Pre Trib Rapture Moment 11: What will trigger the rapture?

[konroh]

Good question LT. I think the answer is found in the aspects of the Jewish wedding. There are two parts. First, the bridegroom comes to the bride's house to take her from her parent's home. There certain religious ceremonies were observed. Then the bridegroom comes triumphantly to his own home bringing the bride with him. The marriage supper of the Lamb appears to have these two aspects. Jesus has come and taken his bride the Church from her home and Rev. 19 shows Him returning triumphantly with His bride.

Obviously this analogy is illustrative, not definitive. Is Jesus' home in heaven or on earth? I'd have to say both. He has a heavenly kingdom and an earthly one.

 

[Enow]

Good question LT. I think the answer is found in the aspects of the Jewish wedding. There are two parts. First, the bridegroom comes to the bride's house to take her from her parent's home. There certain religious ceremonies were observed. Then the bridegroom comes triumphantly to his own home bringing the bride with him. The marriage supper of the Lamb appears to have these two aspects. Jesus has come and taken his bride the Church from her home and Rev. 19 shows Him returning triumphantly with His bride.

Obviously this analogy is illustrative, not definitive. Is Jesus' home in heaven or on earth? I'd have to say both. He has a heavenly kingdom and an earthly one.

By His grace, I see the verses below as signifying the Marriage Supper, taking us to where He is now in our Father's mansion.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [SUP]2 [/SUP]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[Isdaniel]

By His grace, I see the verses below as signifying the Marriage Supper, taking us to where He is now in our Father's mansion.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [SUP]2 [/SUP]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

At what time will will we go to this mansion ?

Will this mansin ever touch the earth ?

 

[Enow]

At what time will will we go to this mansion ?

Will this mansin ever touch the earth ?

New Jerusalem and her inhabitants will come down from Heaven at the end of the great tribulation at His coming.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Are you making the assumption that the 'roar that sounded like a great multitude' is the Church? If so, you must remedy why they are proclaiming the Marriage Supper of the Lamb as coming at the 2nd Advent of Christ at the end of the Trib. Why wouldn't they be proclaiming that the Marriage Supper had just ended, and now they were on their way back to earth? According to your view, wouldn't the marriage supper be during the 7 year tribulation?

Scripture says we will be 'changed' instantly when we are caught up and/or raised from the dead. It also says we will meet Him in the clouds. Sounds like He's coming down, we meet up with Him, and we are instantly changed into the Armies of Heaven clothed in white.

Hi there LT,

I believe that from what the Scriptures teach, that the Marriage Supper of the Lamb begins sometime right before the Second Advent. And I believe that the Honeymoon takes place on Earth in the 1,000 Year Reign of the Lord Jesus Christ.


The Marriage Supper of the Lamb therefore, takes place sometime after the Judgment Seat of Christ.


We meet the Lord in the air when we are caught up in the clouds with the other saints who are in Christ Jesus (1 Thess. 4:16-17). Then after we meet the Lord in the air, we enter the Judgment Seat of Christ. So, the Rapture is definitely before the time of Jacob's trouble.

 

[Kerry]

wow!! do people read the bible or listen to what somebody else said?

 

[Linda70]

wow!! do people read the bible or listen to what somebody else said?

In these "last days" people are "checking their minds in at the door" and allowing someone else (their "guru" or "theologian") do their thinking for them. It's called "brainwashing"!

 

[konroh]

John 14 should be translated "In my Father's house there are many rooms." This is actually the Old English definition of the word mansion. It's not "In my Father's house there are many mansions." That makes no sense to us, but the original KJV reader would understand, mansions meant rooms. Just food for thought.

 

[Enow]

John 14 should be translated "In my Father's house there are many rooms." This is actually the Old English definition of the word mansion. It's not "In my Father's house there are many mansions." That makes no sense to us, but the original KJV reader would understand, mansions meant rooms. Just food for thought.

I do not believe so. At this link you can see for yourself:

John Chapter 14 - King James Bible With Strong's Dictionary - Bible Software by johnhurt.com

Plus: this being the reason why since the city of Zion or New Jerusalem would have this below and not just rooms.

