For Sabbath keepers, How does obedience to the Sabbath affect your Salvation?

[john832]

Uuuuugh? A question for a question. I will bite but it would nice to get an answer for this instead of the tip toe dancing around question asking.

If you read Exodus 16, Moses didn't tell them to remember the Sabbath but instead "Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest," and went into detail on what they should do. If this Sabbath was traditional like everyone is saying, Moses would have never had to tell them that it was a Sabbath, they would have known it. Also, maybe because the events of Exodus 16 happened before Exodus 20? *shrugs*

Nope, you got it wrong...

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The Sabbath Command hearkens back to creation. You know, about 2100 years before the first Jew ever lived and about 2500 years before Mt. Sinai.

 

[jahsoul]

Nope, you got it wrong...

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The Sabbath Command hearkens back to creation. You know, about 2100 years before the first Jew ever lived and about 2500 years before Mt. Sinai.

Do I?

Ex 16:23-30
Then he said to them, "This is what the Lord has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.'"
24 So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it.
25 Then Moses said, "Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field.
26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none."
27 Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none.
28 And the Lord said to Moses, "How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?
29 See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day."
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.
NKJV

This was the first mention of the word Sabbath in the Bible. Why didn't he tell them to remember the Sabbath here? Matter of fact, why did it go from "a Sabbath" to "the Sabbath?"

And this goes back to the questions that I've posted that yall keep avoiding? *sigh*

 

[just-me]

What is interesting is this


You said this covenant came on Mt sinai ok well said but to say Abraham did not keep the ten commandments and other stautute of God is a lie

Ask yourself this if Abraham did not keep commandments hmm i beleive the first 2 commands are do not have other Gods and not to make graven images hmm did did father Abraham do such things hmmmm but wait He never kept them right



hmmm this should let you think deeper and what a convenant is and it promises

Exodus 2:24

King James Version (KJV)

24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.


Exodus 6:4-5

King James Version (KJV)

4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.



what covenant was this ?
Is it the same as the one in Mt sianai Why or Why not

Good point. There is another thing to think about as well. Rhetorically, How did Noah know which animals were clean when God told him to take 7 pairs of each clean animal, and just 1 pair of all others? The law was probably established in part from the beginning for Able knew what God would accept also. These are really not assumptions, when we set our minds to understanding the truth of it. If the law is to expose transgressions, then God's will had to be known before the flood also.

His grace is bigger than just arbitrarily putting people to death before they know why.

 

[JaumeJ]

Please consider the declarations below.

Eze 20:23
I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;
Eze 20:24
Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
Eze 20:25
Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
Eze 20:26
And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD.

 

[john832]

Do I?

Ex 16:23-30
Then he said to them, "This is what the Lord has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.'"
24 So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it.
25 Then Moses said, "Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field.
26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none."
27 Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none.
28 And the Lord said to Moses, "How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?
29 See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day."
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.
NKJV

This was the first mention of the word Sabbath in the Bible. Why didn't he tell them to remember the Sabbath here? Matter of fact, why did it go from "a Sabbath" to "the Sabbath?"

And this goes back to the questions that I've posted that yall keep avoiding? *sigh*

Again, what does ths verse refer to?

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

While you are sighing, try reading this and you might actually see that the seventh day of creation week is called the Sabbath.

 

[john832]

Good point. There is another thing to think about as well. Rhetorically, How did Noah know which animals were clean when God told him to take 7 pairs of each clean animal, and just 1 pair of all others? The law was probably established in part from the beginning for Able knew what God would accept also. These are really not assumptions, when we set our minds to understanding the truth of it. If the law is to expose transgressions, then God's will had to be known before the flood also.

His grace is bigger than just arbitrarily putting people to death before they know why.

Clean and unclean was ineffect from teh beginning. The Designer and Creator of the human body knows the appropriate fuel to run it on.

 

[Isdaniel]

Good point. There is another thing to think about as well. Rhetorically, How did Noah know which animals were clean when God told him to take 7 pairs of each clean animal, and just 1 pair of all others? The law was probably established in part from the beginning for Able knew what God would accept also. These are really not assumptions, when we set our minds to understanding the truth of it. If the law is to expose transgressions, then God's will had to be known before the flood also.

