Can deity die?

[p_rehbein]

if God could die then he really wouldn't be God, would he?

God the Son..............the Deity of Jesus Christ didn't die..........the earthly form He took upon Himself is what died.

Just as one day your earthly form will die..........yet your eternal spirit will still be living.........only question is: Where?

Everyone has that choice to make...........where to spend eternity..........I think you will be with Him.......don't you?

 

[p_rehbein]

May be this verse will clarify the situation.

Jud 1:10 "Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them."

Matt 13;15 "For this people's heart is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes they have closed; "

By golly, you are right............it does go a long way to explaining the faulty theology of the Jehovah Witnesses.......thanks!

 

[iamsoandso]

the thief on the cross,he died for his own sins(was a thief),but the same day was in paradise with Christ. 3 days and 3 nights later Christ became the first born of the dead(resurrected from the grave),the thief remained in paradise that is he not being beheaded(slain) for his testimony cannot precede those who died for their testimony(rev.20;4),,,so the thief in paradise is not in the resurrected body,but will be resurrected yet he still exist in paradise.

a father that has a first born son shall give his whole house to the first born upon his death. and the inheritance then is under the power of the first born,but if the first born has a father who cannot die the first born cannot receive the inheritance. there is the son of the father that cannot die,and his will is to do the will of the father that forever is alive,that is as we know(2nd peter 3;12) the father of the first born is not comprised of the elements lest he on this day die.

from the dust of the ground a man is made and the breath of life is breathed into it. the elements of the earth are they the spirit of the man or the breath of god that quickened it unto life? there is the breath of life and the breath of life is "in the blood",the blood is not in the breath of life. here is the puzzle that the son of god was born of the flesh and the breath of life is in his blood. at the cross the blood was spilled and the breath then perished,or did the breath then remain? we see it i think being flesh,as to discern it as flesh,that is the body prepared for the cross slept yet the spirit was in paradise and then resurrected again in the same flesh.

 

[john832]

the thief on the cross,he died for his own sins(was a thief),but the same day was in paradise with Christ. 3 days and 3 nights later Christ became the first born of the dead(resurrected from the grave),the thief remained in paradise that is he not being beheaded(slain) for his testimony cannot precede those who died for their testimony(rev.20;4),,,so the thief in paradise is not in the resurrected body,but will be resurrected yet he still exist in paradise.


a father that has a first born son shall give his whole house to the first born upon his death. and the inheritance then is under the power of the first born,but if the first born has a father who cannot die the first born cannot receive the inheritance. there is the son of the father that cannot die,and his will is to do the will of the father that forever is alive,that is as we know(2nd peter 3;12) the father of the first born is not comprised of the elements lest he on this day die.

from the dust of the ground a man is made and the breath of life is breathed into it. the elements of the earth are they the spirit of the man or the breath of god that quickened it unto life? there is the breath of life and the breath of life is "in the blood",the blood is not in the breath of life. here is the puzzle that the son of god was born of the flesh and the breath of life is in his blood. at the cross the blood was spilled and the breath then perished,or did the breath then remain? we see it i think being flesh,as to discern it as flesh,that is the body prepared for the cross slept yet the spirit was in paradise and then resurrected again in the same flesh.

Move the comma to after "To day" and you get the correct understanding of Luke 23:43.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I did not read all the posts. As usual, I am a day late and dollar short.

So will just give my two cents (for what it is worth)

Hypostatic union states God became flesh. The two (spirit and body) became one.

As for deaths, there are two deaths.

Physical death, the separation of the soul from the body. And the body returning to dust.
Spiritual death, Separation of man from God. A barrier is placed between them, and that barrier is sin.

Adam was told the minute he sinned, he would die. He did. He died spiritually, Physical death was just a byproduct of sin. It was never supposed to be this way.

we are told, even though we are still "Alive" physically. we are at the same time "dead" that is spiritul death.

Christ died two deaths.

His diety dies spiritually, as God turned his back on Christ, "my God My God why have though forsaken (departed) from me"

He then died physically. so he could be the first fruits of our salvation and resurrection.

Physical death did not pay for our sin, Spiritual death did.

 

[notuptome]

Read carefully Jesus bowed His head and commanded His Spirit to leave His body. Death did not overtake Christ on the cross. His body because He had no sin could not die until He left it. No man took the Lords life from Him He gave it up by His determinate will that the debt of our sin might be paid.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[oldhermit]

Move the comma to after "To day" and you get the correct understanding of Luke 23:43.

You will be very hard pressed to find a Greek text that will support placing the comma after "today". This is an old Watchtower argument that simply will not hold water. It is simply grammatically incorrect. If you have to defy rules of grammar to support your theology then perhaps you need to reconsider your theology.

