, which have no context to establish their true meaning.

Hence, my post, following:

Actually, there is no "spirit of the law" and "letter of the law" in Scripture.

The phrase "letter of the law" is incorrectly used to mean the external, literal sense in Scripture, or obedience to the external, literal sense of Scripture, as being deadly (kills) or unprofitable;
while the "spirit of the law" is incorrectly used to mean the inner spiritual sense of Scripture, or our inner attitude, as being life giving.

However, in 2Co 3:6-9, "the letter" is simply "the law written," an external standard before which all people stand guilty and condemned to death (the letter k ills).

The Spirit that gives life is the Holy Spirit of the living God (v.3), not our inner attitude, or some "spiritual" sense of the words.

It is the Holy Spirit who writes that same law (the letter) inwardly "on tablets of human hearts," in fulfillment of the promise of the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34), and the law is now an internal standard.
And the Holy Spirit likewise gives the believer love of God's law, as well as power to keep it, neither of which he had previously possessed before the indwelling Holy Spirit.

So "the letter of the law" and "the spirit of the law" are unBiblical phrases often used in opposition to one another, or as distinct and different from one another, in an incorrect understanding of the law and the Spirit.

Thank you for sharing what and why you see it from this point of view that you see it. I think motive is a major part to either being set free or not.

 

[homwardbound]

To JGIG, Please learn to be CAREFUL with your WORDS, You CONTRADICT your self and send the wrong message. Words have specific meanings. If Christ has done "all" at the cross, THEN there is nothing more needed, ALL are SAVED< UNIVERSALISM>! NO WAY! IF 'Forgiveness has been "GIVEN" to all men", THEN ALL are saved.! NO WAY! PLEASE , listen to the verses you used: keping them in context. ALL of the verses you used are CONDTIONAL, they are ONLY PROVISIONAL; The sinner MUST receive what Jesus has PROVIDED for them. To be saved, Jesus must be RECEIVED by the sinner.Love to all , Hoffco

All Hoffco are forgiven but not all believe this as you do not, as you just said, how can a seed have life unless it fall into the ground and die. /An Ex: for each of us to agree with God to die to self, be co-crucified with Christ's death, we reckon ourselves dead by this dead to sinful flesh. and by the same operation that Father raised his Son back to life, he does this a free gift to us made alive to God in the Spirit of God here and now, no more under obligation(s) that is the way of the world to obligate us, and Christ frees us from that so we do walk as he walked in complete fullness through the Spirit. first we are forgiven 100% and that is the only way we can receive this new life from God through the Son's finished work

 

[Elin]

You clearly said 'our part' and 'His part'.

You can't have it both ways.

God holds up all aspects of the New Covenant; we simply enter in by faith and partake in what He has done.

-JGIG

Do you really not understand that by "our part" is meant the function that is ours; viz. faith?

 

[Elin]

For "unbelief" and "disobedience" are the same Greek word, apeitheo,
and are one and the same thing.

Disobedience manifests unbelief, and
unbelief results in disobedience.

The disobedience of the forefathers in Heb 3 was the result of their unbelief.

Interpretation (s) is none other than either of the self flesh for self gain and masquerades well.
Or of God spiritually discerned form God to the believer, those whom God has chosen to have Mercy on through the cross of son and none other.

Interpretation is always according to the meaning of the words in the language,
where "unbelief" and "disobedience" are the same Greek work, making them one and the same thing.

The point under discussion was did Christ "administer" the New Covenant, or "mediate" the New Covenant.

looking for a needle in a haystack are we? watch out could swallow a camel in doing so

Sister can we both grow together?

Sounds good to me. . .

 

[homwardbound]

Rom.5:17 "Those who RECEIVE God's abundant PROVISION" ( PROVISIONAL< must be RECEVIED)

Jh. 3:16-21 "whoever BELIEVES" (PROVISIONAL, must be BELIEVED= Repent, Trust and Obey)

2Cor.5:18-21 God has made(PROVIDED reconciliation) We have the "ministry of reconciliation" We preach, "we implore you on Christ's behalf, BE RECONCILED to God." GOD now opens the hearts of sinners to come to Christ and BE reconcilied to God, NOW, NOT ON THE CROSS> This is not"nit-picking" this is "rightly" understanding the
words of the Bible.! Love to all. Hoffco

So how does one be reconciled. any self works involved, if so then /Christ went to the cross for nothing for you, being too busy working out your own salvation with fear ands trembling, that next verse completes this first vwerse that so many are trembling on:
[h=3]Philippians 2:13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[Elin]

So they received eternal life in their spirit when they ate of the tree of life?

