What Laws are still valid to christians

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,259
395
83
Read 1 Cor,6:11 carefully, "But you were washed..sanctified...justified.." Homward, have you been washed and sanctified? This is the new birth,"made" holy in our nature, a new "heart" are you a "new creation" by God's power in side you? Or do you think all you new is 'justified" forgiven? If you have never been "born of God" ,as a baby is born in to a family, you are not in God's family. love to all, Hoffco
You have already been told truth that yes this is a done deal, born again here and now in the resurrected Christ a free gift from Father. FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you go on and struggle to do what God already did for you
You read it again are you washed I am, are you sanctified I am, Justified I am it is done by Christ and those verses say so
Thank you for the confirmation, praying you see it as well
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
Homward, are you claiming to have no sin? if so, you are calling God a liar, how can you be saved? You then are living in sin and blind to the truth of the Bible, how can a perfectionist
pharisee be saved, by repenting of his sin, and begin a holy life in Jesus power and mercy. love Hoffco0
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,259
395
83
Well my friend, they looked forward to the Kingdom of God...

Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Yes absolute truth and today in being born of the Spirit of God I see it
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

And then Paul says in romans 6 how can we who are now dead to sin do any more sin or don't we know what Christ did and you by believing Christ what that did
[h=3]Romans 6[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: [SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
No one is born of God by the death and res. of Jesus. Jesus death was a historical fact but it did not save anyone, we are saved Now, inour life time, by the new birth experience, Hoffco
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,259
395
83
I will have to write a new post. to see if your respond to my last post, or my PC will not show it to me; I need to get it repaired. Homwardbound, If your are like Chuck Swindol and many others who teach a false sal. of "faith alone" , you will not know what it means to be born again. You will think it is just "receiveing Jesus as your savior" and not a radical brake from the sin nature to become an "overcomer" conquering the old sin nature, delievered from sinning habitually. Many today have received Jesus but are not saved. love to all, Hoffco
If it is as you just said by us overcoming then n o one will ever ne saved and Christ's death for us was and is meaningless

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,259
395
83
Homward, If you are not a man of "good works" ,you are not saved! This is what Jesus taught. Jh. 5:28-29 Jh.3:21. The saved mans good works are rewarded with eternal llife. "sow to the Spirit and reap eternal life" Gal.6:7-10. Hoffco
Good Job at mixing Law and the grace of /God/
Under the Law before the cross under a cursed no man can perform the Law.
After the cross and after Pentecost, in reception of the gift of God the holy Ghost one is completed in the Spirit of God. reckons him self dead to flesh and alive to God
Romans 6:11 Likewise
reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ephesians 2:9 not of works, lest any man should boast.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
No one is born of God by the death and res. of Jesus. Jesus death was a historical fact but it did not save anyone, we are saved Now, inour life time, by the new birth experience, Hoffco
We are saved by His resurrection to life.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,259
395
83
Homward, are you claiming to have no sin? if so, you are calling God a liar, how can you be saved? You then are living in sin and blind to the truth of the Bible, how can a perfectionist
pharisee be saved, by repenting of his sin, and begin a holy life in Jesus power and mercy. love Hoffco0
Go on and continue to try and trap as they did in Christ's day,
No never once said I have no sin, and never said "I" won't sin again
"I" said God is sinless and God and God is the only one righteous, the same as Christ said in Matt. 19 to that rich man that obeyed Law from birth on and walked away sad why? read it, because no not one is prefect no not one except God period.
Now God came to earth through Son to redeem us, reconcile us through Son We have the message of:

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2 Corinthians 5:19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

What does Reconciled mean Hoffco are we or are we not reconciled by God? Is it done or is it not? Free choice take a drink and swallow it and you will never thirst again/
time to swallow this water, and quit swishing it around in our mouths and spitting it back out, and going out on works of our own
Time to transfer from death to life if you are seeking to be co-crucified with Christ to your own selfish flesh that is as I do daily as Paul who was Saul also did and saw that he was as we are to see as well the same

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

So I see you haven not been crucified as of yet at least believe so in //Chirst for those that do believe so are:
Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Yet if I do sin again, don't know future, can't predict it so I am incredibly thank you that I have:
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

