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For Sabbath keepers, How does obedience to the Sabbath affect your Salvation?
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Now you turn around, thank our Lord, and say to obey the Sabbath.
When God created the world, God established the law it was run by. The tides of the ocean is one example of this law. Moses wrote some of it, Christ wrote law also.
The law is how God created the earth to operate. Faith is knowing of all of God. It is knowing of God's love, of the spiritual part of our world, all of God and that includes law. Faith includes depending on this so thoroughly, believing it so completely, you would give up what is dearest to you in this world if you thought God asked it of you.
When you put this truth into the question "law out weight faith" the question itself doesn't make sense. Faith includes believing in God's law, their is no "outweigh" to it.
I have explained this OP at least a dozen times, and the explanation has fallen on deaf ears because those asking do not read the reply. Either they do not read it, or they do not understand, for whatever motive.
Yes, I know you think those who observe the Seventh Day as the sabbath of the Lord are "working," but most who ask this have not read what those who do have to say. I know you believe you have rest from your employment as soon as you say you believe Jesus, so it is time you people begin to read what is actually being shared by the others. We KNOW what you say you believe, and we also understand the accusation, though unfounded, of earning salvation by works. We understand your posts, now it is your turn.
One could easily say if you believe observing the Sabbath on the Seventh Day as taught by the Commandments of Yahweh is works, then answer this for me, what is your Sabbath, and since you have one, are you not working for your salvation? That makes more sense because it is your manner of thinking. So you accuse those who observe the Seventh Day as Yahweh commands of works for salvation, while your Sabbath is not works! Why do you even bother?
Yes, I know you think those who observe the Seventh Day as the sabbath of the Lord are "working," but most who ask this have not read what those who do have to say. I know you believe you have rest from your employment as soon as you say you believe Jesus, so it is time you people begin to read what is actually being shared by the others. We KNOW what you say you believe, and we also understand the accusation, though unfounded, of earning salvation by works. We understand your posts, now it is your turn.
One could easily say if you believe observing the Sabbath on the Seventh Day as taught by the Commandments of Yahweh is works, then answer this for me, what is your Sabbath, and since you have one, are you not working for your salvation? That makes more sense because it is your manner of thinking. So you accuse those who observe the Seventh Day as Yahweh commands of works for salvation, while your Sabbath is not works! Why do you even bother?
Sabbath-obsessors are hypocrites and cowards. They talk like the sabbath is a life or death issue, continually condemn others who oppose them, and then can't even vote in a simple poll to openly declare their position.
The letters of the law were not written until centuries after Abraham, so your implication that Abraham followed the law of Moses is foolish speculation. Adam was given a law, and it wasn't the law of Moses. Laws are specific to their time and place.
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danschance
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chubbena
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Moses said: Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it. See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess. This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Law keepers have been called worse names to fulfil the prophecy of Yeshua.
Paul makes it clear that Moses was declaring that righteousness is through faith and not the works of law.
For Moses writes about the righteousness that is from the law: “The person who does these things will live in them.”
But the righteousness from faith speaks like this [which Moses said]: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down), or “Who will descend into the abyss?” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), that if you [in obedience] confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” Romans 10:5-11
It is clear then that the obedience Moses was referring to (the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it) is 'the word of faith that we proclaim; that if you [in obedience] confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved'.
Sorry. Nothing about following the law there.
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Matt i love you but i gotta disagree with this thread, did Jesus said that we must keep the sabbath to be saved? honestly i have no problem with anyone keeping the sabbath, but we gotta know where it stands i mean the bible said it was meant for the Jews in the first place you can see that in hebrews, all that is meant for us is the holy spirit, you see the bible said that the Jews were purposely blinded by God so they cannot see that a better testament was made by Jesus to set us free so they still try to obtain righteousness by keeping the 10 commandments, and we all know righteousness comes from the holy spirit and nothing else, but as i was saying i don't have a problem with anyone keeping the sabbath just know where it stands, i actually was considering to myself that i need a full day devoted to God myself
In Matt's defense, this thread was spawned from him taking issue with me that I was clumping all sabbath keepers together. He asserted that sabbath keepers do not believe keeping the sabbath is necessary for salvation; I disagreed stating that nearly all (here) believe that sabbath keeping is a requirement for salvation. He suggested making a poll to find out, and this thread is the result. Unfortunately, as I correctly predicted, very few of them have responded to make their views clearly known.
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ok i understand, well i was told here a few times that we must keep the sabbath to be saved i think you were among that thread aswell when i was told that, honestly when i heard that i felt bad.. because that is like saying we don't need salvation to be we got another option which is keeping the sabbath and we can be saved also
You felt bad because it is the devil's lie to try to bring us under bondage to, and condemnation of, the law. The devil's strength is the law because he can control us to do his will through it's condemnation. In Christ there is no condemnation.
well to be honest and felt bad because someone will even suggest such a thing and you are right that is a deception of the devil to make people take their eyes off of Jesus that is the trap right there when we put our trust in something else other than God
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chubbena
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The straw man of "the works of law" is getting old.
Paul said: Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
It is clear that Paul quoted what Moses said in Deut 30. It is clear that Moses didn't make up the law but rather Yahweh spoke through him. It is clear that Yeshua is the word of Yahweh. It is clear when one confesses with his mouth that Yeshua is Lord he accepts the authority of the Word.
Paul did not say 'Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.', but rather 'Do we, then, nullify law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold law.'
There is no definite article THE in the Greek, so Paul wasn't saying that we are establishing the rule of the law of Moses through faith, but that we are establishing the rule of the law of GOD by faith, because faith is GOD's ultimate law.
Obviously Paul didn't think that 'works of law' was a straw man because he constantly warned against their practice.
Josh, no worries. HRFTD, is correct in the motivation behind this poll. It's a census if you will.
The poll was spawned from another thread where HRFTD and I were talking about a Sabbath-keeper's belief that you must keep the sabbath to be saved. I maintained that not all of us Sabbath-keepers believe that way. So I created the poll to see where the Sabbath-Keepers in CC stand.
So, sorry Dan, you're completely wrong. I know that keeping the Sabbath has no bearing on my salvation.
Look at my vote.
honestly matt your most reasonable one out of the bunch, so i guess i can ask you a few question, do you feel that keeping the sabbath is a MUST for all believers or do you believe we have a choice weather to keep it or not, but before you anwser that question take a look at this scripture [h=3]Colossians 2:16 ESV[/h]Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.