It is talking about surrendering our will to God.
Not a very good example, but it pops into my head, is the sacrifice a mother will make for her child.
If you are thinking of burnt offerings, you are way out.
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It is talking about surrendering our will to God.
Not a very good example, but it pops into my head, is the sacrifice a mother will make for her child.
If you are thinking of burnt offerings, you are way out.
B
BradC
Guest
How dare you be so straightforward with your convictions of truth that you would offend the sensibilities of others who vehemently disagree with your outlandish and blasphemous hypocrisy. You have struck a real nerve being objective and not beating around the bush. You have enemies here and that is for sure. Perhaps they don't like the idea of animals taking the brunt of these sacrifices like they did in the days of old. We are all suppose to be animal conscious these days and put away those who inflict cruelty on animals. I am against cruelty 100% when it's really cruelty, but all these animals God created and they are his to do as he sees fit for his pleasure. This is deer season and those who like to hunt and enjoy eating venison, happy hunting and bring home the meat and when you eat thank God for what he has provided.
If I had to pinpoint the root cause of the amillenialist's error it's the belief that when scripture is fulfilled once in time, it's finished; that it's not fulfilled again. But prophecy isn't fulfilled in a purely linear progression, but in ripples; "echos" of the voice/word of God expanding wider and wider in time covering larger and larger areas.
"Not one stroke of the pen passes from the Torah until ALL is fulfilled."
God is "he who was, who is, and who is to come." He doesn't exist one moment at a time like we do, but exists at all points in time simultaneously...he's just that big! So when he says something - even speaking a prophecy - it applies to past, present and future, echoing on larger scales until it covers all time and ALL is fulfilled according to his word.
For example:
1. God said that he would send a prophet like Moses that his people must listen to or they'd be accountable, he wasn't just talking about Christ in the future, but Elijah first (for the people alive during his day).
2. When God through Jacob prophesied about the 12 sons, he wasn't just talking about what the brothers would experience, but the word also echoed for their dedcendants.
3. When God gave the prophecy of "immanuel", it not only was a prophecy of Christ but it applied to the child that was to be born in the time of that prophecy.
4. When God spoke a ram to be available as a substitution for Abraham's *firstborn* son (by faith, because Ishmael was firstborn of flesh), that word not only applied to the first Passover during Moses (it was also a sub for the *firstborn*)...but also we know it applied to Christ (as a substitute for the firstborn children of God).
(I hope I've proven my point.)
God's word echoes wherever it applies. It will not return to him void but will accomplish what it sets out to do.
---
So here's my point about the gap in Christ's kingdom.
God spoke a word that Christ was to suffer and die for the sins of the world, and he outlined that entire ministry, from Christ:
1. Being anointed by the Holy Spirit
2. His 40-day trial of Temptation in the wilderness
3. Preaching The Kingdom of God is here.
This was a fulfillment/echo of God's word given to Israel:
1. Receiving the Law at Mt Sinai
2. Their 40-year trial of faith in the wilderness
3. Entering into the promised Kingdom
...Because God called Israel his "firstborn son". But this echo of God's word doesn't stop with Christ the man, because whoever is with Christ must also follow him. So the word God spoke to Christ must *also* happen to his body...and so it has been. The Body of Christ:
1. Has received the Holy Spirit at Pentacost.
2. Is enduring their 40-jubilee (40 x 50 years = 2000 years) trial of faith in the world
3. Will enter into its kingdom soon
Why? Because that's the word God spoke concerning what would happen to Christ's body. And again...
Christ:
1. Preached the Kingdom of God being among the people (showing signs & miracles of that kingdom)
2. Suffered, was crucified, and died for the sins of the world (no evidence of a kingdom during his passion)
3. Resurrected from death after his crucifixion (signs & miracles restored; re-entered the glory of his kingdom)
So likewise the body of Christ:
1. Preached the Kingdom of God (showing signs & miracles of that kingdom during the 1st century)
2. Now suffers, is persecuted, and has been dying (with no evidences of a kingdom during this time)
3. Will resurrect from the grave like Christ did (with signs & miracles restored like in the 1st century)
Again, why must this happen? Because God gave his word that Christ's body would suffer for the world's sins...and his word echoes to the larger body of Christ.
This is indeed the a breach period between the introduction of Christ's kingdom and his kingdom fully realized because Christ's body = the Body of Christ.
This is our trial of faith in the wilderness before we reach the kingdom; this is Christ's passion being fulfilled in his "body" of believers (christ was dead for 3 days and resurrected on the 3rd day). The body has been dying for 2 "days" (2000 years) and will rise on the third "day". "Wherever the dead body is, there the eagles will gather".
Its the same prophecy spoken of in how Judah's twin sons were born in Genesis: zerah, pharez, zerah (zerah means "light" and pharez means "breaker")... and Zechariah's vision in Zech 4 (olive tree, lampstand, olive tree).