Psalm 48:Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]God is known in her palaces for a refuge.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For, lo, the kings were assembled, they passed by together.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]They saw it, and so they marvelled; they were troubled, and hasted away.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Fear took hold upon them there, and pain, as of a woman in travail.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Thou breakest the ships of Tarshish with an east wind.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]As we have heard, so have we seen in the city of the Lord of hosts, in the city of our God: God will establish it for ever. Selah.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]We have thought of thy lovingkindness, O God, in the midst of thy temple.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]According to thy name, O God, so is thy praise unto the ends of the earth: thy right hand is full of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let mount Zion rejoice, let the daughters of Judah be glad, because of thy judgments.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Walk about Zion, and go round about her: tell the towers thereof.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Mark ye well her bulwarks, consider her palaces; that ye may tell it to the generation following.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For this God is our God for ever and ever: he will be our guide even unto death.

So there be many palaces... hence many mansions. We are promised manifold sisters, mothers, and brothers and so I am wondering how He will give the elect their places and whom they will be sharing it with.

 

[Anonimous]

There is one thing that we can agree on. Jesus IS coming again. That is the Primary thing to remember. The How and When is Secondary. Let's focus on the What.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

John 14 should be translated "In my Father's house there are many rooms." This is actually the Old English definition of the word mansion. It's not "In my Father's house there are many mansions." That makes no sense to us, but the original KJV reader would understand, mansions meant rooms. Just food for thought.

The rendering of "mansions" in John 14 in the King James Bible is correct.

Jn14:2 mansions - Another King James Bible Believer

 

[LT]

The rendering of "mansions" in John 14 in the King James Bible is correct.

Jn14:2 mansions - Another King James Bible Believer

The link is reported for phishing btw. you should check the source. I can't even view it from my campus computer.

And 'mansions' is no longer correct. It sounds pretty, and was correct at one point, but in modern English if someone says 'mansion' it refers to a massive house, not an 'apartment', which it used to mean back in the 1600's.

Words change. Why cling to unused vocab?
Read the NASB. It is God's infallible Word.

KJV is based on Textus Receptus, which was made by a Catholic. It's a Vaticanized version. It is marred by back-translations from the Vulgate.

 

[PlainWord]

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 - "51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

An angel won't come and ask you whether you want to get raptured or not. If you're saved, you'll be changed in a moment, there isn't a time where an angel asks whether you want to go through the time of Jacob's trouble or not. Think about it, the Rapture for the bride of Christ, so that they won't get God's wrath poured out on them, so why would someone want to go through the time where they can lose their salvation. Moreover, Christians are sealed until the day of redemption, therefore they can't go through a time where it's possible for them to lose their salvation. Do you believe that Christians can lose their salvation then?

Jeremiah 30:7 describes who the main focus of the 70th week of Daniel is for -

Jeremiah 30:7 - "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it."

The time of Jacob's trouble isn't for the church, but for the Jews; for Israel.

Then perhaps my young friend you won't be fooled because if an angel comes to you, you will send him away even if you believe in the Rapture.

The Bride of Christ does not get Raptured. The Bride of Christ is not just the Church, it is for Israel too, see Hosea 2.

God's wrath is NOT poured out on His faithful so you don't have to worry about God's wrath during the Tribulation.

Don't confuse the Time of Jacob's trouble with the Tribulation. They are not the same thing. Israel is attacked during the Tribulation from enemies from all sides. The Tribulation is the test or temptation of Satan and it is for the whole world, Rev 3:10.

 

[PlainWord]

In these "last days" people are "checking their minds in at the door" and allowing someone else (their "guru" or "theologian") do their thinking for them. It's called "brainwashing"!

I agree!! That is exactly what Pre-Tribbers are doing. For Christ states clearly that He returns "Immediately AFTER" the tribulation. Yet the vast majority of Christian churches preach He comes before even though there is not ONE SINGLE verse that states this and plenty that warn against such belief. Talk about brainwashing, good grief...

 

[Isdaniel]

New Jerusalem and her inhabitants will come down from Heaven at the end of the great tribulation at His coming.

Watttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt please explain in more detail new Jerusalem on this curse earth

 

[LT]

Watttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt please explain in more detail new Jerusalem on this curse earth

true. New Jerusalem, New Heaven, and New Earth are required.

 

[konroh]

Here is Strong's definition of the word translated "mansion" in the KJV

moné: an abiding, an abode​

Original Word: μονή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: moné
Phonetic Spelling: (mon-ay')
Short Definition: lodging, dwelling-place, room
Definition: lodging, dwelling-place, room, abode, mansion.

Here is the definition from dictionary.com
man·sion

[man-shuh

n] Show IPA
noun 1. a very large, impressive, or stately residence.

2. manor house.

3. Often, mansions. British . a large building with many apartments; apartment house.

4. Oriental and Medieval Astronomy . each of 28 divisions of the ecliptic occupied by the moon on successive days.

5. Archaic. an abode or dwelling place.

The 5th definition is the one used by the KJV translators, they understood the Greek and put it into an English word that meant abode or dwelling place, which was "mansion" in the venerable year 1611.

 

[konroh]

If we are to have intelligent discussion, we've got to stop with the
[h=1]tu quoque[/h] [h=3]You avoided having to engage with criticism by turning it back on the accuser - you answered criticism with criticism.[/h]Example: There is no verse that says that the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation. Untrue. 1 Thess. 4 occurs before the discussion of the "day of the Lord" discussion in ch. 5. Also 2 Thess. 2 has the "restrainer" being removed before the Antichrist. The Pre-trib position believes this to be Holy Spirit filled Raptured saints.

You may dispute the evidence of this, but you can't deny its existence. I can just as soon say "There is no verse that says the Rapture occurs after the Tribulation." It says there's a gathering by the angels, but this appears to be a gathering on earth, not a Rapture/resurrection since those gathered stay on earth. So to me there's no verse that has a Rapture occurring after the Tribulation, a gathering, sure, but no "caught up together with them in the clouds."

No more blustering.

I know, this is an internet forum, I could just as soon say, no more typing, but it's awfully fun to pretend I can make a dent in the blustering.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

The link is reported for phishing btw. you should check the source. I can't even view it from my campus computer.

And 'mansions' is no longer correct. It sounds pretty, and was correct at one point, but in modern English if someone says 'mansion' it refers to a massive house, not an 'apartment', which it used to mean back in the 1600's.

Words change. Why cling to unused vocab?
Read the NASB. It is God's infallible Word.

KJV is based on Textus Receptus, which was made by a Catholic. It's a Vaticanized version. It is marred by back-translations from the Vulgate.

The rendering of Mansions is correct.


The NASB is not God's infallible word. In Psalm 78:36, the NASB says that God was deceived. And that's wrong. God cannot be deceived. God is all knowing.

Here is a good article that covers many of the changes and revisions which the NASB has gone through:


ever changing NASBs - Another King James Bible Believer


If you want a copy of God's perfect and infallible word, then just get a King James Bible.

Also, the King James Bible is not a Vaticanized version. The King James Bible is the English Bible of the protestant reformation.


And it is the modern versions (NIV, ESV, NLT, AMP, etc.) that are vaticanized. That's why the modern versions are based on the Siniaticus and Vaticanus Greek texts.

 

[LT]

The rendering of Mansions is correct.


The NASB is not God's infallible word. In Psalm 78:36, the NASB says that God was deceived. And that's wrong. God cannot be deceived. God is all knowing.

Here is a good article that covers many of the changes and revisions which the NASB has gone through:


ever changing NASBs - Another King James Bible Believer


If you want a copy of God's perfect and infallible word, then just get a King James Bible.

Also, the King James Bible is not a Vaticanized version. The King James Bible is the English Bible of the protestant reformation.


And it is the modern versions (NIV, ESV, NLT, AMP, etc.) that are vaticanized. That's why the modern versions are based on the Siniaticus and Vaticanus Greek texts.

Nope, the NASB is the infallible Word of God. If the Word of God says it, I believe it.

KJV is a rip-off of the Geneva Bible which is the Bible of the Reformation. KJV is really a late-post Reformation version.