Problems with the Missouri Synod Lutheran Chrurch.

[nathan3]

We get the truth from The word of God, not trying to pull things from our brothers and sisters eyes when we cant see well ourselves beacuse of the thing in our own eyes..so please ppl stop looking for excuses to continue this behavour, it is something the Lord hates.

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

You need to post this article by Charles Spurgeon and let the winds of conviction blow as they may. If you choose not to, I will, because it is needed and extremely relevant to the faith of believers as part of the doctrine of Christ and the church. Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth.

Feel free to post from the link I provided. I have learned to try to post excerpts along with the link to try to keep things short. I would prefer you continue the discussion on Baptism not as a physical, but as a spiritual act which happens to require a physical element. I snuck in the concept of Finney requiring a profession and how it is similarly related to the controversies associated with the physical aspect of Baptism - also a good topic for discussion. As pertaining to the Organized Religion aspects of the practices, that too may be worthy of your thoughtful commentary for discussion and edification of the participants. The Body of Believers and who is their head as it pertains to belief, profession, and immersion (baptism) is also pertinent ... carry on ...

 

[BradC]

We get the truth from The word of God, not trying to pull things from our brothers and sisters eyes when we cant see well ourselves beacuse of the thing in our own eyes..so please ppl stop looking for excuses to continue this behavour, it is something the Lord hates.

If you want to give that message to anyone you need to consider giving it to Zone and more than just once.

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

Whatever. We should focus on Christ and less on the other religions. We bog down on everything except how great our God Who alone can save remains. Love the Lord thy God with all thy strength. He alone is worthy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Roger, you seem to be affirming the concept of Freemasonry (and that at it's lowest levels of practice) in our religions. If so, your idea of 'christ' is really Lucifer and that as Satanism. The Lesser Keys of Solomon are lay practices of the lower degrees of freemasonry (simply put, witchcraft) and led to the fall of Israel and continue to lead to the fall of nations. This is not even necessarily saying "The Masons" but rather, the lay practices of freemasonry as sown by higher level masons in the churches and Bible Colleges, schools, corporations and in the government - it's an old disguise ... Is this what you are affirming Roger - say on ...

Index - The Question of Freemasonry

Weighing the counsel of Finney and Moody re: Freemasonry

 

[notuptome]

Roger, you seem to be affirming the concept of Freemasonry (and that at it's lowest levels of practice) in our religions. If so, your idea of 'christ' is really Lucifer and that as Satanism. The Lesser Keys of Solomon are lay practices of the lower degrees of freemasonry (simply put, witchcraft) and led to the fall of Israel and continue to lead to the fall of nations. This is not even necessarily saying "The Masons" but rather, the lay practices of freemasonry as sown by higher level masons in the churches and Bible Colleges, schools, corporations and in the government - it's an old disguise ... Is this what you are affirming Roger - say on ...

Index - The Question of Freemasonry

Weighing the counsel of Finney and Moody re: Freemasonry

View attachment 62149

You seem to have fallen and hit your head. Why do you identify yourself as a Christian?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[zone]

Another thing, if I may,

this water baptism by immersion

that we have as NT believers

was never given to Israel or its commonwealth


because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and

that baptism is
for the church
who are in Christ
through the new birth.

hmm...just not sure why this is permitted - it is bankrupt and satanic heresy, and a complete repudiation of everything the simple simple simple Bible says.



...

anyway,

enlarged for the the spiritually blind - just in case.

color coded for possible penetration of the dark cloud of total delusion and the above false gospel (there is an eternal curse reserved by the real Paul for other gospels (not the mystery gentile church age gap dispensation false preacher gospel false apostle non-Paul paul)

recorded forever by Israelite Peter, speaking to all the house of Israel.

RED - references to israel
BLUE - references to baptism
GREEN - references to Jesus, The Promise, The Holy Spirit, God Working, the New Birth, The Church His Body.
PURPLE - buy a clue


Acts 2
Let all the house of Israel

therefore know for certain
that God has
made him both Lord and Christ
this Jesus whom you crucified.

Now when they heard this
they were cut to the heart
and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles

“Brothers, what shall we do?”

And Peter said to them

- Repent
- and be baptized
- every one of you
- in the name of Jesus Christ
- for the forgiveness of your sins
- and you
- will receive the gift
- of the Holy Spirit.