"Not one stroke of the pen passes from the Torah until ALL is fulfilled."
God is "he who was, who is, and who is to come." He doesn't exist one moment at a time like we do, but exists at all points in time simultaneously...he's just that big! So when he says something - even speaking a prophecy - it applies to past, present and future, echoing on larger scales until it covers all time and ALL is fulfilled according to his word.
For example:
1. God said that he would send a prophet like Moses that his people must listen to or they'd be accountable, he wasn't just talking about Christ in the future, but Elijah first (for the people alive during his day).
2. When God through Jacob prophesied about the 12 sons, he wasn't just talking about what the brothers would experience, but the word also echoed for their dedcendants.
3. When God gave the prophecy of "immanuel", it not only was a prophecy of Christ but it applied to the child that was to be born in the time of that prophecy.
4. When God spoke a ram to be available as a substitution for Abraham's *firstborn* son (by faith, because Ishmael was firstborn of flesh), that word not only applied to the first Passover during Moses (it was also a sub for the *firstborn*)...but also we know it applied to Christ (as a substitute for the firstborn children of God).
(I hope I've proven my point.)
God's word echoes wherever it applies. It will not return to him void but will accomplish what it sets out to do.
---
So here's my point about the gap in Christ's kingdom.
God spoke a word that Christ was to suffer and die for the sins of the world, and he outlined that entire ministry, from Christ:
1. Being anointed by the Holy Spirit
2. His 40-day trial of Temptation in the wilderness
3. Preaching The Kingdom of God is here.
This was a fulfillment/echo of God's word given to Israel:
1. Receiving the Law at Mt Sinai
2. Their 40-year trial of faith in the wilderness
3. Entering into the promised Kingdom
...Because God called Israel his "firstborn son". But this echo of God's word doesn't stop with Christ the man, because whoever is with Christ must also follow him. So the word God spoke to Christ must *also* happen to his body...and so it has been. The Body of Christ:
1. Has received the Holy Spirit at Pentacost.
2. Is enduring their 40-jubilee (40 x 50 years = 2000 years) trial of faith in the world
3. Will enter into its kingdom soon
Why? Because that's the word God spoke concerning what would happen to Christ's body. And again...
Christ:
1. Preached the Kingdom of God being among the people (showing signs & miracles of that kingdom)
2. Suffered, was crucified, and died for the sins of the world (no evidence of a kingdom during his passion)
3. Resurrected from death after his crucifixion (signs & miracles restored; re-entered the glory of his kingdom)
So likewise the body of Christ:
1. Preached the Kingdom of God (showing signs & miracles of that kingdom during the 1st century)
2. Now suffers, is persecuted, and has been dying (with no evidences of a kingdom during this time)
3. Will resurrect from the grave like Christ did (with signs & miracles restored like in the 1st century)
Again, why must this happen? Because God gave his word that Christ's body would suffer for the world's sins...and his word echoes to the larger body of Christ.
This is indeed the a breach period between the introduction of Christ's kingdom and his kingdom fully realized because Christ's body = the Body of Christ.
This is our trial of faith in the wilderness before we reach the kingdom; this is Christ's passion being fulfilled in his "body" of believers (christ was dead for 3 days and resurrected on the 3rd day). The body has been dying for 2 "days" (2000 years) and will rise on the third "day". "Wherever the dead body is, there the eagles will gather".
Its the same prophecy spoken of in how Judah's twin sons were born in Genesis: zerah, pharez, zerah (zerah means "light" and pharez means "breaker")... and Zechariah's vision in Zech 4 (olive tree, lampstand, olive tree).
so, your assertion is that Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies which foretold the Messiah.
therefore He is not even Messiah.
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son.
hopefully John meant something in our future, then.
why can't you post the passages/references for these statements?
anyway:
1. He will be human, born as a child
uh....okay...wasn't this fulfilled?
Matthew 1:1
This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:
2. He will be a ruler (government will be on his shoulders)
does being the King of kings and Lord of lords, Who has authority in heaven and on earth count as being a ruler?
Matthew 2:22
"Where is the newborn king of the Jews? We saw his star as it rose, and we have come to worship him."
Luke 1
30The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31"And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32"He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David
John 1:49
Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel."
like....here is the ruler and king who has all authority in heaven and on earth (that sounds like all), telling His subjects to teach everyone His Commandments and Laws:
Matthew 28
18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
will He ever have more authority than this: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."?
or is it your suggestion He has that authority but isn't using it?
because He said : "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations...teaching them to observe all that I commanded you"
doesn't that sound like Someone Who has ALL authority in heaven and on earth commanding His subjects to teach others ALL that He commanded them?