So the only way one can stop is by dying to self daily one day at a time, being co-crucified daily with Christ and then see the new life God has given freely to you and all that choose to believe
It is not about whether one sins or not why? The reason is all one has to do is think not sin, and one either does not and becomes proud and boastful as Saul was. Or is guilt ridden never being able to escape, as I remember me I was trying so hard and couldn't see what was keeping me trapped it was my lack of belief that God by Christ made me Holy in his sight through Son's death. I saw I needed new life as you do as well right here right now and are trying hard to gain it as many others are as well and just can't make it.
Please see the door to new life in Christ is found through the death of Christ being your death to your self efforts, and alive to god learn to die daily as Paul did, Praying you see this new life here and now that Christ said he came to give you and all who believe.
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Either God will show you this truth or God will not, that simple for God will have Mercy on who god will, why? Because God knows the motive of all men
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,259
395
83
We are saved by His resurrection to life.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
100% Fact there John. that is exactly how we are saved by his resurrected life, where the Holy Ghost lives in us and through us telling others of the news, no more editing as many do of the flesh nature
It is what it is,
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

By his death we are made righteous before Father so that Father gives us the new life where we are content in all, things. too busy praising, thanking God where there is no time to sin let alone think about it any more. For it is by thinking about it whether or not one sins is where and why they sin. And if not, then self-righteous has come a pride and arrogance, and those that are God's God will send a messenger to buffet you as he did with Paul in 2 cor. 12 If not to train one in belief, keeping one humble then we are not his
I know you are getting this and trust God to sort it out Brother
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,259
395
83
No one is born of God by the death and res. of Jesus. Jesus death was a historical fact but it did not save anyone, we are saved Now, inour life time, by the new birth experience, Hoffco
definitely not by the death, yet death needed first just as a seed has to go into ground and die first before it can ever have life
Analogy for you to see Christ's death our death to self flesh first, and if we agree to be dead to self at the cross then we might see the new life if God permit here and now as Paul explained the difference and doorway through death to new life in Phil. 3, putting no confidence in flesh at all, praying you get it
 
Oct 14, 2013
4,750
21
0
What need when all are Law abiders in love sharing with each other, with their four foot forks to feed each other wiithout thinking about it doers not hearers and triers goers.

As a man thinketh so is he.
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

There is no more doubt in Heaven in the Spirit right here right now, if one sees themselves as Dead to sin as Romans 6 tries to tell each one of us truth that we by Christ are dead to sin and alive to God, by Belief in Christ's finished work for you and all, just waiting for you to believe this 100% and then it is no more you doing the works, rather it is God through you doing them. Then when flesh is redeemed and there with Charts or here wherever, matters not again it is by God perfect, no second guessing or ever even considering what is right or wrong as is what the serpent got Eve to think and then thus Adam as well and oh boy what mess that has been conceived
Man still doubting God at God's word:
So do you yet believe this below scripture to be true no doubt as to what God said is done:
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

If you do then you might see the new life God has given you. if you truly believe then you have all you need by Christ for life and godliness. It is a free gift from God through Son/
Any work for a gift before or after is not a gift in truth is it?
Romans 2
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
He does...

We being dead in trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are saved), and raised us together and seated us together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:5-6​
How's the view? Consider this passage...

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

You are there but poor old David (a man after God's own heart) didn't make it?

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
Where have we posted that Grace is license?

You seem to think that 'Grace people' walk around in a moral vacuum. They walk in light, freedom, and liberty; when sinning occurs, it gets dealt with and we move on. The Law drives sin underground; people hide in shame and condemnation and become judgemental and paranoid. I've seen it over and over and over again.

Christians sin under Grace; Christians sin under Law. Grace heals and restores; Law condemns and shames.

I choose Grace.


-JGIG
Very interesting. Without Law there is no sin, Paul tell us this in Rom 4:15 and 5:13. You are assuming that those of us who obey God believe that obedience justifies us.

I believe no such thing. Here is what I believe concerning justification...

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

It is not even my own faith that saves me, rather the faith of Christ, just as Paul shows in Eph 2:8.

So grace is applied when one breaks God's Law. It is the free, unearned, undeserved pardon for sinning against God.

Thos who believe that the Law is done away, that they do not sin, have no apreciation for the magnitude of the grace God extends to us when we sin. They have no appreciation of the cost of violating God's holy Law.
Perhaps you misread my post.

People sin. Christians, non-Christians, those under Grace, those under Law.

Where there is no law sin is not imputed - not that there is no sin.

Those in Christ have died to the Law (Rom. 7:4-6). Sin, when it does occur, and as long as we are in the flesh, it will occur, is not umputed to us.