And they lost eternal life in their spirit when they rebelled (sinned), "Dying (loss of eternal life),
you shall die (physically)." (Gen 2:17)
Their loss of eternal spiritual life resulted in physical death. . .because "the wages of sin is death."
(Ro 6:23)

They were barred from ever eating of the tree of life again,
because from that point on, eternal life was by faith and cleansing of the blood,
not by embibing it.

Adam believed the promise of Ge 3:15,
and was clothed by God in the garments from the first blood sacrifice, which were
his robe of righteousness (Is 61:10) signifying reconciliation with God by the sacrifice.

And so in fact, Adam lost eternal life, and all mankind is now born without eternal life,
condemned already (Jn 3:18), remaining under the wrath of God (Jn 3:36), which is
the meaning of born in "spiritual death," and "by nature objects of God's wrath" (Eph 2:3).

And so in fact, we must now be reborn into that eternal life, through faith by grace,
for deliverance/salvation from the condemnation and wrath of God (Jn 3:18, 36; Ro 5:9),
into which all are born. (Eph 2:3).

All truth Sister except nowhere does it say that they had ever ate from the tree of life before the eating of that tree of death, So I can conjecture this either way, they did or they did not, no matter all the rest you wrote is truth, Thank you

Which is precisely why it has nothing to do with their being created with eternal life in their spirits,

as the result of being created in the image of God, which the NT tells us includes righteousness,

holiness (Eph 4:24) and knowledge of him (Col 3:10).

That is the eternal life they were given in their creation, and which they lost in their rebellion.

Adam and Eve had eternal life at creation.

 

[homwardbound]

Gal. 2:20 put it very clear: I LIVE by the FAITH of Jesus. Jesus is not living His life thru me, He is inpowering me to LIVE the Christ life today. We are the SALT and LIGHT to the world for God,and if we lose our FAVOR and BRIGHTNESS ,WE are no good to God's service. He throwns us out, as unsaved OR USeless to the Kingdom. Love to all Hoffco

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[Elin]

Okay then, what are we to follow under, is there any Law or are we to just take advantage and not care for others, I mean since we are forgiven, should we thus only have a wordly sorrow and act like those Corinthians did, drinking up all the wine, getting drunk and eating all the food, accepting the Corinthians girls in their place of worship, and just doing whatever came to their fleshly mind, thinking well, since we are forgiven we can do anything we want, without considering others as Sodom and Gomorrah did in that day, yet without forgiveness already in place as it is today
Ergo the reason 1 Cor. was written to them and in second Cor. 7 it shows they changed from the worldly take advantage of being forgiven to a Godly sorrow, where they were now thankful and responded in Faith to God, trusting God to live not only in them. more importantly through them. What a change.
Okay,

Reread my most on the two phrases.

You do not understand what it said.

 

[Elin]

Indeed, if the phrases, "letter of the law" and "spirit of the law," were found in Scripture,
your meaning would be clear from their context.

Not being found in Scripture, there is nothing to establish and guard their meaning.
And so we find the wrong-minded use regarding them that I am addressing below.

Evidently you have not encountered this form of error,
but it occurs frequently in my neck o' the woods.
It has a simple basis and a simple solution.

Its basis is Scripturally-unauthorized phrases, and its solution is not using
Scripturally-unauthorized phrases, which have no context to establish their true meaning.

Hence, my post, following:

Actually, there is no "spirit of the law" and "letter of the law" in Scripture.

The phrase "letter of the law" is wrong-headedly used to mean the external, literal sense in Scripture, or obedience to the external, literal sense of Scripture, as being deadly (kills) or unprofitable;
while the "spirit of the law" is wrong-headedly used to mean the inner spiritual sense of Scripture, or our inner attitude, as being life giving.

However, in 2Co 3:6-9, "the letter" is simply "the law written," an external standard before which all people stand guilty and condemned to death (the letter kills).

The Spirit that gives life is the Holy Spirit of the living God (v.3), not our inner attitude, or some "spiritual" sense of the words.