His grace is bigger than just arbitrarily putting people to death before they know why.

Yet we see God reminded them about this law in leviticus hmm
why? all of us came out of Egypt and we have to be constanly reminded of God true ways of worship because as the jews we lost it in egypt

 

[Isdaniel]

Uuuuugh? A question for a question. I will bite but it would nice to get an answer for this instead of the tip toe dancing around question asking.

If you read Exodus 16, Moses didn't tell them to remember the Sabbath but instead "Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest," and went into detail on what they should do. If this Sabbath was traditional like everyone is saying, Moses would have never had to tell them that it was a Sabbath, they would have known it. Also, maybe because the events of Exodus 16 happened before Exodus 20? *shrugs*

Why did he not tell them remeber to not make idols hmmm

 

[jahsoul]

Again, what does ths verse refer to?

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

While you are sighing, try reading this and you might actually see that the seventh day of creation week is called the Sabbath.

I'm sighing because you refuse (or anyone) to answer my legitimate questions. If you all just sayid, "hey, I have no idea" I can take it as such but to approach this like you have such knowledge of the subject but then run from questions is suspect.

And again, if this was as traditional as some are making it, why would Exodus 20:11 have to be included in the 10 Commandment? If this was passed down from generation to generation, they wouldn't have known that, or are you telling me that the Hebrew's rested without having any understanding why?

 

[jahsoul]

Why did he not tell them remeber to not make idols hmmm

In other words, you can't answer my questions?

 

[Isdaniel]

I'm sighing because you refuse (or anyone) to answer my legitimate questions. If you all just sayid, "hey, I have no idea" I can take it as such but to approach this like you have such knowledge of the subject but then run from questions is suspect.

And again, if this was as traditional as some are making it, why would Exodus 20:11 have to be included in the 10 Commandment? If this was passed down from generation to generation, they wouldn't have known that, or are you telling me that the Hebrew's rested without having any understanding why?

What is the question ?

 

[jahsoul]

The question on post #1132

 

[Isdaniel]

Uuuuugh? A question for a question. I will bite but it would nice to get an answer for this instead of the tip toe dancing around question asking.

If you read Exodus 16, Moses didn't tell them to remember the Sabbath but instead "Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest," and went into detail on what they should do. If this Sabbath was traditional like everyone is saying, Moses would have never had to tell them that it was a Sabbath, they would have known it. Also, maybe because the events of Exodus 16 happened before Exodus 20? *shrugs*

Exodus 16
lets see even though i t is answered to you you will not understand it but here goes

4 Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

Was sabbath mentioned early in the veres as Moses said it
No, it says law hmm just like the ten therefore sabbath was part of a law that they already knew thus moses repeated what God said about his law which included the sabbath that Israel already knew
Note God did not say sabbath He said law

that i may prove them whether they will walk in my law or not it was not new my friend you are
reading things into scripture

Israel was in egypt and God has to remind thm constanly about time etc
It says law are you saying that the other 9 were not part of that law in Ex 16 ? please prove it

 

[Isdaniel]

In other words, you can't answer my questions?

the questions had all been answer but the question is hmm that is not the answer you want to here

was there always an appoited time to meet God in genesis ? Why or Why not note i did not say sabbath

 

[just-me]

Bringing this back up so I can get an answer regarding it.



Also, if this was passed down from generation to generation starting with Adam, why did the purpose behind the Sabbath have to be explained in the 10 Commandments? Why is that the longest of the commandments with the most detail if they already knew about it?

May I answer? One must take into account that Jacob's offspring lived 400 years under the rule of Egypt to whom God didn't give any instructions that I read about in the Bible. By that time everything before Joseph was lost and forgotten. Abraham knew to sacrifice, and according to the Bible, Joseph was the last person to listen to God, and interpret dreams. I'm sure Egypt taught nothing but their laws, and they weren't God's statutes, but rather gods with a small g i.e fallen angels and nephilim. In spiritual terms, Egypt represents the world's values that always made it a habit of propagating paganism.

