What Laws are still valid to christians
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There is a lot of posting here about "led by the spirit", as if being led by the spirit means you do not have to obey any law.
A lot of talk about new covenant and old covenant, in the spirit of down with the old and hurray for the new. The law in the old covenant gave emphasis on how to live out the spirit of the law.
Never did God tell the Hebrews that it didn't matter in the least how angry they got with each other or what their spirit told them, as long as they just did exactly as they were told it was fine with God.
Never once did Christ tell us that it didn't matter in the least what we did or didn't do, as long as our heart was right with God we were free to follow any fleshly desire we had.
There is no scripture that tells us to cancel out what we were taught of God before Christ, even the scriptures that tell us to listen to the new covenant in Christ does not tell us this.
A lot of talk about new covenant and old covenant, in the spirit of down with the old and hurray for the new. The law in the old covenant gave emphasis on how to live out the spirit of the law.
Never did God tell the Hebrews that it didn't matter in the least how angry they got with each other or what their spirit told them, as long as they just did exactly as they were told it was fine with God.
Never once did Christ tell us that it didn't matter in the least what we did or didn't do, as long as our heart was right with God we were free to follow any fleshly desire we had.
There is no scripture that tells us to cancel out what we were taught of God before Christ, even the scriptures that tell us to listen to the new covenant in Christ does not tell us this.
People who are led by the Spirit are not in some moral vacuum:
Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For on the one hand, the former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.
I say why abide in what is weak and useless and makes nothing perfect? Why would you want to do that when a better hope has been introduced - and that through that which is better we draw near to God?
Hebrews 8:6-7
6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.
How did that work out for them?
Who's saying that we just follow our fleshly desires? Perhaps you have not read the folks' posts on Grace . . . no one here is saying that.
And are you asserting that the New Covenant Scriptures are not inspired? That Jesus did not mean it when He said,
John 16:12-15
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
And that the following is not true?
-JGIG
Galatians 5:16-18
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For on the one hand, the former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.
I say why abide in what is weak and useless and makes nothing perfect? Why would you want to do that when a better hope has been introduced - and that through that which is better we draw near to God?
Hebrews 8:6-7
6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.
How did that work out for them?
Who's saying that we just follow our fleshly desires? Perhaps you have not read the folks' posts on Grace . . . no one here is saying that.
And are you asserting that the New Covenant Scriptures are not inspired? That Jesus did not mean it when He said,
John 16:12-15
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Galatians 5:16-18
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
All Scripture is good for instruction (2 Tim. 3:16), however that does not mean that those in Christ are bound to Old Covenant Law. And the way you typed the above is very misleading - no one here is saying to cancel out all that God has taught - that's NOT what Grace folk are saying at all. Was the Old Covenant cancelled as a functioning covenantal system? You bet - as is proven by the destruction of the Temple and the establishing of Christ as the Perfect and Forever High Priest - The Old Covenant has NO priesthood. The New Covenant is clearly in place, setting the Old aside as Hebrews 7:18-19 says above. As for the Scripture that tells us to cancel out the Old Covenant, for those in Christ, yep - the Law is cancelled, we have died to it, we have been released from it (Col. 2:13-15, Rom. 7:4-6, Ephesians 2:14-16).16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
-JGIG
You don't like to address actual posts, do you, but instead ask random, what you think are 'gotcha' questions.
I'll answer your question with a few Scriptures:
1 John 3:23
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
Galatians 5:6
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Galatians 5:14
14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Galatians 5:18
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Romans 13:8-10
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
One walking in love is not murdering, stealing, lying, dishonoring, coveting, making idols, taking God's name in vain, etc. And Christ is our Sabbath Rest, and those who are in Him have entered His Sabbath Rest.
And for one to 'keep' the Law, one must keep it ALL, not just the Big Ten (Gal. 3:10, James 2:10).
-JGIG
I'll answer your question with a few Scriptures:
1 John 3:23
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
Galatians 5:6
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Galatians 5:14
14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Galatians 5:18
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Romans 13:8-10
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
One walking in love is not murdering, stealing, lying, dishonoring, coveting, making idols, taking God's name in vain, etc. And Christ is our Sabbath Rest, and those who are in Him have entered His Sabbath Rest.
And for one to 'keep' the Law, one must keep it ALL, not just the Big Ten (Gal. 3:10, James 2:10).
-JGIG
K
Why would you want to? Isdaniel you are flesh minded and thats why the law appeals to you. Because it is something that you can do and not faith in what God has done. You are a blind guide, Just because you are in a ditch, why lead others into it. The cross alone sets free, the cross alone delivers, the cross alone heals, the cros alone justifies. The cross, the cross, the cross and nothing you do.
And here, ladies and gentlemen, is a PERFECT example of the use of the Root Word Fallacy.
Notice how john832 quoted the Greek word, 'telos', G5056, that DOES appear in the text, but used the definition of a DIFFERENT word that DOES NOT appear in the actual text.
The actual definition of the ACTUAL word that God INSPIRED to be put into the text is as follows:
Romans 10:4
4 For Christ is the end (G5056) of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
The rest of his post is rubbish because it's built on a total linguistic fabrication.
Folks, it is common for Law 'keepers' to use the Root Word Fallacy and other linguistic and logical fallacies to 'prove' their points.