For the promise
is for you and for your children
and for all who are far off
everyone whom the Lord our God
calls to himself.

And with many other words
he bore witness
and continued to exhort them saying
Save yourselves from this crooked generation.

So those who received his word were baptized,

and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

...


RED - references to israel
BLUE - references to baptism
GREEN - references to Jesus, The Promise, The Holy Spirit, God Working, the New Birth, The Church His Body.
PURPLE - buy a clue

 

[zone]

Another thing, if I may,

this water baptism by immersion

that we have as NT believers

was never given to Israel or its commonwealth

because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and

that baptism is
for the church
who are in Christ
through the new birth.

hmm...just not sure why this is permitted - it is bankrupt and satanic heresy, and a complete repudiation of everything the simple simple simple Bible says.

...

anyway, here it is in simple B&W - just in case of possible penetration of the dark cloud of total delusion and the above false gospel (there is an eternal curse reserved by the real Paul for other gospels (not the mystery gentile church age gap dispensation false preacher gospel false apostle non-Paul paul)

recorded forever by Israelite Peter, speaking to all the house of Israel.

Acts 2
Let all the house of Israel

therefore know for certain
that God has
made him both Lord and Christ
this Jesus whom you crucified.

Now when they heard this
they were cut to the heart
and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles

“Brothers, what shall we do?”

And Peter said to them

- Repent
- and be baptized
- every one of you
- in the name of Jesus Christ
- for the forgiveness of your sins
- and you
- will receive the gift
- of the Holy Spirit.

For the promise
is for you and for your children
and for all who are far off
everyone whom the Lord our God
calls to himself.

And with many other words
he bore witness
and continued to exhort them saying
Save yourselves from this crooked generation.

So those who received his word were baptized,

and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Another thing, if I may,

this water baptism by immersion

that we have as NT believers

was never given to Israel or its commonwealth

because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and

that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth.

like....is there anyone there...

hello....how can this be....blink blink....not knowing how this settles in a mind.
not knowing.

terrifying.

....

 

[notuptome]

hmm...just not sure why this is permitted - it is bankrupt and satanic heresy, and a complete repudiation of everything the simple simple simple Bible says.



...

anyway,

enlarged for the the spiritually blind - just in case.

color coded for possible penetration of the dark cloud of total delusion and the above false gospel (there is an eternal curse reserved by the real Paul for other gospels (not the mystery gentile church age gap dispensation false preacher gospel false apostle non-Paul paul)

recorded forever by Israelite Peter, speaking to all the house of Israel.

RED - references to israel
BLUE - references to baptism
GREEN - references to Jesus, The Promise, The Holy Spirit, God Working, the New Birth, The Church His Body.
PURPLE - buy a clue


Acts 2
Let all the house of Israel

therefore know for certain
that God has
made him both Lord and Christ
this Jesus whom you crucified.

Now when they heard this
they were cut to the heart
and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles

“Brothers, what shall we do?”

And Peter said to them

- Repent
- and be baptized
- every one of you
- in the name of Jesus Christ
- for the forgiveness of your sins
- and you
- will receive the gift
- of the Holy Spirit.

For the promise
is for you and for your children
and for all who are far off
everyone whom the Lord our God
calls to himself.

And with many other words
he bore witness
and continued to exhort them saying
Save yourselves from this crooked generation.

So those who received his word were baptized,

and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

...


RED - references to israel
BLUE - references to baptism
GREEN - references to Jesus, The Promise, The Holy Spirit, God Working, the New Birth, The Church His Body.
PURPLE - buy a clue

If we take your assertion that Peter is speaking of water baptism then we construct a conflict with what is taught later in Acts 8:37 where Philip and the eunuch enter into the water only after he the eunuch confessed that he believed. Enter the water unsaved leave the water wet and unsaved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[zone]

If we take your assertion that Peter is speaking of water baptism then we construct a conflict with what is taught later in Acts 8:37 where Philip and the eunuch enter into the water only after he the eunuch confessed that he believed. Enter the water unsaved leave the water wet and unsaved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

MY assertion

And Peter said to them

- Repent

- and be baptized
- every one of you
- in the name of Jesus Christ
- for the forgiveness of your sins

- and you will receive the gift
- of the Holy Spirit.