KING (Webster's)
: a male ruler of a country who usually inherits his position and rules for life
a : a male monarch of a major territorial unit; especially : one whose position is hereditary and who rules for life
b : a paramount chief
2
capitalized : god, christ
3
: one that holds a preeminent position; especially : a chief among competitors
3. He will be God himself (He will be called mighty God)
so...is Jesus God?
you don't deny this too, do you?
Isaiah 9:7
Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.
Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").
because there are currently subjects in the earth living in darkness...and because many subjects on earth (where Jesus said He had all authority) will go to hell - does this mean The Prince of Peace is not currently working through His ambassadors to announce the proclamation of reconciliation and everlasting life to the people of the world?
i don't understand.
is Jesus just sitting there doing nothing? because you know that He must be both King & Priest at the same time - right?
is He our High Priest or not?
4. His kingdom will be eternal, it will never end.
so, you're not transferred from satan's dominion to Christ's Kingdom (because He doesn't have a kingdom)?
Colossians 1:13
For he has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son.
Acts 26:18
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'
Matthew 12
28"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
as for His Kingdom being eternal - don't you already have eternal life?
your user name is eternally grateful - what are you grateful for?
i guess you have to wait for the Millennium to be literally eternally grateful.
but....i understand why you are confused.
even though the text says nothing about the statue's toes being anything other than the Roman Empire of Christ's day (and i believe mixed with the Edomite Jewish Herods)....you have decided to make it another kingdom.....thousands of years in the future.
and on that basis, are forced to conclude Jesus was not King 2000 years ago - didn't receive David's Throne in heaven (which just means universal rule) - didn't fulfill the role of Messiah either....pretty much all the prophecies failed.
Daniel 2
40And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these. 41And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage,c but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people.
see, what it says about the fourth kingdom - Rome, was that it would be a divided kingdom...strong, but breakable....ready to crumble. which it did. still the same kingdom as the legs. it says so clearly.
the Romans and the Herods and whatnot mixed in marriage, you know that right?
they married each other's sisters and stuff. to try to strengthen their reign.
i don't know why you don't just read the history of the period. it would save all this wasted energy.
in any case - in the days of those kings (the ones who conspired to Kill Jesus and so on - the Caesars/Pilate/Herod etc), the God of heaven did set up a Kingdom. and everlasting one. Jesus is King of kings. and He is Lord of lords. like...right now.
if you're not in His Kingdom, i don't know where you are. still in darkness?
honestly, new converts don't question Christ as Messiah and King.
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son.
i don't know how this came to be. too much prophecy club stuff i guess.
Colossians 1:13
For he has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son.
Matthew 12
28"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
6. He will come from Judah, and rule isreal, and his kingdom will be worldwide in scope. and his kingdom will come from the strength of God himself. it can not be defeated.
i wish you could post the references for what you're saying.
is this fulfilled yet?
Isaiah 42:1
"Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.
well, yes it is - right here:
Matthew 12:18
"Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
what kind of justice are we talking about that is proclaimed?
well...i suppose it would repent and be forgiven and obey His commandments and receive eternal life, or go into the lake of fire.
seems to me that's the Commandment the King gave.
Matthew 3:16
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.
Matthew 3:17
And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
Matthew 17:5
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"
i wonder what kind of King we have:
Luke 4:18
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free.
what happens to those who don't obey the King's orders?
well i guess since He has ALL authority in heaven and on earth, He will do what He said - which is separate the wheat (the children of the Kingdom) from the chaff (the cursed) and they go there appointed places.
sounds like a King and Savior declaring salvation of damnation - Justice and Mercy.
dunno....if Jesus isn't claiming that and commanding that, why is anyone proclaiming the message - BE YE RECONCILED TO GOD! today is the day of salvation. it's given that everyone dies once - then the Judgment.
i don't know what's lacking.
who is calling the shots right now in this GAP dispensation? not clear at all.
because when the King returns, He sets the Judgment and the sheep and goats go to their places.
nothing is Postponed, except the Judgment because God is patient, wanting people to be saved, eternally.
i thought that was Christian doctrine.
5. He will NEVER DIE
so Jesus Christ will NEVER Be King or Messiah?
because HE DIED.
but He's alive - forevermore.
i don't understand what you're saying - is Jesus not the Promised Messiah, BECAUSE HE DIED?
that's why Jews don't believe.
Revelation 1
I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
but when did He appear to John? a long time ago.
this isn't talking about a future 1,000 years. this was a long time ago.
Revelation 22
12"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." 14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end" - sounds like EVERYTHING. TOTAL. the eternal God.
Isaiah 44:6
"This is what the LORD says-- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
do we have Two Gods? no, that says not.
7. Those who rebelled againsed him, and survived the final battle will come and worship him. No one will look down on him, but look up to him. and serve him and him only.
you'll have to post all the passages that say anyone survives the last battle and the Second Coming.
i'm not dealing with you story-line without some documentation.
preferably the New Testament.
if #7 remains to be fulfilled, you have two great battles - so really, your assertion that Jesus would be a lousy king if He was ruling now, doesn't make Him much better of a king in the Millennium, because worse rebellion and sin takes place then...only problem is, in Revelation they are not two battles 1,000 years apart.....it's the same battle - written of twice.