 

[iamsoandso]

Move the comma to after "To day" and you get the correct understanding of Luke 23:43.

if we move the comma,then the thief is already resurrected from the dead 3 days prior to the first born of the dead. you are considering "the kingdom of god",verses the "first Resurrection",but the thief was not crucified beside Christ because of his testimony he was crucified because he was a thief and so he cannot precede the "first Resurrection"

 

[NWL]

To those that says Jesus didn't die for the factor Jesus is God and God cannot die you need to stop making up false beliefs just to support your doctrine, nowhere in scripture does it says Jesus is God and a man at the same time, nowhere does scripture Jesus spirit went to the Father at his death, the Bible is plain about what happened to Jesus at his death, plain and simply, Jesus died and his Father rose him up!

(1 Corinthians 15:3, 4) "...Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; 4 and that he was buried, yes, that he has been raised up the third day according to the Scriptures..."

(Acts 5:30) The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom YOU slew, hanging him upon a stake.

To those that say Jesus rose himself from the dead (which is a contradictory statement) your not using your reasoning skills well enough. Jesus used an expression at Luke 8:48, Jesus is quoted as saying to a woman: “Your faith has made you well.” Did she heal herself? No; it was power from God through Christ that healed her because she had faith. (Luke 8:46; Acts 10:38) Likewise, by his perfect obedience as a human, Jesus provided the moral basis for the Father to raise him from the dead. Because of Jesus’ faithful course of life, it could properly be said that Jesus himself was responsible for his resurrection the same way it could be said the woman made herself well.


I could challenge anyone here to show me a verse that reads along the lines that, 1)Jesus body remained on Earth whilst his spirit went to heaven at his death 2)Jesus didn't die 3) Jesus Human side died whilst his God side lived on. These are all things people keep saying yet there isn't any scriptural grounds to promote such things

The fact of the matter is three days after Jesus died when he was resurrected, supposedly with his body and spirit, Jesus himself said “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father (John 20:17) He didn't say half of me or a part of me, but simply that he had not been.

 

[jimmydiggs]

It's unfortunate that there is a rejection of the hypostatic union.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To those that says Jesus didn't die for the factor Jesus is God and God cannot die you need to stop making up false beliefs just to support your doctrine, nowhere in scripture does it says Jesus is God and a man at the same time, nowhere does scripture Jesus spirit went to the Father at his death, the Bible is plain about what happened to Jesus at his death, plain and simply, Jesus died and his Father rose him up!

(1 Corinthians 15:3, 4) "...Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; 4 and that he was buried, yes, that he has been raised up the third day according to the Scriptures..."

(Acts 5:30) The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom YOU slew, hanging him upon a stake.

To those that say Jesus rose himself from the dead (which is a contradictory statement) your not using your reasoning skills well enough. Jesus used an expression at Luke 8:48, Jesus is quoted as saying to a woman: “Your faith has made you well.” Did she heal herself? No; it was power from God through Christ that healed her because she had faith. (Luke 8:46; Acts 10:38) Likewise, by his perfect obedience as a human, Jesus provided the moral basis for the Father to raise him from the dead. Because of Jesus’ faithful course of life, it could properly be said that Jesus himself was responsible for his resurrection the same way it could be said the woman made herself well.


I could challenge anyone here to show me a verse that reads along the lines that, 1)Jesus body remained on Earth whilst his spirit went to heaven at his death 2)Jesus didn't die 3) Jesus Human side died whilst his God side lived on. These are all things people keep saying yet there isn't any scriptural grounds to promote such things

The fact of the matter is three days after Jesus died when he was resurrected, supposedly with his body and spirit, Jesus himself said “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father (John 20:17) He didn't say half of me or a part of me, but simply that he had not been.

you have a major problem.

According to your belief. Jesus lied.

Jesus stated, before abraham was (before abraham was even born) I Existed.

How can jesus exist before abraham was born if jesus was not created until he was born of mary.

 

[NWL]

You will be very hard pressed to find a Greek text that will support placing the comma after "today". This is an old Watchtower argument that simply will not hold water. It is simply grammatically incorrect. If you have to defy rules of grammar to support your theology then perhaps you need to reconsider your theology.

Oldhermit are you seriously saying that the two below verse are in harmony with each other? Are you willing to admit that Jesus lied to the man on the stake?

(Luke 23:43) "...And he said to him: “Truly I tell you, today You will be with me in Paradise...”

(Matthew 12:40) "...For just as Jo′nah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights..."

(John 20:17) "...[three days later after his resurrection] Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father...’”

 

[iamsoandso]

To those that says Jesus didn't die for the factor Jesus is God and God cannot die you need to stop making up false beliefs just to support your doctrine, nowhere in scripture does it says Jesus is God and a man at the same time, nowhere does scripture Jesus spirit went to the Father at his death, the Bible is plain about what happened to Jesus at his death, plain and simply, Jesus died and his Father rose him up!