The Scriptures say that in Christ, God reconciled the world to Himself, not counting our transgressions against us (2 Cor. 5:16-21). When sin occurs, it doesn't count against us - all sin was dealt with at the Cross. For all who receive the free gifts of Forgiveness, Righteousness, and New Life in Christ we are led by the Spirit, not by the Law.

And remember, if sinning less is your goal (a good goal, by the way!), then Law is not the way to do it.

Law was given to increase sinning:

Romans 5:20

20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.


Law stirs up sinning:


Romans 7:7-8

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.

Law produces death:


Romans 7:9-11

9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it [the commandment] killed me.

Law produces fruit unto death:


Romans 7:5

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

Law is the power of sin:


1 Corinthians 15:56

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

On the other hand, what do Grace and the Spirit produce?

Grace teaches us godliness:


Titus 2:11-14

11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It [grace] teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

The Spirit produces life:


Romans 8:5-6

5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; (see also Romans 12:1-2, 2 Corinthians 10:4-6, and Ephesians 6:14-17)

The Spirit produces the Fruits of the Spirit:


Galatians 5:22-25

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

If a reduction in sin is your goal, then Law is definitely not the way to go according to the Scriptures.

A better way has been introduced in Christ and the New Covenant ratified in His Blood; one in which we are led by Grace and His Spirit. It's a better way by which we draw near to God; there is no condemnation, and in Christ God is not counting our sins against us.

Sinning is driven underground by the Law - people hide what they're doing and the fruit inevitably pops out as works of the flesh (see Galatians 5).

-JGIG
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
No, you still don't understand. The Law defines sin. When one breaks the Law, sins, he is guilty. Unless this sin is repented of, he will suffer death. Upon repentance and Christ's forgiveness, he is now cleansed. Problem is one will never reach a point in the flesh when he does not sin. So, again, he must go to the High Priest and seek forgiveness. This is the job Christ is currently doing.
What if you forget to confess one? Is that sin not forgiven?

Christ dealt with ALL sin at the Cross. You are either a forgiven person or you're not - there is no fluctuating between the two.

The wages of sin is DEATH, not CONFESSION.

Are you alive in Christ? If so, then ALL of your sins have been forgiven, past, present, future. If it were not so, then Christ would be subjected to doing the Work of the Cross over and over and over.

Forgiveness is not a bowl that you dip into when you sin; Forgiveness is a cleansing flow in which we reside. His Grace is WAY bigger than your sinning.

What you're asserting is that Christ's Blood isn't enough for the Christian's sinning; the Christian must confess their sinning to get forgiveness. The forgiveness has already been given; AT THE CROSS. To 'ask' for it via confession is to put Christ back on the Cross, putting Him to shame.


Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Great Scriptures! Christ our Perfect High Priest sits (rests, as His Work is done) in the Heavenly Tabernacle declaring our righteous position in Him - He has made us perfect forever by ONE Sacrifice - never to be repeated (Heb. 10).

-JGIG
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
i wonder what this verse means

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Let's weigh the options:

  1. Works of the Law
  2. Works of Love, service, and the spreading of the Gospel


Let's put it this way:

  1. Dead works
  2. Works unto Life


Which do you think are gold and precious stones and wood, hay, and stubble in His sight?


1 Corinthians 3:9-15

9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 Accordingto the
grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


-JGIG
 
Oct 14, 2013
4,750
21
0
romans 7

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good ( the law ) made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
Oh, I see. Christ ended the Law...

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The word end here is...

G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.
And here, ladies and gentlemen, is a PERFECT example of the use of the Root Word Fallacy.

Notice how john832 quoted the Greek word, 'telos', G5056, that DOES appear in the text, but used the definition of a DIFFERENT word that DOES NOT appear in the actual text.

The actual definition of the ACTUAL word that God INSPIRED to be put into the text is as follows:

Romans 10:4

4 For Christ is the end (G5056) of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

G5056 - telos

  1. end
  2. termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time)
  3. the end
    1. the last in any succession or series
    2. eternal
  4. that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue
  5. the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose
    toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods)


The rest of his post is rubbish because it's built on a total linguistic fabrication.

Folks, it is common for Law 'keepers' to use the Root Word Fallacy and other linguistic and logical fallacies to 'prove' their points.

Be on the lookout for it; always go back to the original Greek in the actual text to check out what they're asserting, and look specifically for phrasing such as john832 used above, "from a primary word", or "from the root word", because right after that, they will define a word that DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE TEXT BEING DISCUSSED.
Sneaky sneaky
.