....

anyways....

For the promise
is for you
and for your children

....

Acts 16:15
When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. "If you consider me a believer in the Lord," she said, "come and stay at my house." And she persuaded us.

i dont care if you baptize children or not.

i want BradC Red33 to answer to his false gospel.

 

[zone]

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC

You need to post this article by Charles Spurgeon and let the winds of conviction blow as they may. If you choose not to, I will, because it is needed and extremely relevant to the faith of believers as part of the doctrine of Christ and the church.

Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth.

wait......what:

this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers
was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because
this baptism involves resurrection
out with the old and in with the new
a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man
and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth.

it does i thought you said it does not.

that, at this point is neither here nor there...this is what you need to answer to - and why no one else is questioning this is beyond me:

never given to Israel
that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth.

the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.
​never given to Israel

 

[nathan3]

If you want to give that message to anyone you need to consider giving it to Zone and more than just once.

Singling out Zone isnt going to do any good if we are still doing it also. Proverbs 6:16-19 KJV - These six things doth the LORD hate: - Bible Gateway

 

[zone]

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC

You need to post this article by Charles Spurgeon and let the winds of conviction blow as they may. If you choose not to, I will, because it is needed and extremely relevant to the faith of believers as part of the doctrine of Christ and the church.

Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth.

wait......what:

this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers
was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because
this baptism involves resurrection
out with the old and in with the new
a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man
and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth.

it does:confused: i thought you said it does not.



that, at this point is neither here nor there...this is what you need to answer to - and why no one else is questioning this is beyond me:

never given to Israel
that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth.

the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.
​never given to Israel

PLEASE ADDRESS THIS.

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

You seem to have fallen and hit your head. Why do you identify yourself as a Christian?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Fess up roger, the system is exposed, you have no doctrine in your religion, there is a better way - affirm the scriptural truth that Jesus "The Christ", what Spurgeon and Finney and Moody had to lay it down for - the real Christ has Arisen, not stuck in the lower realms --

 

[BradC]

This might clear some things up for you, but I have my doubts. I'll let another say it this way.

AT PENTECOST 'The unbelieving Jews, rebuked by John the Baptist and Jesus, were cut off from the Jews who did believe and who now formed the Church. The Gentiles who came to believe later through Paul's preaching would be added to the believing Jews. These Gentiles did not become Jews. They became the spiritual sons of Abraham by faith after the Spirit. They became members of the one body of Christ. All of these believers would be counted as the spiritual children of Abraham and would be the dwelling place of God in the Spirit. According to God's plan, the unbelieving Jews would be dispersed, to be regathered in the latter days when God brings out the final remnant from natural Israel. Until then, the gospel would be preached to all nations, to the Jews and the Gentiles alike'.

 

[BradC]

A Quote by David J. Stewart
Martin Luther Taught the Baptismal Regeneration Heresy

Contrary to what most Christians have been misled to believe by handed-down tradition, Martin Luther was an unsaved reprobate. Just because Luther once stated that the just shall live by faith doesn't mean that he was saved. Every Church of Christ member believes the just shall live by faith, but they also require water baptism to be saved. It may seem like a trifle issue, but it is the difference between Heaven and Hell. Eternal life is a free gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Lutherans errantly teach that one's faith is demonstrated by the act of being water baptized. This is unbiblical. There is confusion amongst Lutheran churches whether water baptism is required for salvation or not; but their heretical founder,Martin Luther, clearly taught the false doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration. Luther was a lifelong Mary-worshipper. Luther was messed up doctrinally, and died in his sins as an unsaved reprobate. Martin Luther even taught that a person could be saved without faith, just so long as they were water baptized. Luther was a false prophet until the day he died, and sadly his writings are still leading people into Hell. It is tragic that Lutherans idolize such a doctrinally corrupt heretic. Luther rejected the book of Revelation because he couldn't understand it.
What people should be focusing on, instead of the ceremony of baptism, is the precious blood of Jesus Christ that takes our sins away... "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."