8. He will be served, not be a servant.
like...in the Millennium He will be served? because He came the first time as a servant?
are you serving ....who....now? anyone?
Psalm 2
Serve the LORD with fear and celebrate his rule with trembling
i wonder how many times this has too be posted?
are you able to see it?
Psalm 2
The Reign of the LORD’s Anointed
1 Why do the nations ragea
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6 “As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”
7 I will tell of the decree:
The LORD said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You shall breakb them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
can you read this please?
and tell me what it means:
Acts 2
23When they were released, they went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, “Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, 25who through the mouth of our father David, your servant,c said by the Holy Spirit,
“‘Why did the Gentiles rage,
and the peoples plot in vain?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers were gathered together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed’d—
27for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. 29And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servantse to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.
9. We are given his name: Messiah, or as we know it Christ
can you please in the future reference what you're claiming.
like....??
you said Jesus didn't fulfill the Messiah's prophecies.
are you saying the Bible (NT and OT) does NOT identify Jesus as the Christ?
Acts 11
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son.
....
i can't really believe i'm having this conversation.
therefore He is not even Messiah.
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son.
hopefully John meant something in our future, then.
why can't you post the passages/references for these statements?
anyway:
1. He will be human, born as a child
uh....okay...wasn't this fulfilled?
Matthew 1:1
This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:
2. He will be a ruler (government will be on his shoulders)
does being the King of kings and Lord of lords, Who has authority in heaven and on earth count as being a ruler?
Matthew 2:22
"Where is the newborn king of the Jews? We saw his star as it rose, and we have come to worship him."
Luke 1
30The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31"And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32"He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David
John 1:49
Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel."
like....here is the ruler and king who has all authority in heaven and on earth (that sounds like all), telling His subjects to teach everyone His Commandments and Laws:
Matthew 28
18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
will He ever have more authority than this: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."?
or is it your suggestion He has that authority but isn't using it?
because He said : "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations...teaching them to observe all that I commanded you"
doesn't that sound like Someone Who has ALL authority in heaven and on earth commanding His subjects to teach others ALL that He commanded them?
KING (Webster's)
: a male ruler of a country who usually inherits his position and rules for life
a : a male monarch of a major territorial unit; especially : one whose position is hereditary and who rules for life
b : a paramount chief
2
capitalized : god, christ
3
: one that holds a preeminent position; especially : a chief among competitors
3. He will be God himself (He will be called mighty God)
so...is Jesus God?
you don't deny this too, do you?
Isaiah 9:7
Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.
Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").
because there are currently subjects in the earth living in darkness...and because many subjects on earth (where Jesus said He had all authority) will go to hell - does this mean The Prince of Peace is not currently working through His ambassadors to announce the proclamation of reconciliation and everlasting life to the people of the world?
i don't understand.
is Jesus just sitting there doing nothing? because you know that He must be both King & Priest at the same time - right?
is He our High Priest or not?
4. His kingdom will be eternal, it will never end.
so, you're not transferred from satan's dominion to Christ's Kingdom (because He doesn't have a kingdom)?
Colossians 1:13
For he has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son.
Acts 26:18
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'
Matthew 12
28"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
as for His Kingdom being eternal - don't you already have eternal life?
your user name is eternally grateful - what are you grateful for?
i guess you have to wait for the Millennium to be literally eternally grateful.
but....i understand why you are confused.
even though the text says nothing about the statue's toes being anything other than the Roman Empire of Christ's day (and i believe mixed with the Edomite Jewish Herods)....you have decided to make it another kingdom.....thousands of years in the future.
and on that basis, are forced to conclude Jesus was not King 2000 years ago - didn't receive David's Throne in heaven (which just means universal rule) - didn't fulfill the role of Messiah either....pretty much all the prophecies failed.
Daniel 2
40And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these. 41And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage,c but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people.
see, what it says about the fourth kingdom - Rome, was that it would be a divided kingdom...strong, but breakable....ready to crumble. which it did. still the same kingdom as the legs. it says so clearly.
the Romans and the Herods and whatnot mixed in marriage, you know that right?
they married each other's sisters and stuff. to try to strengthen their reign.
i don't know why you don't just read the history of the period. it would save all this wasted energy.
in any case - in the days of those kings (the ones who conspired to Kill Jesus and so on - the Caesars/Pilate/Herod etc), the God of heaven did set up a Kingdom. and everlasting one. Jesus is King of kings. and He is Lord of lords. like...right now.
if you're not in His Kingdom, i don't know where you are. still in darkness?
honestly, new converts don't question Christ as Messiah and King.
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son.
i don't know how this came to be. too much prophecy club stuff i guess.