It is the Holy Spirit who writes that same law (the letter) inwardly "on tablets of human hearts," in fulfillment of the promise of the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34), and the law is now an internal standard.
And the Holy Spirit likewise gives the believer love of God's law, as well as power to keep it, neither of which he had previously possessed before the indwelling Holy Spirit.

So "the letter of the law" and "the spirit of the law" are unBiblical phrases often used in opposition to one another, or as distinct and different from one another, in a wrong-headed understanding of the law and the Spirit.

Thank you for sharing what and why you see it from this point of view that you see it.
I think motive is a major part to either being set free or not.

Do you understand what I am saying?

Set free from what?

Wrong-headedness?

 

[homwardbound]

Originally Posted by JGIG

And the Holy Spirit does not convict believers of sin. There is NO contextual Scripture to support that notion.

Then who does?

This world people do

[h=3]John 16:8-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [SUP]9 [/SUP]of sin, because they believe not on me; [SUP]10 [/SUP]of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Flesh stays on sinning, because we are taught that he did not take away the sin of the world as John 1:29 states, he came to do/ By one trying to stop sin, before belief or after, only keeps one trapped in sin, why?

Galatians 6:8
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.


The above matters not whether one does not want to sin or can care less. either way thinking (sowing) on flesh only produces flesh actions and reactions by one's Emotions as in what they believe to be right and or wrong, and everyone has differing opinions, yet Emotions no matter what only respond to thought, and has no conception what one is trying to do.
How many times have you gone to Lord over and over again to take away what you do not like what you are doing, and yet you do it all over again, maybe re-read romans 7 again, and see the "I" can't so it not perfectly anyway ever, and is why Paul calls us to die to self back in romans 6,and even says we are dead to self in God's view through the cross of Son. We have before the cross and an after the cross, which side is the right side to be on safe and secure?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Death is the wages of sin (Ro 6:23).

If sin was not imputed to them, for the guilt of what sin did they then die?

What is the significance of laws being not written before Moses?

Sin was imputed to them through Adam. Men die because Adam sinned.

The significance of unwritten laws before Moses is so that his elect would know how to live obedient lives.

 

[homwardbound]

In a covenant both parties have responsibilities. Ours is simply to abide in what Christ has done through faith. GOD gives faith, but he can't make us choose to utilize it.

Yes one either believes or they do not, unbelief in the final sacrifice of Christ where one's sins are forgiven, will not show them the new life that Christ came to give here and now today as he said he did in John 10:10 The working for ir or to keep in it is over as he said it was when he yelled
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

New Covenant took place ate his death Hebrews 9:15-17, new laws, Hebrews 7:12 and new priesthood Hebrews 7:11

 

[Elin]

Sin was imputed to them through Adam. Men die because Adam sinned.

The significance of unwritten laws before Moses is so that his elect would know how to live obedient lives.

Okay, so unwritten laws have no bearing on 2Co 3:6.

 

[homwardbound]

Interpretation is always according to the meaning of the words in the language,
where "unbelief" and "disobedience" are the same Greek work, making them one and the same thing.




Sounds good to me. . .

and that is each of our purpose to grow and learn from one another and take all that learning afterward to God in prayer to teach us each the truth that sets us free, for it is the truth that sets one free, so everytime I see me in bondage I know somewhere I got this by not seeing the whole truth and somehow my old self flesh took over, because I know that there is no sin ever in God's Spirit. So you see where I desire to reside 24/7 this is how I grow in grace and how God teaches me to just trust and I will be out of the worry warts way, my flesh that is, that is doubtful of the truth, that b rings doubt just as the Serpent did to Adam and Eve, so they ate because of doubt that entered and they listened to. Here we are today doubting whether or not we are by Christ forgiven 100%, which does what? if we are not, flesh takes over and we are deceived from the truth and we sow to flesh that can never please God Gal 6:8 pretty clear and this verse is mistranslated in newer version

 

[homwardbound]

Which is precisely why it has nothing to do with their being created with eternal life in their spirits,

as the result of being created in the image of God, which the NT tells us includes righteousness,

holiness (Eph 4:24) and knowledge of him (Col 3:10).

That is the eternal life they were given in their creation, and which they lost in their rebellion.

Adam and Eve had eternal life at creation.

Yes, and unaware flesh not knowing they were naked until after, not knowing what being alive yet in the Spirit is as of then either, anyway, you are correct, and Thank you

 

[homwardbound]

Reread my most on the two phrases.

You do not understand what it said.

okay can you then repost it in maybe different words so I can please