 

[zone]

A Quote by David J. Stewart
Martin Luther Taught the Baptismal Regeneration Heresy

Contrary to what most Christians have been misled to believe by handed-down tradition, Martin Luther was an unsaved reprobate. Just because Luther once stated that the just shall live by faith doesn't mean that he was saved. Every Church of Christ member believes the just shall live by faith, but they also require water baptism to be saved. It may seem like a trifle issue, but it is the difference between Heaven and Hell. Eternal life is a free gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Lutherans errantly teach that one's faith is demonstrated by the act of being water baptized. This is unbiblical. There is confusion amongst Lutheran churches whether water baptism is required for salvation or not; but their heretical founder,Martin Luther, clearly taught the false doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration. Luther was a lifelong Mary-worshipper. Luther was messed up doctrinally, and died in his sins as an unsaved reprobate. Martin Luther even taught that a person could be saved without faith, just so long as they were water baptized. Luther was a false prophet until the day he died, and sadly his writings are still leading people into Hell. It is tragic that Lutherans idolize such a doctrinally corrupt heretic. Luther rejected the book of Revelation because he couldn't understand it.
What people should be focusing on, instead of the ceremony of baptism, is the precious blood of Jesus Christ that takes our sins away... "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."

i get you hate Luther, that's clear.
and that's a-okay with me.
i doubt he'd agree with much of your theology anyways.
....

some help for you:

Lutherans don't worship Luther....silly
he's only been mentioned x2 times in passing, since i've been attending.

...

Luther's teachings are not considered canon
Lutheran Confessions are not considered canon....the BOC is not even required dogma for laity, Redster:

"....the creeds and the Small Catechism are the confessions for our laity and no one should demand a level of subscription beyond that—something very few laity could make in good conscience." - Diane Grimm, LCMS Church Information Center
...

Luther didn't write any commentary on the book of Revelation - maybe he didn't understand it, so perhaps it's better he didn't expound on it....maybe some others shouldn't either < you and other uber-dispies. just a suggestion.

....

having said that:

hi Redster you said, with authority:

"Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth." - BradC

water baptism.....involves resurrection
out with the old and in with the new
a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man
that baptism is for the church
who are in Christ through the new birth
water baptism.....involves resurrection

your source, David J. Stewart (who i am not yet familiar with) said:

"Lutherans errantly teach that one's faith is demonstrated by the act of being water baptized".

so again, as you run to and fro with your mission, did you want to recant your statement below:?

water baptism.....involves resurrection

cuz it conflicts wildly with your earlier assertion that water baptism is not even an afterthought according to the [gospel] thing you say Paul taught.


Good Luck in your endeavors.
i'll do my best to help you through this.
Zone

 

[zone]

A Quote by David J. Stewart
Martin Luther Taught the Baptismal Regeneration Heresy

Contrary to what most Christians have been misled to believe by handed-down tradition, Martin Luther was an unsaved reprobate. Just because Luther once stated that the just shall live by faith doesn't mean that he was saved. Every Church of Christ member believes the just shall live by faith, but they also require water baptism to be saved. It may seem like a trifle issue, but it is the difference between Heaven and Hell. Eternal life is a free gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Lutherans errantly teach that one's faith is demonstrated by the act of being water baptized. This is unbiblical. There is confusion amongst Lutheran churches whether water baptism is required for salvation or not; but their heretical founder,Martin Luther, clearly taught the false doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration. Luther was a lifelong Mary-worshipper. Luther was messed up doctrinally, and died in his sins as an unsaved reprobate. Martin Luther even taught that a person could be saved without faith, just so long as they were water baptized. Luther was a false prophet until the day he died, and sadly his writings are still leading people into Hell. It is tragic that Lutherans idolize such a doctrinally corrupt heretic. Luther rejected the book of Revelation because he couldn't understand it.
What people should be focusing on, instead of the ceremony of baptism, is the precious blood of Jesus Christ that takes our sins away... "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."

jesusisaviour.com?

mkay.

How to Go to Heaven

"Perhaps you'd feel comfortable praying a sinner's prayer as did the publican in Luke 18:13... “And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto Heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.”

Dear Jesus,
I admit that I am a sinner deserving of Hell. I believe that you died, were buried and rose again. Please forgive me of my sins and take me to Heaven when I die. I now believe upon You alone, apart from all self-righteous works and religion, as my personal Savior. Thank you. Amen.

Just as you were born physically to your parents, so you were born spiritually into the Family of God when you received Jesus!"

