There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

[danschance]

I read it in the bible. However, I did not find "Holy Trinity" in the bible. That is a pagan construct, aiming as fashioning God in pagan terms. God is known by his unity (Deut 6;4). Why make God out to be a Trinity in defiance of his Word? I'll concede however since the revelation of Jesus Christ that a hierarchy can be introduced: the Logos is God, or the nature of God, or the image of God, etc, by being in apposition to the Father who is substantively God. But there is a dependency relation. It is not a wholly equal relation.

The logos became flesh. That's what the bible says. That means the logos ceased to be God but did not cease being the logos. What's so difficult about that? The propagandists who tell you otherwise reject scripture. They are pursing mere human philosophy, which they have done for many hundreds of years. That is why Christendom is ruled by antichrist. It's because Christians won't believe the bible and prefer their own fairy tales.

How can the Logos stop being God? The bible says Jesus vieled his diety, not ceased being God.

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Phil. 2:5-6

The term Emptied in Greek is kenosis. Christians believe Jesus vieled His devine attributes, not obliterated them. I suggest you read the link below for more on this as you are in error.

What is the kenosis?
http://www.theopedia.com/Kenosis

 

[Huckleberry]

God is nowhere described in scripture as a "person." When God is referred to, it is by names and terms that refer to one that cannot be understood or apprehended by humans. Thus a trinity of "persons" is of itself a misconception.

Exodus 15
[SUP]1[/SUP] Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.
[SUP]2[/SUP] The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him.
[SUP]3[/SUP] The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

That's capital L, capital O, capital R, capital D.

BTW, every person is a trinity.
We have a soul, a spirit, and a body.
All are separate elements of a singular entity.
We are made in His image.

 

[Huckleberry]

Someone help me out here........seriously. I don't know, have not been able to determine which group exactly it is that teaches such as we are reading here.............Those who deny the Holy Trinity, the Holy Spirit, the Divinity of Christ.......what group are they? It would really help me to understand who I am conversing with............Thanks........

The OP is Jehovah's Witness and is attempting to spread her false doctrines here.

 

[VCO]

they aren't literally ONE they became one after the spirit of God came into Jesus, how can God be the son and the father at the same time?

That is one theory, but try to make it square this Scripture:

Colossians 1:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.

Ephesians 5:23 (NIV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

And try to make your theory square with this Scripture:

John 8:58 (HCSB)
[SUP]58 [/SUP] Jesus said to them, “I assure you: Before Abraham was, I am.”

And try to make your theory square with this Scripture:

John 17:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

And try to make your theory square with this Scripture:

John 17:5 (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

 

[Hoffco]

I see some GREAT posts by: P-rehbein, alexis, J-Kay-2 ,VCO and others . This is a very essential doct. of the Bible. Jesus claimed to be the "I AM" Jh. 8:58, of the O.T. He is the "Father of eternity," BUT not the "everlasting Father" that is not a correct translation of Isaiah's word. He always called The Father, His Father "HOLY Father" Jh.17. more later, Hoffco

 

[Kerry]

Jehovah's witness have added their own version just like Mormons its called the watchtower and according to their faith Jesus came back some where around 1888.

 

[VCO]

Someone help me out here........seriously. I don't know, have not been able to determine which group exactly it is that teaches such as we are reading here.............Those who deny the Holy Trinity, the Holy Spirit, the Divinity of Christ.......what group are they? It would really help me to understand who I am conversing with............Thanks........

Those wascally wabbits would be literally be all the psueodo-christian cults.

Seriously, there are many groups, who deny the Deity of Jesus Christ and the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Mainline Christianity does not recognize them as true Christians, but rather as Christian-like Cults that are spreading at least one if not all of the following: false doctrines, a false Christ, a false gospel, denying that all of the Bible was inspired by GOD, and usually are themselves deceived into believing that they really are Christians. They have always been around since the beginning of Christianity but as prophesied they are becoming more numerous in these Last Days.

2 Timothy 3:13-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Evil people and impostors will become worse, deceiving and being deceived.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and firmly believed. You know those who taught you,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and you know that from childhood you have known the sacred Scriptures, which are able to give you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 4:3-5 (NKJV)
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

2 Timothy 3:5-8 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;

Matthew 24:23-26 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] See, I have told you beforehand.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.