Colossians 1:13
For he has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son.
Matthew 12
28"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
6. He will come from Judah, and rule isreal, and his kingdom will be worldwide in scope. and his kingdom will come from the strength of God himself. it can not be defeated.
i wish you could post the references for what you're saying.
is this fulfilled yet?
Isaiah 42:1
"Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.
well, yes it is - right here:
Matthew 12:18
"Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
what kind of justice are we talking about that is proclaimed?
well...i suppose it would repent and be forgiven and obey His commandments and receive eternal life, or go into the lake of fire.
seems to me that's the Commandment the King gave.
Matthew 3:16
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.
Matthew 3:17
And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
Matthew 17:5
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"
i wonder what kind of King we have:
Luke 4:18
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free.
what happens to those who don't obey the King's orders?
well i guess since He has ALL authority in heaven and on earth, He will do what He said - which is separate the wheat (the children of the Kingdom) from the chaff (the cursed) and they go there appointed places.
sounds like a King and Savior declaring salvation of damnation - Justice and Mercy.
dunno....if Jesus isn't claiming that and commanding that, why is anyone proclaiming the message - BE YE RECONCILED TO GOD! today is the day of salvation. it's given that everyone dies once - then the Judgment.
i don't know what's lacking.
who is calling the shots right now in this GAP dispensation? not clear at all.
because when the King returns, He sets the Judgment and the sheep and goats go to their places.
nothing is Postponed, except the Judgment because God is patient, wanting people to be saved, eternally.
i thought that was Christian doctrine.
5. He will NEVER DIE
so Jesus Christ will NEVER Be King or Messiah?
because HE DIED.
but He's alive - forevermore.
i don't understand what you're saying - is Jesus not the Promised Messiah, BECAUSE HE DIED?
that's why Jews don't believe.
Revelation 1
I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
but when did He appear to John? a long time ago.
this isn't talking about a future 1,000 years. this was a long time ago.
Revelation 22
12"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." 14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end" - sounds like EVERYTHING. TOTAL. the eternal God.
Isaiah 44:6
"This is what the LORD says-- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
do we have Two Gods? no, that says not.
7. Those who rebelled againsed him, and survived the final battle will come and worship him. No one will look down on him, but look up to him. and serve him and him only.
you'll have to post all the passages that say anyone survives the last battle and the Second Coming.
i'm not dealing with you story-line without some documentation.
preferably the New Testament.
if #7 remains to be fulfilled, you have two great battles - so really, your assertion that Jesus would be a lousy king if He was ruling now, doesn't make Him much better of a king in the Millennium, because worse rebellion and sin takes place then...only problem is, in Revelation they are not two battles 1,000 years apart.....it's the same battle - written of twice.
8. He will be served, not be a servant.
like...in the Millennium He will be served? because He came the first time as a servant?
are you serving ....who....now? anyone?
Psalm 2
Serve the LORD with fear and celebrate his rule with trembling
i wonder how many times this has too be posted?
are you able to see it?
Psalm 2
The Reign of the LORD’s Anointed
1 Why do the nations ragea
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6 “As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”
7 I will tell of the decree:
The LORD said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You shall breakb them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
can you read this please?
and tell me what it means:
Acts 2
23When they were released, they went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, “Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, 25who through the mouth of our father David, your servant,c said by the Holy Spirit,
“‘Why did the Gentiles rage,
and the peoples plot in vain?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers were gathered together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed’d—
27for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. 29And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servantse to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.
9. We are given his name: Messiah, or as we know it Christ
can you please in the future reference what you're claiming.
like....??
you said Jesus didn't fulfill the Messiah's prophecies.
are you saying the Bible (NT and OT) does NOT identify Jesus as the Christ?
Acts 11
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son.
....
i can't really believe i'm having this conversation.
i read your whole post.
this first:
well, so, let's say we take the first Advent as Year 0.
pretty sure Jesus was born in what is actually c. 4BC
so give or take a few years.
but let's say 0 for ease.
this 2013.
Pentecost would have been in 33AD
so what you are saying is...we can know the exact year Christ will return, and it will be c. 20 years from now?
please be as detailed as possible on how you reached this conclusion.
are you saying we are NOT in the Kingdom now?
Jesus is not King now?
this subject is quite tiresome actually.
but please tell me about your personal variety of Millennialism (Dispensationalism)...no two varieties are alike.
just the basics.
are we in a Limbo non-kingdom at this time?
this first:
well, so, let's say we take the first Advent as Year 0.
pretty sure Jesus was born in what is actually c. 4BC
so give or take a few years.
but let's say 0 for ease.
this 2013.
Pentecost would have been in 33AD
so what you are saying is...we can know the exact year Christ will return, and it will be c. 20 years from now?
please be as detailed as possible on how you reached this conclusion.
are you saying we are NOT in the Kingdom now?