....

just like that. right Redster

dont forget this part of your salvational doctrine:

The Pretribulation Rapture

by David J. Stewart

The Bible clearly teaches that the Rapture occurs BEFORE the Tribulation, and the Tribulation occurs BEFORE the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ from Jerusalem.

junk theology

 

[zone]

This might clear some things up for you, but I have my doubts. I'll let another say it this way.

AT PENTECOST 'The unbelieving Jews, rebuked by John the Baptist and Jesus, were cut off from the Jews who did believe and who now formed the Church. The Gentiles who came to believe later through Paul's preaching would be added to the believing Jews. These Gentiles did not become Jews. They became the spiritual sons of Abraham by faith after the Spirit. They became members of the one body of Christ. All of these believers would be counted as the spiritual children of Abraham and would be the dwelling place of God in the Spirit. According to God's plan, the unbelieving Jews would be dispersed, to be regathered in the latter days when God brings out the final remnant from natural Israel. Until then, the gospel would be preached to all nations, to the Jews and the Gentiles alike'.

could you PLEASE cite your sources...thanks (again).

THE CHURCH AND ISRAEL IN SCRIPTURE

Please link to this page if you want to use
this series rather than placing it on your own home page.
Also, please do not use excerpts, but reproduce the entire page intact.
Part 8: The Mystery Of God Revealed To Save Both Jew And Gentile

why you use sources who disagree with your fundamental (false) doctrines, Redster - i do not know....thrashing maybe..

if you go to your source via the link, you would see that he disagrees with you that there are 2 plans and 2 peoples and Israel not included.

he seems to align for the most part with the true gospel, that there is only one body of Christ and it consists of both Jewish and Gentile believers.

k.....trying to help ya.

 

[SarahM777]

A Quote by David J. Stewart
Martin Luther Taught the Baptismal Regeneration Heresy

Contrary to what most Christians have been misled to believe by handed-down tradition, Martin Luther was an unsaved reprobate. Just because Luther once stated that the just shall live by faith doesn't mean that he was saved. Every Church of Christ member believes the just shall live by faith, but they also require water baptism to be saved. It may seem like a trifle issue, but it is the difference between Heaven and Hell. Eternal life is a free gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Lutherans errantly teach that one's faith is demonstrated by the act of being water baptized. This is unbiblical. There is confusion amongst Lutheran churches whether water baptism is required for salvation or not; but their heretical founder,Martin Luther, clearly taught the false doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration. Luther was a lifelong Mary-worshipper. Luther was messed up doctrinally, and died in his sins as an unsaved reprobate. Martin Luther even taught that a person could be saved without faith, just so long as they were water baptized. Luther was a false prophet until the day he died, and sadly his writings are still leading people into Hell. It is tragic that Lutherans idolize such a doctrinally corrupt heretic. Luther rejected the book of Revelation because he couldn't understand it.
What people should be focusing on, instead of the ceremony of baptism, is the precious blood of Jesus Christ that takes our sins away... "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."

HMM So what did Luther actually teach?

[SIZE=+3]UNDERSTANDING WHAT LUTHER TAUGHT[/SIZE][SIZE=+3]
[/SIZE][h=1][SIZE=+4]ABOUT BAPTISM[/SIZE][/h]A Study ByGary Ray Branscome

Martin Luther’s statements about baptism are often misunderstood, and those who misunderstand them usually misrepresent what he taught. Therefore, let me begin by emphasizing the fact that he never claimed that anyone could be saved apart from faith in Christ. On the contrary, he was emphatic about the necessity of faith in Christ, and made it perfectly clear that “to seek the efficacy of the sacrament apart from the promise and apart from faith [in Christ], is to labor in vain and to find damnation.” (From Luther’s essay, “THE BABYLONIAN CAPTIVITY OF CHURCH”.)

In order to understand Luther’s views on baptism, you need to begin with what the Apostle Paul taught about the relationship of God’s grace to His promises (see Galatians 3). In short, the Bible makes it clear that God’s grace only comes to us through His promises, and what is promised only becomes ours through faith in Christ (2Corinthians 1:20, Galatians 3:18, 22). Therefore, even though God uses baptism (just as He uses preaching) to give us His promise, it is only through personal faith in Christ that we receive what is promised (Romans 5:2, Galatians 3:14). That is why Luther said, “Even so it is not baptism that justifies or benefits anyone, but it is faith in the word of promise, to which baptism is added. This faith justifies, and fulfils that which baptism signifies.” (“THE BABYLONIAN CAPTIVITY OF CHURCH”) And, that is why Dr. Walter A. Maier (founder of the Lutheran-Hour broadcast) said,

Do not be misled by those who say that Baptism is not important. They contradict Christ. They put their own opinion above Scripture. Take Jesus at His word, and you will find that through Baptism — and I mean of course, not merely the performance of the ritual itself, but by your personal faith in Jesus and in His promise — the Holy Ghost unmistakably comes to you.” (“The Power of Pentecost”, 1943)
​

Furthermore, Luther made it perfectly clear as to what promise he was talking about when he said, “The first thing in baptism to be considered is the divine promise, which says: “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.” This promise must be set far above all the glitter of works, vows, religious orders, and whatever man has added to it. For on it all our salvation depends.” (“THE BABYLONIAN CAPTIVITY OF CHURCH”)

That having been said, it should be clear that Luther saw baptism as nothing more than a ceremonial way of telling the person being baptized that he has forgiveness in Christ. Or, as Lutheran theologian and educator C.F.W. Walther put it “Just as Scripture does not teach (as the simplest Christian knows) that the mere outward act of hearing the Word saves any one, just as little does it teach that the Sacraments save thus. The mere symbol, placed before men’s eyes, does not produce the salutary effect, but indicates what the Word proclaims. We baptize with water, which signifies that Baptism effects cleansing from sin, sanctification, regeneration, and renewal. What I am being told by means of preaching I behold in the external element of Baptism. The Word and the Sacrament produce the same effect in the heart.” (Law and Gospel, page 357)

[h=3]THE EX OPERE OPERATO HERESY[/h] Luther not only did not teach that baptism would save ex opere operato (that is, by the mere performance of a sacramental act) but he emphatically opposed that doctrine, as the following statement by Dr. John Warwick Montgomery (Lutheran theologian and educator), reveals.

“Luther’s actual objection to the church of his day was that it had become an end in itself, and no longer a means to an end. Luther’s real objection was that the church had become SACRAMENTALISTIC, that is to say, people went to church feeling that if they took part in the prescribed sacramental rituals, in some automatic fashion their problem of God-relationship would be taken care of for them. They regarded the sacramental rites ex opere operato, as works having power already inherent in them – as virtually automatic means of salvation.” (“Damned through the Church,” page 55)
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During the Middle Ages someone came up with the idea that the words of consecration somehow empower the sacrament to convey God’s grace ex opere operato, whenever the rite is performed. Of course, that view leaves out the Gospel, namely the good news of forgiveness in Christ. Which is why Luther opposed that doctrine, and why he said, “It cannot be true, therefore, that there is in the sacraments a power efficacious for justification, or that they are effective signs of grace. All such assertions tend to destroy faith, and arise from ignorance of the divine promise” (“Babylonian Captivity”). As a result, true Lutherans have always rejected the idea that “God has joined to the water a spiritual power which through the water washes away sin” (“Smalcald Articles”). However, in spite of Luther’s strong opposition to that error, it crops up from time to time. Of that problem, C.F.W. Walther had this to say:

“One would indeed think it to be utterly impossible for a Christian minister to teach that the Sacraments produce salutary effects ex opere operato; still, that is what happens again and again. This awful error is taught by the very men who wish to pass for genuinely strict Lutherans, every time they discuss the Sacraments. When they have finished unfolding their doctrine of Baptism, every hearer has received the unmistakable impression that, in order to get to heaven, it is merely necessary to submit to the act of being baptized(“Law and Gospel” page 351).
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Pay special attention to the fact that Walther does not say that these men intend to teach the ex opere operato heresy, or are even aware that they are teaching it. Instead, he says that they teach it by giving people the “impression that, in order to get to heaven, it is merely necessary to submit to the act of being baptized.”

Understanding What Luther Taught About Baptism

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. Because He is our Example, I was baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

When I am with our Savior, if I be given judgment of anyone who loves Yeshua for Who He is, my judgment would be, "Come on in, child of the Most High God." This is how I believe things are.

Frankly, I think a lot of folks strain at the gnat in many of the threads........God bless all in Yeshua, amen.