Sincerely,
The 'ignorant' JGIG
 
Oct 14, 2013
4,750
21
0
Let's weigh the options:

  1. Works of the Law
  2. Works of Love, service, and the spreading of the Gospel


Let's put it this way:

  1. Dead works
  2. Works unto Life


Which do you think are gold and precious stones and wood, hay, and stubble in His sight?


1 Corinthians 3:9-15

9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 Accordingto the
grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


-JGIG
lets put the way the bible says and not you ok

1 john 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.


There are workers of iniquity and workers of righteousness

There are trangressors of the law and righteous who obey the law


all will be rewarde accodind to there work


Even the devils love there own kind
 
Oct 14, 2013
4,750
21
0
And here, ladies and gentlemen, is a PERFECT example of the use of the Root Word Fallacy.

Notice how john832 quoted the Greek word, 'telos', G5056, that DOES appear in the text, but used the definition of a DIFFERENT word that DOES NOT appear in the actual text.

The actual definition of the ACTUAL word that God INSPIRED to be put into the text is as follows:

Romans 10:4

4 For Christ is the end (G5056) of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

G5056 - telos

  1. end
  2. termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time)
  3. the end
    1. the last in any succession or series
    2. eternal
  4. that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue
  5. the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose
    toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods)


The rest of his post is rubbish because it's built on a total linguistic fabrication.

Folks, it is common for Law 'keepers' to use the Root Word Fallacy and other linguistic and logical fallacies to 'prove' their points.

Be on the lookout for it; always go back to the original Greek in the actual text to check out what they're asserting, and look specifically for phrasing such as john832 used above, "from a primary word", or "from the root word", because right after that, they will define a word that DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE TEXT BEING DISCUSSED.
Sneaky sneaky
.

Sincerely,
The 'ignorant' JGIG
1 Corinthians 7

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
Romans 2
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Law-keepers will often quote Romans 2:13 out of context to claim that righteousness can come through the Law. They claim that the keeping of Law does not earn salvation, but that after salvation one’s own righteousness (lack of sinning, in their view) is determined by how well one obeys Old Covenant Laws. Let’s take a look:

Romans 2:12-13
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;






What Law-keepers refuse to acknowledge is that righteousness cannot be credited to any account that is not completely faultless according to the Law as it was given.

That means TOTAL obedience, ALL the time (see Ex. 23:13, Deut. 8:1, 12:27-28, Jer. 7:21-26, Josh. 1:6-9 for verification).

Anything short of perfect obedience all the time is a fail. That’s why in Romans 3:21-26 says this:


But now

—> the <—

righteousness of God

—> apart from the law <—

is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even

—> the <—

righteousness of God


—> through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.<—

For there is no difference;

—> for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, <—

being justified

***freely by His grace***


through the redemption that is

*** in Christ Jesus,***

whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood,

*** through faith,***

to demonstrate

—>
His righteousness <—


because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time


—> His righteousness <—


that

—> He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. <—

Wow!

That is so powerful when it’s taken piece by piece!!!
The only ‘righteousness’ you could ever hope for through the Law is your own, and that would require your perfect obedience, all the time, which is an impossibility.

God offers you HIS Righteousness

IN CHRIST!

BY GRACE!

THROUGH FAITH!

Why?

To demonstrate \o/ \o/ \o/ God’s \o/ \o/ \o/ Righteousness!

Wow!
Now check this out in Romans 10:1-4:

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved.
For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they

—> being ignorant of God’s righteousness, <—

—> and seeking to establish their own righteousness, <—


—> have not submitted to the righteousness of God. <—


—> For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. <—


Why is Christ the end of the Law? Because the righteousness that is by the Law is


  1. unattainable, for it requires perfect obedience, all the time, and
  2. is not God’s perfect righteousness, but man’s imperfect righteousness (if it could be attained), a righteousness existing only until one’s next sin

Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness – which can only be man’s righteousness, because God’s righteousness is a righteousness apart from the Law - because in Christ we have a superior righteousness -

God’s Righteousness!



2 Corinthians 5:21 says

For He [God] made Him [Christ] who knew no sin to be sin for us,

—> that we might become the righteousness of God <—–

——> in Him [Christ]. <——

Any righteousness that could be attained through the Law (even if it could be attained) is man’s righteousness; God offers us HIS Righteousness in Christ! (Wow! That’s HUGE!)


\o/ \o/ \o/ Glory to God!!! \o/ \o/ \o/