 

[john832]

Bringing this back up so I can get an answer regarding it.



Also, if this was passed down from generation to generation starting with Adam, why did the purpose behind the Sabbath have to be explained in the 10 Commandments? Why is that the longest of the commandments with the most detail if they already knew about it?

Exo 1:7 And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them.
Exo 1:8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
Exo 1:9 And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we:
Exo 1:10 Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land.
Exo 1:11 Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses.

Compare this to the Nazi concentration camps in WWII. Just to make sure you realize this...

Exo 1:13 And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour:
Exo 1:14 And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigour.
Exo 1:15 And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:
Exo 1:16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

Now this went on for at least 200 and some years of seven days a week forced labor. These people lost the understanding of the Sabbath and the other Commandments. What do you suppose would happen after well over 200 years of national slavery? They forgot. How many young people today remember what it took in 1776 to secure our independence?

By the way, this answers your question about Deut 4:10.

 

[Hamster]

Uh, do you eat three squares a day?

I eat 4 or 5 times including snacks, I love my fruit and veggies! But lets think reasonable, did the earlier Church go house to house Daily eating a meal at everyone's house? I don't think so. There would be some pretty fat people!

The scripture says: "And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart" Acts 2:46.

They continue daily with one accord in the temple. They break bread from house to house. They ate their meat with gladness and singleness of heart. This is what the Church did to worship God in spirit and in truth. 1 Corinthians 10:16,18
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

 

[john832]

I eat 4 or 5 times including snacks, I love my fruit and veggies! But lets think reasonable, did the earlier Church go house to house Daily eating a meal at everyone's house? I don't think so. There would be some pretty fat people!

The scripture says: "And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart" Acts 2:46.

They continue daily with one accord in the temple. They break bread from house to house. They ate their meat with gladness and singleness of heart. This is what the Church did to worship God in spirit and in truth. 1 Corinthians 10:16,18
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

Let's look at the early church...

Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Ever stop to ask yourself why? First of all notice who is there?

Devout Jews. What were they doing there? Waiting for the church to start up? Nope...

Exo 23:14 Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year.
Exo 23:15 Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty
Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.
Exo 23:17 Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.

They were there keeping the Feast of Pentecost. Notice where they had pilgramaged from...

Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Most had traveled a great distance. Now Peter stood up and preached one of the most powerful inspired sermons ever preached...

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Now where were these three thousand out of towners going to stay? The local Motel 6 was probably full and they needed to stay somewhere, so those who lived there opened their homes to these new converts...

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

This is not describing daily eucharist, it is describing the wonderful outpouring of love these new converts had for each other.

 

[john832]

Let's add a little bit to this, if this is as you say, daily eucharist, don't you think it a little strange that these folks, who were devout Jews the day before, were suddenly renouncing the Passover and eating Wonder bread and drinking Welch's grape juice? They were there to keep the Feast...

Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

If you want to take this as the prescribed method for the N.T. church, would you comply with this...

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

do you believe that Christ wants us to sell all and put it in the pot and live in communism?

 

[Hamster]

Let's look at the early church...

Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Ever stop to ask yourself why? First of all notice who is there?

Devout Jews. What were they doing there? Waiting for the church to start up? Nope...

Exo 23:14 Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year.
Exo 23:15 Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty
Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.
Exo 23:17 Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.

They were there keeping the Feast of Pentecost. Notice where they had pilgramaged from...

Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Most had traveled a great distance. Now Peter stood up and preached one of the most powerful inspired sermons ever preached...

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Now where were these three thousand out of towners going to stay? The local Motel 6 was probably full and they needed to stay somewhere, so those who lived there opened their homes to these new converts...

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

This is not describing daily eucharist, it is describing the wonderful outpouring of love these new converts had for each other.

If the Church was keeping the feast of the passover which was under the law of Moses, why did the Church scatter except the apostles, if they were such big buddies, eating and communing for the same reason! Acts 8:1