Do you know that the Jehovah Witnesses teach and believe that Christ's body was vaporized and that he has already returned spiritually and indwells the building of the Watchtower Society's publishing house controlling everything published there, so that all of it including their magazines are equal to the Word of GOD. I had a friend confront two Jehovah Witnesses at his door several years ago and asked them, "If I can show you that what the KJV of the Bible teaches contradicts what the Watchtower Magazine teaches, which will you believe?" The older one of the two Jehovah Witnesses replied, "The Watchtower Magazine of course, because it has never led me astray."

If you really want to study which groups are in reality psuedo-christian cults, I would suggest three books that have been around for decades:

Kingdom of the Cults - by Dr. Walter Martin.

The Seduction of Christianity - by Dr. Dave Hunt & T.A. McMahon

Beyond the Seduction of Christianity - by Dr. Dave Hunt

The two Dave Hunt books can be bought used for one penny plus shipping on Amazon.com, but the Dr. Walter Martin book "Kingdom of the Cults" is still very popular, so it has not come down much in price. But maybe you can find it in a Used Book Store. I also would recommend any of the old John Ankerburg Show - TV programs that are posted on YouTube. He also did a lot of programs exposing psuedo-christian Cults. In fact here is series of his shows that featured Dr. Walter Martin: Will men be sent to hell because they haven't heard about Jesus? - YouTube

 

[Conotocarious]

Those wascally wabbits would be literally be all the psueodo-christian cults.

Seriously, there are many groups, who deny the Deity of Jesus Christ and the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Mainline Christianity does not recognize them as true Christians, but rather as Christian-like Cults that are spreading at least one if not all of the following: false doctrines, a false Christ, a false gospel, denying that all of the Bible was inspired by GOD, and usually are themselves deceived into believing that they really are Christians. They have always been around since the beginning of Christianity but as prophesied they are becoming more numerous in these Last Days.

2 Timothy 3:13-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Evil people and impostors will become worse, deceiving and being deceived.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and firmly believed. You know those who taught you,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and you know that from childhood you have known the sacred Scriptures, which are able to give you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 4:3-5 (NKJV)
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

2 Timothy 3:5-8 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;

Matthew 24:23-26 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] See, I have told you beforehand.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.

Do you know that the Jehovah Witnesses teach and believe that Christ's body was vaporized and that he has already returned spiritually and indwells the building of the Watchtower Society's publishing house controlling everything published there, so that all of it including their magazines are equal to the Word of GOD. I had a friend confront two Jehovah Witnesses at his door several years ago and asked them, "If I can show you that what the KJV of the Bible teaches contradicts what the Watchtower Magazine teaches, which will you believe?" The older one of the two Jehovah Witnesses replied, "The Watchtower Magazine of course, because it has never led me astray."

If you really want to study which groups are in reality psuedo-christian cults, I would suggest three books that have been around for decades:

Kingdom of the Cults - by Dr. Walter Martin.

The Seduction of Christianity - by Dr. Dave Hunt & T.A. McMahon

Beyond the Seduction of Christianity - by Dr. Dave Hunt

The two Dave Hunt books can be bought used for one penny plus shipping on Amazon.com, but the Dr. Walter Martin book "Kingdom of the Cults" is still very popular, so it has not come down much in price. But maybe you can find it in a Used Book Store. I also would recommend any of the old John Ankerburg Show - TV programs that are posted on YouTube. He also did a lot of programs exposing psuedo-christian Cults. In fact here is series of his shows that featured Dr. Walter Martin: Will men be sent to hell because they haven't heard about Jesus? - YouTube

Good point. Idols beget themselves.

 

[Kerry]

It is beyond me how anyone can read the KJV and determine that their is no trinity. Keep listen to your false teacher or read it for yourself.

 

[danschance]

I see some GREAT posts by: P-rehbein, alexis, J-Kay-2 ,VCO and others . This is a very essential doct. of the Bible. Jesus claimed to be the "I AM" Jh. 8:58, of the O.T. He is the "Father of eternity," BUT not the "everlasting Father" that is not a correct translation of Isaiah's word. He always called The Father, His Father "HOLY Father" Jh.17. more later, Hoffco

Yes, Jehovah's Witness' claim to be bible students but this is false. They are students of the Watchtower Bible and Track Society publications. They are discouraged from simply reading the bible and kept busy by reading the Watchtower and Awake magazines. These magazines fills their heads with the lies and distortions taught be Charles Taze Russel who founded the JW's.