(1 Corinthians 15:3, 4) "...Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; 4 and that he was buried, yes, that he has been raised up the third day according to the Scriptures..."

(Acts 5:30) The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom YOU slew, hanging him upon a stake.

To those that say Jesus rose himself from the dead (which is a contradictory statement) your not using your reasoning skills well enough. Jesus used an expression at Luke 8:48, Jesus is quoted as saying to a woman: “Your faith has made you well.” Did she heal herself? No; it was power from God through Christ that healed her because she had faith. (Luke 8:46; Acts 10:38) Likewise, by his perfect obedience as a human, Jesus provided the moral basis for the Father to raise him from the dead. Because of Jesus’ faithful course of life, it could properly be said that Jesus himself was responsible for his resurrection the same way it could be said the woman made herself well.


I could challenge anyone here to show me a verse that reads along the lines that, 1)Jesus body remained on Earth whilst his spirit went to heaven at his death 2)Jesus didn't die 3) Jesus Human side died whilst his God side lived on. These are all things people keep saying yet there isn't any scriptural grounds to promote such things

The fact of the matter is three days after Jesus died when he was resurrected, supposedly with his body and spirit, Jesus himself said “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father (John 20:17) He didn't say half of me or a part of me, but simply that he had not been.

compare john 1;1,with john 1;14,,,,,

 

[NWL]

you have a major problem.

According to your belief. Jesus lied.

Jesus stated, before abraham was (before abraham was even born) I Existed.

How can jesus exist before abraham was born if jesus was not created until he was born of mary.

No such problem exists, Jesus was the firstborn of all creation, the first thing created by the Father, therefore he was alive thousands if not billions of years before Abraham. I do not believe Jesus starting point in life was at his birth with Mary, this is neither the belief of JW's.

(Colossians 1:15) "...He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation..."

 

[Richie_2uk]

Why are people trying to find faults with God? if they spend more time in believing the bible, beliving in God, they will have no doubts, and search high and low for faults. What are you trying to gain? Why are you people trying to hold God accountable for errors, faults that God has, and hasn't and will never do?

 

[oldhermit]

Oldhermit are you seriously saying that the two below verse are in harmony with each other? Are you willing to admit that Jesus lied to the man on the stake?

(Luke 23:43) "...And he said to him: “Truly I tell you, today You will be with me in Paradise...”

(Matthew 12:40) "...For just as Jo′nah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights..."

(John 20:17) "...[three days later after his resurrection] Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father...’”

It is your theology that will not allow you to harmonize these three texts. You do not believe that man has a soul and that in death, the soul leaves the body and is assign to the world of the ᾅδην. Because you do not believe this, you have to find some other way to explain Luke 23:43 and the only way the JW's can think to defend their theology is to attack the syntax.

 

[NWL]

compare john 1;1,with john 1;14,,,,,

(John 1:1) "...In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..."


(John 1:14) "...So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth..."

If you could be so kind to now show me where it says the Word was both God and Flesh at the same time, as far as I can see the "theos became flesh" and thats it, and not "the theos became flesh and God at the same time" as you cliam it does.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

(John 1:1) "...In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..."


(John 1:14) "...So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth..."

If you could be so kind to now show me where it says the Word was both God and Flesh at the same time, as far as I can see the "theos became flesh" and thats it, and not "the theos became flesh and God at the same time" as you cliam it does.

It says the theos was God.

God entered flesh. It did not become God after it became flesh. it always was God. And All of them were in the beginning

 

[NWL]

It is your theology that will not allow you to harmonize these three texts. You do not believe that man has a soul and that in death, the soul leaves the body and is assign to the world of the ᾅδην. Because you do not believe this, you have to find some other way to explain Luke 23:43 and the only way the JW's can think to defend their theology is to attack the syntax.

Do not avoid the question, apparently my question has no merit. Answer me Oldhermit with your exegesis of the texts, did Jesus go to Heaven with man on the day of his death or three and forty days after his resurrection?

 

[cjordan38]

It was all a plan of GOD. When Adam sinned it was the plan. If you read Genisis you will see that the bible proves that Jesus was always there. GOD has never been to earth so the one walking in the garden talking to Adam was Jesus. If you hear the word you would see that in the beginning was the word, the word was with GOD, and the Word was god. Jesus is the Word. The Word is what speaks. Now as for the Sin Adam committed it was a plan. He was fullfilling the work of GOD. When Adam ate from the tree he had to be removed or he would have eaten from the tree of life and been trapped for life in sin. The fall of Adam was for the coming of Jesus. Before hand we had no spiritual connection with GOD. Only his presence was there. Adam walked and talked with GOD but didnt have the connection we as saints who are saved, sanctified, and filled with the Holy Ghost are. Jesus died naturally of the flesh.