Jesus is not King now?
this subject is quite tiresome actually.
but please tell me about your personal variety of Millennialism (Dispensationalism)...no two varieties are alike.
just the basics.
are we in a Limbo non-kingdom at this time?
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what does this passage say about David's Throne and who is on it (if anyone)?
Acts 2
29"Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30"And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, 31he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY
especially this part:
he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, 31he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ
more precisely:
GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, 31he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ
and actually:
he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ.
.......
what does that mean?
does that mean Jesus was seated on David's Throne, having received ALL authority upon His resurrection and Ascension?
what does the bible say about that?
yes or no?
Acts 2
29"Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30"And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, 31he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY
especially this part:
he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, 31he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ
more precisely:
GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, 31he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ
and actually:
he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ.
.......
what does that mean?
does that mean Jesus was seated on David's Throne, having received ALL authority upon His resurrection and Ascension?
what does the bible say about that?
yes or no?
hey there Yahshua
before i forget.
you were going to address the day = 1,000 year principle.
i know we covered Adam's death.
did you post any more on that? because i apologize for missing it.
if you did, i can go back and find it easily enough.
also, i think we were discussing Times & Laws being changed...it was about the hebrew calendar i believe.
you said this was fulfilled (which i agree with)...but if you posted on WHEN it was fulfilled, i'm sorry - i missed that too.
i do apologize.
Daniel 7
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.
if you did write on this, i can go back and find it by searching your posts in this thread (was it in this thread)?
k.....reading
zone
well, you indicated that the bible is completely Christo-centric.
everything is about Him.
what this doesn't prove or suggest is that there has to be a literal coming temporary 1,000 year rule on a partially cursed earth.
i really fail to see the need for it.
in fact, the opposite is what the Bible indicates.
it is Finished.
all that remains now is the final Judgment - THEN we have eternity - for the redeemed, eternity with God.
for the lost, eternal hell.
i really just want someone to explain using the scriptures, what the Millennium IS FOR.
what is it FOR?
like really. just think about it for a minute. is it for a second chance?
is it for a slow refurbishing of the earth?
is it so blind Israel gets reincarnated so they can reign?
is it so Jesus can sit in another temple (when He told John already - there will be NO MORE TEMPLES)?
is it so David can rule from a gold covered throne in Jerusalem in the State of Israel?
is it for sacrificing animals?
what...is ....it...FOR?
concerning national Israel...i wish people would look up this passage, in context, and tell me...to what time period is it referring?
Luke 21
For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.
are we saying this is in the future?
really? well it doesn't look like Israel has a good future coming at all.
in reality, this was the coming of 70AD.
but if someone can show it's not, please do.
it might be helpful to look at Jews for Judaism and see what they say about why Jesus could not be the Messiah.
because i see some of these ideas put forth as Christian doctrine.
...
THE JEWISH MESSIAH... AND WHY HE IS NOT JESUS
Christian missionaries, like Jews for Jesus, claim that Jesus is the Jewish messiah.
Why has Judaism rejected this assertion for 2,000 years?
The concept of the Messiah has its foundation in our Jewish Bible, the Tanach, which teaches that all of the following criteria must be fulfilled before any person can be acknowledged as the Messiah:
● Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David and King Solomon
....
well, that's already error.
the Messiah came through David's son Nathan (and so through Mary), not Solomon.
Solomon's line was a dead end.
....
The Messiah must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10) and a direct descendant of King David & King Solomon (2 Samuel 7:12-14; 1 Chronicles 22:9-10). Genealogy in the Bible is only passed down from father to son (Numbers 1:1-18).
There is no evidence that Jesus really had this pedigree, and the Christian Bible actually claims that he did not have a "birth-father" from the tribe of Judah descending from David and Solomon (Matt. 1:18-20).
....
Psalm 2
The Reign of the LORD’s Anointed
1 Why do the nations ragea
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6 “As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”
7 I will tell of the decree:
The LORD said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You shall breakb them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
.....
● Ingathering of the Jewish Exiles
When the Messiah is reigning as King of Israel, the Jews will be ingathered from their exile and will return to Israel, their homeland (Deut. 30:3; Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 30:3, 32:37; Ezekiel 11:17, 36:24).
This has clearly not yet happened and we still await its fulfillment.
THE JEWISH MESSIAH... AND WHY HE IS NOT JESUS - Jews for Judaism Canada
.....
Isaiah 11
The Righteous Reign of the Branch
1 There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse,
and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit.
2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him,
the Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and might,
the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
3 And his delight shall be in the fear of the LORD.
He shall not judge by what his eyes see,
or decide disputes by what his ears hear,
4 but with righteousness he shall judge the poor,
and decide with equity for the meek of the earth;
and he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth,
and with the breath of his lips he shall kill the wicked.
5 Righteousness shall be the belt of his waist,
and faithfulness the belt of his loins.