Charles Taze Russel was a shoe salesman who had no theological training from any college or university. He claimed he could read and write Greek. However under oath, in a court room he was asked to translate a simple sentence in Greek and could not translate a single word.

 

[VCO]

Thank you!
You saying that about my youth is perfectly accurate.
I read The Bible a lot but have very little spiritual guidance, which is why I joined this chat.

Love you and thank you for the guidance and caring response, yesterday I received a harsh response and was told I was rebelling from God without explanation of how to change this. I took it personally and was very hurt.. It's not his fault I know better than to let people upset me that way... Okay my point is members like you show me Christ's love and that's what right now along with understanding that I need the most!

AMEN, I for one feel called to encourage younger Christians. I am so thankful that GOD led you to this site, because it is safer than some of other sites that I have seen; which were dominated but the false Christian cults. Your hunger to learn is highly commendable, and we older Christians will be on guard to point out the false doctrines that a few bring to this site.


Hebrews 10:25 (NIV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

Hebrews 3:12-14 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

 

[weakness]

It says (Heb 5:8,9) Though he were a son , yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. Phil 2:6,7) Who being in the form of God ,thought it not robbery to be egual with God;(7) But made of himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men (8)And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself,and became obedient unto death ,even the death of the cross...(Heb 12:1) Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin that doth so easily beset us,and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

 

[fredjames]

Peace be with you, the word 'Trinity' has become more of a debate than discussion. Even after many explanation, using the gift of wisdom to the sound doctrine by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, this has become more towards one sided that the other is disregarded, More than two or three witnesses have explained why we believe in the word Trinity'. Then here comes another person to discuss this word all over again and assuredly justify it as false.

Quoting Scriptures taken out of context does not justify a true story but only sound doctrine does.

So Adam, do not compromise and be tempted again to eat what Eve is eating, that may be incomplete deceitful food that almost seem complete, for you will surely die again.

As it is written also;
1. "HE (JESUS) was in the 'fullness' and 'likeness' of GOD." (Isn't HE the God of Christian)
2. "If you have seen me, you have seen the FATHER." (since GOD is SPIRIT and invisible, who did HE take on image)
3. "My children....................................................." (JESUS called HIS disciples)
4. "....................................My Lord my God" (Disciple Thomas declared this in front of JESUS and the disciples)
5. "You are God" (GOD did not declare this to any of HIS angels but to the resurrected JESUS CHRIST of Nazareth, to sit at HIS right side)
6. "Mighty God and Everlasting Father." (written in the book of Isaiah)

As it is written; "Get behind me satan! you think like everyone else."

 

[VCO]

Jesus was not "fully God." That is just ridiculous. Like saying "1 + 2 = 2." It's a mathematical impossibility. Jesus' identity was the Word, the Logos, but emptied of the power of God, so no longer God.

Okay, that is your choice, but that Officially makes you an UNBELIEVER in HIS Deity.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But the unbeliever does not welcome what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.


John 3:3-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again,he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP] “But how can anyone be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked Him. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born?”
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

 

[p_rehbein]

Ok, thanks........for the information concerning who this is trying to teach this stuff............I know who to avoid now. Seriously, some of what has been posted here is very, very dangerous in my opinion........Thanks again, and I'll bow out of this one.

 

[Gjolll]

Okay, that is your choice, but that Officially makes you an UNBELIEVER in HIS Deity.

You're playing with fire. I said Jesus was the Logos. The Logos is of God and from God. You're the one denying the Logos is of God. "God the Son" is no son at all. Your theology is all screwed up, just like Calvin's was. Next you'll be excommunicating me and burning me at the stake. Just remember. If you can't answer for your accusations, the judgement will be on you.

 

[Swingalong]

