King James Bible vs. Modern Translations (Honoring The Deity of Jesus Christ)
- Thread starter ChosenbyHim
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Misusing the "Variety of translations" quote
http://brandplucked.m.webs.com/site...le?url=http://brandplucked.webs.com/index.htm
The Translators of the KJB Support King James Onlyism
[video=youtube;oyyvXFJyR_A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyyvXFJyR_A&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]
This is a short video refuting the notion that the translators would be against those who beleive the KJB is the final authority. There purpose was to create a final authority,*'one principal good one, not to be justy excepted against'In other words, the final authority among bibles.So, it is KJB believers who defend what the translators intended to do and reject all other versions as attempts to undermine that authority
The King James Bible is the Absolute Standard. And it always will be.
What I was telling you was that if our Chinese brethren cannot find a Chinese Bible that is based on a translation from the English text of the King James Bible. Well then the next step or option would be to see if there are any Chinese Bibles that are at least based upon the very same manuscripts which the King James Bible is based upon (Byzantine, Stephanus, Textus Receptus).
I am still doing some research into comments made by the KJV Translators. I actually came across the ORIGINAL PREFACE of the 1611 KJV written by the Translators: King James Version Original Preface
I warn you that this is still in the English that was spoken in 1611. Parts of this are EXTREMELY hard to understand because English has CHANGED so much, since 1611. You will read a sentence or two, or even a whole paragraph without having a clue to what he is talking about. The spelling of LOTS words are way different than Modern English. Such as Sin back then was spelled Sinne. I even found one word that is so obsolete or so totally spelled differently that NO online dictionary could find such a word. THANK GOD FOR MODERN TRANSLATIONS. So if you want to wade through it, I promise it will feel like you are reading English with a LOT of foreign words mixed in. Their first 5 paragraphs, some very lengthy, are mixture of very boring formal courtesies to dignitaries, descriptions of the crimes, sins, and abuses of their age, fears of Church becoming poisoned by false doctrines, etc.
FINALLY, in paragraph 6 he lists the history of other Translations, apparently because these were going to be used in the translation of the KJV. I remind everyone, translating from an older translation of the same language or even another language, instead of using the original language manuscripts, is not a true TRANSLATION, it is more of a Paraphrase, such as the Living Bible is today. What is very interesting in that paragraph, is he mentions a Translation known as the Seventie because it was translated by 70 interpreters. AND he verifies that the modern KJV ONLY Zelots, were not the FIRST to try to falsely elevate the TRANSLATION itself to the status of being "INSPIRED BY GOD", and the KJV Translators DENOUNCED THAT PRACTICE. YES, GOD INSPIRED THE PROPHETS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE APOSTLES OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, but He DID NOT INSPIRE, