So Then What?

GreenNnice · Dec 23, 2013

Yes, leave the abuse, but, don't give up on the marriage until God says to, wisebearded one. And, if I were to some up all my words this would be it.

God will never leave us nor forsake us. Don't give up on Him, just because you have left the abuse, God can, then, maybe, work on the abuser's heart. I don't believe in 'hopeless' for any human, abuser or anyone. I believe in 'hope,' and, Jesus is our hope, He does miracles all the time.

GreenNnice · Dec 23, 2013

Ugly said:

Where did I say this, ugly, to Cristen?

"What did you do to start it?"

I haven't, that I know of . So, think through things a bit more before posting things hurtful to me. The Lord leads, bro

And, I don't excuse the abuser's behavior, in fact, the very opposite, the abuser needs to realize that they are causing the person to be abused, and, prayer is always good, do it, as, the Lord leads your spirit through His in you. And, also, in this case, it's usually marriage counseling that the abuser should be led to.

LightningClap0002 · Dec 23, 2013

Ugly said:

As someone who has been through it. Who has been repeatedly attacked and blamed and had things thrown at him; been punched and slapped and cheated on, I can still say that there is ALWAYS a reason why someone is abusive. I'm not big on absolutes, but I'm pretty confident in saying the abuse is not the fault of the person being abused. It is almost always a result of either 1) a mental handicap or 2) a skeleton in their past. Many of these things can be worked through. And those that can't, God can heal. I'm not claiming that He does always, but I have seen it with my own two eyes and experienced it first hand. I have actually been active in helping some people work through these issues. It's amazing seeing God work in their hearts.

After seeing God's power, I can not just write off every abuser.

I will say (as I think we all agree without question) MissCris, whether God leads you to stay or to leave, you are a wonderful child of God. Don't ever forget that. Your value is in Christ, not your husband's words or opinions. And that value is so high that it is far greater than anything in this world; pain or happiness. I found great comfort in running to the Bible and seeing God's strength and how even though people didn't understand why they were in the situation they were, God's plan was there to let me, a great sinner, join with Him.

NodMyHeadLikeYeah · Dec 23, 2013

Cristen,

Some of the people on here are saying a lot of stupid things, that i know must be hurtful. I'm praying the Lord gives you the wisdom to weed out the wisdom from the slop.

-Holly.

1still_waters · Dec 23, 2013

Ok it looks like this thread went off the rails when someone asserted abusers and such can't change.
Instead of engaging in the yes they can, not they can't, pre-Christmas spat fest, and then arguing over who is fighting and who is insulting whom, how about just starting a new thread on the topic of can "fill in the blank" types of people be fixed?

As far as who is attacking whom, like always someone took a rather benign statement and just kinda ran with it.
No offense was meant by anyone, so instead of carrying that on, just drop it.

Thanks.

GreenNnice · Dec 23, 2013

I'm praying the Lord gives wisdom, too, holly, and, I understand your thinking of things as 'slop,' but, really read into what's been said and let me know if ANY of my words are saying that I am saying that mizcris started the abuse. I sure hope and pray not. I would NEVER say that kind of thing, nods, not now, not never. The abuse is the abuser's fault, I've been through verbal abuse from my dad, I KNOW, it's horrible stuff but God will give mizcris, like He did me, to get through this, someway, somehow, in the perfect, blessed way for her, just follow Him. Confront God and be like Jacob who would not quit wrestling with The Angel (who was God) until God gave Jacob what he wanted. Story below;

Jacob wasn't "good" by any means. If you look at Jacob before this wrestle, he has stolen the blessing that was Esau's birthright. (Genesis 27). He had several children with women he didn't love, and was certainly no great father to them. (Genesis 30-31). By the time he wrestled with this angel (or with God depending on the translation - I'm going to stick with God) in chapter 32 starting in verse 24, he'd pretty much shown that he was not a "good" man at all.

Yet, God chose him to the the father of the nation of Israel.

was God trying to kill Jacob? In the wrestling match, Jacob wrestles with God until daybreak (verse 24). Then God touches the hollow of Jacob's thigh and dislocates it, demonstrating that He could have easily defeated Jacob at any time. This was a lesson in humility - showing Jacob that compared to God, he was nothing.

Jacob was injured - he was disabled by a mere touch, to show that God is powerful and compared to God, he is nothing. Whether he was "seriously injured" depends on whether or not you consider a dislocated hip "seriously injured".

Yet, knowing full well that he was nothing, Jacob did something brave and remarkable. He refused to give up until God gave him a blessing. He continued to fight, but now it was for God, not against God.
I believe that the reason for the encounter was to ensure that Jacob, who became Israel afterward, had the correct motivation, heart, and attitude toward God. it was a lesson in humility, and Jacob responded by a show of faith and longing for God.

(excerpt from christianity.exchange.com)

Never give up on God and really ask God what is going on when something is going on of great magnitude in our life. Maybe, say something like, "God, I'm going this direction in life because I can't see you having me go any other way."

And, then don't quit walking that way in life until God shows you unmistakably that you are going the wrong direction. Just listen when He really speaks to you or you might find yourself in the belly of a whale

Just ask Jonah how true is that.

lav · Dec 23, 2013

just to be clear, i wasn't trying to back-tread in my last post, i was just trying to respectfully point out that i don't want to fight. . . and also get some of my perspective across... in an attempt at my words being more well received and heard, by all who have posted.

that being said, i also actually liked what Ugly had to say on the matter...

this is a difficult subject, in which i also believe is not wise to expound upon unless one has had enough life experience being the victim of abuse.

Christ is capable of everything, but He also has to have our freewill wanting and accepting, thirsting after yielding ourselves to his yoke to begin change in any one of our lives.

it is very, very, very rare that an abuser has a change of heart and decides to depart from his arrogant misogynistic ways.
there are many statistics, research, personal experiences and evidence to support this.

GreenNnice · Dec 23, 2013

a big hug to mizcris, and, sorry, that what I said hurt.

MissCris · Dec 23, 2013

GreenNnice said:

Thanks Green

Ugly · Dec 23, 2013

LightningClap0002 said:

I didn't say there wasn't a reason. I said the reason is Never the fault of the victim.
And God can change people.. if that person Wants to be changed. And in order to want to change you have to see a need to change. Which very few abusers ever do. For this reason i give active abusers very little grace. God doesn't forgive those who don't first confess their wrongness and need to change.

Jullianna · Dec 23, 2013

Cris, by all means protect yourself and your babies however you have to. With God's help, you do need to break this cycle.

Continuing to pray that God will guide/heal/protect/strengthen you and your children, give you the wisdom and courage to do what you need to do, that He will deal with the abuser's heart, and that you will fully come to know what an amazing woman you are.

Loveneverfails · Dec 23, 2013

I'm praying for you, MissCris. You and I don't interact all that much (we should! I'll work on that

), but I have seen how much you love God and love others. You are such a precious gift and blessing.

I agree with Jullianna ^

Pray fervently, and follow wherever the Lord leads. I pray for protection and blessings upon you, your family, and any other families that find themselves in similar situations.

I do think that in the short-term, separation would be better (and faster) than a divorce. As far as the long-run, continue to pray, and rest assured that many of us are joining with you in prayer.

Sometimes we have to do things that we HATE, because for one reason or another, it has become necessary. I kinda think that's how it is with divorce. Sometimes, for reasons that only God can judge, divorce may become necessary. God loves us, and He has several beautiful purposes for marriage. However, when those beautiful purposes are twisted and destroyed by sin, the result is pain and suffering by one or both parties (in the case of abusive relationships, I truly believe all the blame is on the abuser, not the victim). I believe the reason God hates divorce is because it means that His children are suffering in ways they were not meant to suffer.

Hugs and prayers for you, sister. <3

Oncefallen · Dec 23, 2013

Christen, my heart is broken for your family (you, your children, and your husband). For you and the kids because of the environment that you are living in, and for your husband because he is blind to the harm that he is causing to those who love him. Unfortunately most abusers grew up in similar situations so that is what they view as "normal" and so the dynamic perpetuates itself generation after generation.

I am a firm believer that those who abuse can and do change IF they truly want to (this is actually the hardest part) AND they get the help they need to make those changes. I have met countless men over the years who have been abusers of all types (mental, physical, sexual) that have (with God's and professional help) turned their lives around.

You have every right (and obligation) to do whatever is necessary to protect both yourself and your children so that they don't grow up in this environment and end up perpetuating it for yet another generation. Although according to the words of Christ the only reason for divorce (and remarriage) is for adultery, I see nothing in scripture prohibiting you from removing yourself and your children from the home in order to protect yourselves.

You need to seek out good christian counseling to help yourself heal (I recommend getting a hold of Focus on the Family here in the Springs, they have a huge database of christian counselors) and set boundaries for yourself. If your husband won't abide by those boundaries, then by all means get out.

If it comes to a separation, there are two primary probable outcomes:
A) Your husband will choose to move on and find another woman to abuse at which point he has committed adultery and you are free (biblically) to move on (after properly healing so that you don't end up in this situation again).

B) Your husband will decide to do the right thing and do what he needs to do to preserve his family, get the help he needs, and become the husband and father he should be.

Of course the second is the preferable outcome especially for your kids.

Our hearts go out to you. Know that you are in our prayers.

arwen83 · Dec 23, 2013

Praying for you during this time. For God to wrap His loving arms around you and your children in protection. That you all would feel His love at this moment more than ever.

Lord, I pray for Cristen and her children. Be with them, make your presence known to them in anyway. So that they have no doubt that you are there with them. That You cry when they cry, that You hurt when they hurt. Jesus, Your sheep need you. Help her. They cry out to You- we all do. With all the love and fellowship that is on CC, let it fall upon Cristen. Your word says, when two or three come together, I am there with them. On CC, we all in agreeance commission You to be there, be so very present within Cristen that she may feel You there. Give her wisdom, comfort and Love. You give good things to those who ask. Be true to Your Word. This isn't what You want for Christen and her children. You are a God of Love not wrath, not abuse. Be with Your child through this.

I pray this in Jesus's Name.

As we are told to by Jesus, we are to pray:

Our Father who art in Heaven,
Hallowed by Thy Name,
Thy Kingdom Come,
Thy Will be Done,
On Earth as it is in Heaven.

Give us this day our Daily Bread
Forgive Us our trespasses
As we forgive those who trespass against us

And lead us not into temptation
But deliver us from evil
For thine is the Kingdom, Power and Glory
Forever and ever

Amen.

MissCris · Dec 24, 2013

Gosh you people keep makin' me cry...

Here I thought I was pretty much alone, and I just keep getting these unexpected, wonderful words from y'all.

Thank you all.

(arwen, what you wrote was beautiful)

arwen83 · Dec 24, 2013

MissCris said:

Thank you, meant every word of it. Getting teary-eyed myself. I pray that God hear all of our prayers and laments on your behalf. That the Holy Spirit that is within all of us intercedes on your behalf. Keeping God true to His Word.

Yahshua · Dec 24, 2013

MissCris said:

Every divorce represents a death of the "new life" created from the union...that's why God hates it. Death is the antithesis of God (since God is life). But can people divorce? Yes.

Just because God hate divorce doesn't means it's not allowed, similarly the way death is contrary to God but he has righteously sentenced people to death. Divorce - like death - is a reality because of the weakness of this flesh. So divorce (like the judgment of death) must have a righteous reason. God himself divorced Israel for a righteous reason: her adultery.

Jeremiah 3:8

And I saw , when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away , and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

----

In Matthew 5:31-32 & Mark 10:2-9, Christ explains some reasons for divorce (fyi - I'm going to give the scriptural & Hebraic understanding of these things...but Church tradition may differ in its doctrines concerning divorce, so follow the Spirit in your decision):

1. "Adultery" (and "Evrah" matters, by implication) - Found in Leviticus 18:1-30 and 20:10-23, evrah matters translate into any vile sexual perversions (abominations also called "nakedness" in KJV) that defile the bed. Unnatural, forbidden sexual activities. Not everything is pure in the bedroom simply because two are married [the marriage bed doesn't nullify other laws of God]. This also extends to Adultery (which was what Christ was *specifically* addressing at the time). Divorce is allowed.

2."Hardness of Heart" - This translates into everything from constant fighting to overall strife as well as any abuse. Basically, any continuous acts of hate where there's no peace in the home. In Mark 10:2-9 Christ explains divorce is allowed for this reason but takes the opportunity to further emphasize what marriage is really all about: oneness, and what God has made "one" shouldn't be separated. He never nullifies what was written about it. Mutual divorce is allowed and *either* can initiate it. However, in *all* cases the husband had to present the divorce paper to the wife (called a "get" in that culture) signifying to other men that she was free to marry without it being considered adultery.

Without this paperwork (the equivalent being divorce papers in our time), the woman was still legally married to him and any subsequent relationship she enters into "causes" she - and the unsuspecting new man - to commit adultery. If the husband *refused* to give her the paper, her sin of adultery is his responsibility (Luke 17:1-2)...He's culpable to heaven, especially since traditionally all the sins of a household are passed to the legal head of the household.

Once divorce was final, both people were then single and free to marry again - even to each other. The only stipulation was that if she divorced a second time (or if the 2nd husband died) she couldn't go back to her 1st husband in that instance (Deut 24:1-4).

3. "Premeditated Remarriage" is DIVORCING IN ORDER TO MARRY ANOTHER (i.e. plotting to swap your spouse because you've found a better one) is FORBIDDEN. This is exactly what the Pharisees were doing. They even taught in their holy book (Talmud) that if a wife burns a meal or if you find a more beautiful woman, your wife can be divorced.

----

The whole point of these rules was that God didn't want Marriage to be "musical chairs of the flesh" (or something like that) like it is in this generation, because marriage is sacred and spiritual. So divorce is to be as serious and weighty a decision as marriage is, and only implemented for a righteous reason.

BTW - Priests may never marry a divorced woman (Leviticus 21:7).

Hope it helps.

Jullianna · Dec 24, 2013

You are NOT alone, Cristen. Know that.

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