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It is my intention to change the way people look at this argument. This is an old, old, old argument and the circle continues. As with anything, there is a root. What is the root to this issue? Why does it irk people so fiercely? We know that Paul was a man that was led by God. This is rightly never questioned. The thing is that Paul would pointedly state when something was directly revealed to him by Christ and, thus, was Christ speaking and passing down something. In the Timothy account, Paul does not say that God told him women shouldn't teach in church. Paul specifically states that it is him (Paul) that does not permit this and gives his reason why.
Why, then, does this issue arise over and over and over again? If we refuse to look at the root, we will find ourselves here again in a few weeks. Why are women so crushed under religious and political regimes? Why are they stifled and abused and treated as property? Why are they mocked and discounted, even in the church? Why, when they offer sound teaching, do some retort with "women aren't supposed to teach men" when they are convicted by the teaching?
I have no agenda. I am no feminist. I firmly believe in the headship of men and in men being over women in the said role. However, does this mean that women are to be silent and never speak or give account or teach in church? No. Based on two verses, we have built an empire. Why?
What is the true root of this issue?
Why, then, does this issue arise over and over and over again? If we refuse to look at the root, we will find ourselves here again in a few weeks. Why are women so crushed under religious and political regimes? Why are they stifled and abused and treated as property? Why are they mocked and discounted, even in the church? Why, when they offer sound teaching, do some retort with "women aren't supposed to teach men" when they are convicted by the teaching?
I have no agenda. I am no feminist. I firmly believe in the headship of men and in men being over women in the said role. However, does this mean that women are to be silent and never speak or give account or teach in church? No. Based on two verses, we have built an empire. Why?
What is the true root of this issue?
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In order to understand a principle of God, we must factor in every word of scripture knowing it all leads to truth, without any one piece of truth outweighing another. You are not doing this. It is also necessary, if we are to learn what scripture says about God principles, to learn the culture and background of the people God is giving these principles to us through. You are also not doing this. Women, history tells us, were being making too much noise and being over bearing in the church Paul was correcting.
So, from the beginning men were to lead and women's job was equally important, but be a helper to men as they led. We need to look at the women who God used as leaders. We find it in judges, and in Paul's use of women in his ministry. We need to look at how God elevated the status of women at a time that women were no more than slaves. Only then can we gain true knowledge of how God wants women used in His church.
So, from the beginning men were to lead and women's job was equally important, but be a helper to men as they led. We need to look at the women who God used as leaders. We find it in judges, and in Paul's use of women in his ministry. We need to look at how God elevated the status of women at a time that women were no more than slaves. Only then can we gain true knowledge of how God wants women used in His church.
I
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding
scripture gives clear instructions. but it seems people want to twist them to favor a certain agenda.
especially women wont like it because they may feel its "unfair", but it is what it is. its instruction. how do you think moses felt when God told him to slay his son? did moses try to reason with him and get a way out of his instruction? its something he had to do to prove his love for God was greater than his love for himself, his son, and this world... which he was about to, but God stopped him, as you know.
its just the way God left it.
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding
scripture gives clear instructions. but it seems people want to twist them to favor a certain agenda.
especially women wont like it because they may feel its "unfair", but it is what it is. its instruction. how do you think moses felt when God told him to slay his son? did moses try to reason with him and get a way out of his instruction? its something he had to do to prove his love for God was greater than his love for himself, his son, and this world... which he was about to, but God stopped him, as you know.
its just the way God left it.
M
Hello Mystdancer I hear what you are saying although if you feel your created role is a mockery to yourself, I believe you have some things to sort out with God.
God is an old old old God who does not change.
We cannot assign ourselves authority without Gods backing nor change our created roles to suit ourselves.
Man was created for something, and woman was created for something....
can you find the verse where it states the purpose of each genders role and duty under the purpose of Gods creation?
God is an old old old God who does not change.
We cannot assign ourselves authority without Gods backing nor change our created roles to suit ourselves.
Man was created for something, and woman was created for something....
can you find the verse where it states the purpose of each genders role and duty under the purpose of Gods creation?
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I don't feel any such thing. I truly wish people would read my posts through entirely. Women are mocked in churches. Even here, where they say something profound that a follower of these verses is convicted by, they hurl these Scriptures as stones at them.
Here's the thing: Paul said 'I do not suffer women to teach in church.' I, as in PAUL, not God. I. That is key, and yet, that is ignored. Yet, when it is about how Paul said that he, yes Paul again, prefers that all remain single, everyone is on that one. Oh, that's Paul not Christ. What is the difference, I ask you?
The root, folks. The root. This isn't about me. I'll respond to the call God has on my life whether people accept it or not. Why? Because God means a great deal more to me than the mere opinion of man. Yet, so long as people refuse to acknowledge that Paul was stating his opinion there, not godly decree, based on cultural happenings and timings, this age old argument will continue forever and ever.
Here's the thing: Paul said 'I do not suffer women to teach in church.' I, as in PAUL, not God. I. That is key, and yet, that is ignored. Yet, when it is about how Paul said that he, yes Paul again, prefers that all remain single, everyone is on that one. Oh, that's Paul not Christ. What is the difference, I ask you?
The root, folks. The root. This isn't about me. I'll respond to the call God has on my life whether people accept it or not. Why? Because God means a great deal more to me than the mere opinion of man. Yet, so long as people refuse to acknowledge that Paul was stating his opinion there, not godly decree, based on cultural happenings and timings, this age old argument will continue forever and ever.
Perhaps he wasn't talking about the foolishness of Scripture and the Gospel, and instead was talking about the foolishness that always comes up with arguments in debates like this?
If it can be taken 1 of 2 ways, which way did you initially assume? The one that causes division, or the one that creates unity. If you were uncertain to begin with, then you should have asked for clarification before making brash statements saying he denied the Gospel.
And ironically enough, this particular back and forth tangent of the thread has become quite foolish, yet entertaining to watch!
If it can be taken 1 of 2 ways, which way did you initially assume? The one that causes division, or the one that creates unity. If you were uncertain to begin with, then you should have asked for clarification before making brash statements saying he denied the Gospel.
And ironically enough, this particular back and forth tangent of the thread has become quite foolish, yet entertaining to watch!
Perhaps he wasn't talking about the foolishness of Scripture and the Gospel, and instead was talking about the foolishness that always comes up with arguments in debates like this?
If it can be taken 1 of 2 ways, which way did you initially assume? The one that causes division, or the one that creates unity. If you were uncertain to begin with, then you should have asked for clarification before making brash statements saying he denied the Gospel.
And ironically enough, this particular back and forth tangent of the thread has become quite foolish, yet entertaining to watch!
If it can be taken 1 of 2 ways, which way did you initially assume? The one that causes division, or the one that creates unity. If you were uncertain to begin with, then you should have asked for clarification before making brash statements saying he denied the Gospel.
And ironically enough, this particular back and forth tangent of the thread has become quite foolish, yet entertaining to watch!
Oh, wait, that is not foolishness, it is MBFM.
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