6 The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,
and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together;
and a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze;
their young shall lie down together;
and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra,
and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder’s den.
9 They shall not hurt or destroy
in all my holy mountain;
for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD
as the waters cover the sea.
10In that day the root of Jesse, who shall stand as a signal for the peoples—of him shall the nations inquire, and his resting place shall be glorious.
11In that day the Lord will extend his hand yet a second time to recover the remnant that remains of his people, from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush,a from Elam, from Shinar, from Hamath, and from the coastlands of the sea.
Romans 15
Christ the Hope of Jews and Gentiles
8For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God’s truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs, 9and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written,
“Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles,
and sing to your name.”
10And again it is said,
“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people.”
11And again,
“Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles,
and let all the peoples extol him.”
12And again Isaiah says,
“The root of Jesse will come,
even he who arises to rule the Gentiles;
in him will the Gentiles hope.”
13May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.
cont...
because i see some of these ideas put forth as Christian doctrine.
...
THE JEWISH MESSIAH... AND WHY HE IS NOT JESUS
Christian missionaries, like Jews for Jesus, claim that Jesus is the Jewish messiah.
Why has Judaism rejected this assertion for 2,000 years?
The concept of the Messiah has its foundation in our Jewish Bible, the Tanach, which teaches that all of the following criteria must be fulfilled before any person can be acknowledged as the Messiah:
● Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David and King Solomon
....
well, that's already error.
the Messiah came through David's son Nathan (and so through Mary), not Solomon.
Solomon's line was a dead end.
....
The Messiah must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10) and a direct descendant of King David & King Solomon (2 Samuel 7:12-14; 1 Chronicles 22:9-10). Genealogy in the Bible is only passed down from father to son (Numbers 1:1-18).
There is no evidence that Jesus really had this pedigree, and the Christian Bible actually claims that he did not have a "birth-father" from the tribe of Judah descending from David and Solomon (Matt. 1:18-20).
....
Psalm 2
The Reign of the LORD’s Anointed
1 Why do the nations ragea
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6 “As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”
7 I will tell of the decree:
The LORD said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You shall breakb them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
.....
● Ingathering of the Jewish Exiles
When the Messiah is reigning as King of Israel, the Jews will be ingathered from their exile and will return to Israel, their homeland (Deut. 30:3; Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 30:3, 32:37; Ezekiel 11:17, 36:24).
This has clearly not yet happened and we still await its fulfillment.
THE JEWISH MESSIAH... AND WHY HE IS NOT JESUS - Jews for Judaism Canada
.....
Isaiah 11
The Righteous Reign of the Branch
1 There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse,
and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit.
2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him,
the Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and might,
the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
3 And his delight shall be in the fear of the LORD.
He shall not judge by what his eyes see,
or decide disputes by what his ears hear,
4 but with righteousness he shall judge the poor,
and decide with equity for the meek of the earth;
and he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth,
and with the breath of his lips he shall kill the wicked.
5 Righteousness shall be the belt of his waist,
and faithfulness the belt of his loins.
6 The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,
and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together;
and a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze;
their young shall lie down together;
and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra,
and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder’s den.
9 They shall not hurt or destroy
in all my holy mountain;
for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD
as the waters cover the sea.
10In that day the root of Jesse, who shall stand as a signal for the peoples—of him shall the nations inquire, and his resting place shall be glorious.
11In that day the Lord will extend his hand yet a second time to recover the remnant that remains of his people, from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush,a from Elam, from Shinar, from Hamath, and from the coastlands of the sea.
Romans 15
Christ the Hope of Jews and Gentiles
8For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God’s truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs, 9and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written,
“Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles,
and sing to your name.”
10And again it is said,
“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people.”
11And again,
“Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles,
and let all the peoples extol him.”
12And again Isaiah says,
“The root of Jesse will come,
even he who arises to rule the Gentiles;
in him will the Gentiles hope.”
13May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.
cont...
ChosenbyHim SAID:
animal sacrifices will be reinstituted in the Messianic, Millennial Kingdom where Kingdom Law will be implemented.
and you said:
the degree of disgrace upon the Name of Jesus Christ The Lamb of God is beyond expression in words.
but,
i give thanks to You Lord God Almighty
that you reveal the heretics and wolves among us,
who blaspheme Your Holy Son Jesus,
and count His blood as an unholy thing,
saying You will take pleasure,
in the blood of bulls and goats,
after Our Dear Savior, Your Son
gave Himself,
suffered and bore our sin,
and He died.
i thank You that You
raised Him from the grave,
and that He will not suffer
again, nor will You accept any
worship or sacrifice, that is not
found in Jesus Christ Our Lord,
who is seated at Thy Right Hand.
Lord God,
continue to reveal those who
are not Yours, for they are blinded.