Naturally, Satan will USE so-called "real Greek scholars" and so-called 'christians' with biased, uniformed, inaccurate, opinions against Jehovah's Witnesses. Much of their negative information against Jehovah's Witnesses and the Organization we proudly are affiliated with, is chalked full of hearsay, and second and third party information that is designed to make Jehovah's Witness appear as a non-Christian cult. Sadly, many people believe these falsehoods. It is no surprise or shock that these false allegations are out there. As a matter of fact we, Jehovah's Witnesses, expect it. We were forewarned by the Scriptures, that Satan, by any means necessary will spread hatred and lies toward true servants of Jehovah God (Matthew 5:11,12; 2nd Timothy 3:12). One of the tools and means that he is using is the "weed like", "spiritually toxic" christians that have overran the earth in general. There is no proof of what they, so-called "scholars" assert against Jehovah's Witnesses. The organization that I proudly am affiliated with does not use secular quotes from other sources UNLESS, that source ABSOLUTELY backs up what the Bible says, and even then, that source is seriously scrutinized as to how others will be affected because of using that reference work. We, true Christians, have always been the underdog. This fact only serves to strengthen me; and encourages me to continue talking about and supporting the "good news of God's Kingdom" and anything that relates to it, because it is proof that I am in the right religion. I realize and accept the fact that this post will make me very unpopular and even more hated by "weed-like" Christians. Yet, I am not in the business of impressing humans or being popular with humans. I want to make a "name" with Jehovah God, not "mere dust". Oh well, it definitely goes with the "territory" and that is part of "picking up" my "torture stake" which I happily accept (Luke 9:23)

What do real greek scholars say of the New World Translation?














For more info: New World Translation and Its Critics

 

[oldhermit]

Naturally, Satan will USE so-called "real Greek scholars" and so-called 'christians' with biased, uniformed, inaccurate, opinions against Jehovah's Witnesses. Much of their negative information against Jehovah's Witnesses and the Organization we proudly are affiliated with, is chalked full of hearsay, and second and third party information that is designed to make Jehovah's Witness appear as a non-Christian cult. Sadly, many people believe these falsehoods. It is no surprise or shock that these false allegations are out there. As a matter of fact we, Jehovah's Witnesses, expect it. We were forewarned by the Scriptures, that Satan, by any means necessary will spread hatred and lies toward true servants of Jehovah God (Matthew 5:11,12; 2nd Timothy 3:12). One of the tools and means that he is using is the "weed like", "spiritually toxic" christians that have overran the earth in general. There is no proof of what they, so-called "scholars" assert against Jehovah's Witnesses. The organization that I proudly am affiliated with does not use secular quotes from other sources UNLESS, that source ABSOLUTELY backs up what the Bible says, and even then, that source is seriously scrutinized as to how others will be affected because of using that reference work. We, true Christians, have always been the underdog. This fact only serves to strengthen me; and encourages me to continue talking about and supporting the "good news of God's Kingdom" and anything that relates to it, because it is proof that I am in the right religion. I realize and accept the fact that this post will make me very unpopular and even more hated by "weed-like" Christians. Yet, I am not in the business of impressing humans or being popular with humans. I want to make a "name" with Jehovah God, not "mere dust". Oh well, it definitely goes with the "territory" and that is part of "picking up" my "torture stake" which I happily accept (Luke 9:23)

It does not even take a scholar of Greek to point out the flagrant abuses of the Greek in the NWT. The misrepresentations are so blatant that any first or second year Greek student could point them out.

 

[p_rehbein]

QUOTE: Much of their negative information against Jehovah's Witnesses and the Organization we proudly are affiliated with, is chalked full of hearsay, and second and third party information that is designed to make Jehovah's Witness appear as a non-Christian cult.
END QUOTE..............

Actually..............much of the negative information that leads Christians to conclude that Jehovah's Witness are non-Christian comes directly from what they teach.............FYI..........read the comments on this thread.........

(just saying)

Oh, no, shoot, wait.......I wasn't gonna respond to this thread anymore.........sigh.......never mind.......

 

[Swingalong]

Usually people in connection with a religious subject, in this instance the NWT Bible, use the words "flagrant" and "blatant" or other similar words because of being ignorant to the true facts. And so since "the shoe fits" their 'MO', they feel obligated to spew out their disdain for whatever is being discussed, in this instance, the NWT Bible. What's interesting, is that many who are uninformed 'christians' cannot even authentically site or reference scripturally their imagined allegations concerning this beautiful Bible, the NWT, or by citing scriptures to back up what they say and so they attack with dogmatic words as if they want to appear authoritive, as if they know what they are talking about. Usually these ones go by what they've heard others say and they never take the time to do research to see for themselves if what they believe or heard is true. People do not like going against the grain, going against popular opinion. Nor do many like "facing the storm" and so because of their "fear of men" and what others will say or think, they go along with or fall in line with the crowd rather than face the truth. The old saying: "If the shoe fits, wear it" is applicable.

It does not even take a scholar of Greek to point out the flagrant abuses of the Greek in the NWT. The misrepresentations are so blatant that any first or second year Greek student could point them out.