Be on the lookout for it; always go back to the original Greek in the actual text to check out what they're asserting, and look specifically for phrasing such as john832 used above, "from a primary word", or "from the root word", because right after that, they will define a word that DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE TEXT BEING DISCUSSED.
Sneaky sneaky
.
Sincerely,
The 'ignorant' JGIG
Notice how john832 quoted the Greek word, 'telos', G5056, that DOES appear in the text, but used the definition of a DIFFERENT word that DOES NOT appear in the actual text.
The actual definition of the ACTUAL word that God INSPIRED to be put into the text is as follows:
Romans 10:4
4 For Christ is the end (G5056) of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
G5056 - telos
- end
- termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time)
- the end
- the last in any succession or series
- eternal
- that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue
- the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose
toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods)
The rest of his post is rubbish because it's built on a total linguistic fabrication.
Folks, it is common for Law 'keepers' to use the Root Word Fallacy and other linguistic and logical fallacies to 'prove' their points.
Be on the lookout for it; always go back to the original Greek in the actual text to check out what they're asserting, and look specifically for phrasing such as john832 used above, "from a primary word", or "from the root word", because right after that, they will define a word that DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE TEXT BEING DISCUSSED.
Sneaky sneaky
Sincerely,
The 'ignorant' JGIG
can i ask you a question, what is the role of a spirit or what does a spirit do to the flesh? the bible talks about demonic spirits correct? and what happens when someone is possessed by a demonic spirit, wouldn't the flesh display what fruits is in that spirit? i'm sure we agree about that, now what do you expect will happen when someone is truly born again with the holy spirit? wouldn't the flesh display the fruits of that spirit, and the bible said that God came to fulfil the law, and the law is fulfilled in us through the holy spirit 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
and if the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in the holy spirit which comes inside of us through receive christ, wouldn't we automatically live a righteous life through that spirit and do exactly what the bible said we will do? let me ask you this when you look at some people testimony of how they use to be gang leaders and what not, how do you think they miraculously change just like that over now? through the holy spirit! don't you see? that change is exactly what the bible said THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW BE FULFILLED IN US, God bless
and if the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in the holy spirit which comes inside of us through receive christ, wouldn't we automatically live a righteous life through that spirit and do exactly what the bible said we will do? let me ask you this when you look at some people testimony of how they use to be gang leaders and what not, how do you think they miraculously change just like that over now? through the holy spirit! don't you see? that change is exactly what the bible said THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW BE FULFILLED IN US, God bless
Letter of the Law yes it is, and anything without Faith is a Sin. Was it a sin for Jesus to eat the show bread and work on the Sabbath? I mean he was accused of sin was he not, and what are you doing accusing of sin? When through Christ it has been taken out of the way to have new life in him through the resurrected Christ by Father
Hmm? Romans 6 very clear on we have by Christ, being Baptized into Christ have thus died to sin. Have you died to it yet or are you trying to in the energy of your own flesh claiming Faith at the same time, when by Faith and being Baptized by Father through Christ we are made holy to Father, by Christ's finished work and that alone
or do you not believe God when God says it is so:
Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Now if I sin again does that make the above truth of God void? No let every man be a liar, God does not lie, Acceptance is the first stage of healing
So either you believe by Christ you are made Holy or you do not. That simple and if you do believe by Christ you are made Holy then you are and there is no need to follow any Law since the Law is filled in you through Christ it is done.
Called completed in Christ and no other
Hmm? Romans 6 very clear on we have by Christ, being Baptized into Christ have thus died to sin. Have you died to it yet or are you trying to in the energy of your own flesh claiming Faith at the same time, when by Faith and being Baptized by Father through Christ we are made holy to Father, by Christ's finished work and that alone
or do you not believe God when God says it is so:
Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Now if I sin again does that make the above truth of God void? No let every man be a liar, God does not lie, Acceptance is the first stage of healing
So either you believe by Christ you are made Holy or you do not. That simple and if you do believe by Christ you are made Holy then you are and there is no need to follow any Law since the Law is filled in you through Christ it is done.
Called completed in Christ and no other
Read the article. Strong's is still recognized by those who use it as a lexicon. Here is an article for you to read...
Strong's Concordance and Lexicon - Greek, Hebrew, KJV
Strong's Concordance and Lexicon - Greek, Hebrew, KJV
Are you just trying to avoid valid points made by throwing up a distraction like you usually do? That article doesn't really tell me anything. Strong's is a concordance, i.e., a list that indexes every word in the bible based on its root. Are you trying to suggest that it is in any way comparable to lexicons that analyze a word in detail? The entry for G5056 (telos) in one lexicon that I have consists of nearly 4000 words; and the following list shows how thoroughly the word is analyzed in it:
A. The Understanding of the Term in the Greek World.
B. τέλος in the Septuagint.
C. The End in Jewish Apocalyptic.
D. τέλος in the New Testament.
E. The Usage of the Post-Apostolic Fathers.
A. The Understanding of the Term in the Greek World.
B. τέλος in the Septuagint.
C. The End in Jewish Apocalyptic.
D. τέλος in the New Testament.
E. The Usage of the Post-Apostolic Fathers.