Is this Your Judgment, Lord?
for no one who loves the Son,
and fears You would ever
claim you ever did,
or ever will
take pleasure in the blood of animals.
Jesus Christ, Our Holy Lamb
Sacrificed once for all time.
God protect us from these heretics.
in Christ's HOLY NAME,
Hear O God, hear,
look and see.
animal sacrifices will be reinstituted in the Messianic, Millennial Kingdom where Kingdom Law will be implemented.
and you said:
the degree of disgrace upon the Name of Jesus Christ The Lamb of God is beyond expression in words.
but,
i give thanks to You Lord God Almighty
that you reveal the heretics and wolves among us,
who blaspheme Your Holy Son Jesus,
and count His blood as an unholy thing,
saying You will take pleasure,
in the blood of bulls and goats,
after Our Dear Savior, Your Son
gave Himself,
suffered and bore our sin,
and He died.
i thank You that You
raised Him from the grave,
and that He will not suffer
again, nor will You accept any
worship or sacrifice, that is not
found in Jesus Christ Our Lord,
who is seated at Thy Right Hand.
Lord God,
continue to reveal those who
are not Yours, for they are blinded.
Is this Your Judgment, Lord?
for no one who loves the Son,
and fears You would ever
claim you ever did,
or ever will
take pleasure in the blood of animals.
Jesus Christ, Our Holy Lamb
Sacrificed once for all time.
God protect us from these heretics.
in Christ's HOLY NAME,
Hear O God, hear,
look and see.
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C
cfultz3
Guest
so the whole book is fulfilled, except 2 verses in chapter 14 - which zoom forward in time thousands of years to a restored temple system.
k
I don't think they call the One with the wounds in His hands their God yet. To me, this is eerily close to what is described in Revelation about only a third surviving a war.
Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
--Chris
C
cfultz3
Guest
so the whole book is fulfilled, except 2 verses in chapter 14 - which zoom forward in time thousands of years to a restored temple system.
k
Zech Chapter 12 is also eerily close to that battle against the saints and Holy City which is described in Revelation.
who doesn't? unbelievers who reject Him?
why is that hard to understand?
Zechariah 13
The Shepherd Struck, Sheep Scattered
“Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me,” declares the LORD of hosts. “Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.
Jesus said this was fulfilled:
Matthew 26:31
Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'
what is the holy city?
Hebrews 12
21And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, "I AM FULL OF FEAR and trembling." 22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect
Galatians 4:26
But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
is this in our future?
Zechariah 12:10
"And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."
John 19:34-37
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced."
no it's not.
but you have a gap of thousands of years between that chapter, and 13.
Luke 23
23:36 And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
23:37 And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
C
cfultz3
Guest
the House of David. The inhabitants of Jerusalem (c13v1). Somewhere in Scripture, I remember it saying that they will look upon the One they have pierced......
Of course the Shepherd was struck and the sheep was scattered. Yet, I have to ask myself these questions:
has the Day of the Lord came? (c14v1)
Does the LORD now stand on mount Olive which is near Jerusalem (there will be some who will say that He is in the desert. But, do not believe them. Will He not be in God's Holy City of old?). (c14v4)
Has the Lord came with the saints yet? (c14v5)
Concerning Zechariah 12: 9-10
Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Is Jesus Lord and Master now?
John 13
13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
13:14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
13:17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.
....
what about this return to Mosaiac Law and the temple sacrifices?
Hebrews 10
The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming--not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.
see that?
NEVER.
2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins.
SO, if animal blood is involved....JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR NO REASON.
...
so what about a future temple?
Colossians 2:17
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Hebrews 9:11
But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.
Mark 14
57Some stood up and began to give false testimony against Him, saying, 58"We heard Him say, 'I will destroy this temple made with hands, and in three days I will build another made without hands.'" 59Not even in this respect was their testimony consistent.
John 2
18So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” 19Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21But he was speaking about the temple of his body. 22When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
Hebrews 8
There he ministers in the heavenly Tabernacle, the true place of worship that was built by the Lord and not by human hands.
Revelation 21
The New Jerusalem
21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass. 22I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb
John 13
13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
13:14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
13:17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.
....
what about this return to Mosaiac Law and the temple sacrifices?
Hebrews 10
The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming--not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.
see that?
NEVER.
2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins.
SO, if animal blood is involved....JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR NO REASON.
...
so what about a future temple?
Colossians 2:17
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Hebrews 9:11
But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.
Mark 14
57Some stood up and began to give false testimony against Him, saying, 58"We heard Him say, 'I will destroy this temple made with hands, and in three days I will build another made without hands.'" 59Not even in this respect was their testimony consistent.
John 2
18So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” 19Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21But he was speaking about the temple of his body. 22When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
Hebrews 8
There he ministers in the heavenly Tabernacle, the true place of worship that was built by the Lord and not by human hands.
Revelation 21
The New Jerusalem
21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass. 22I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb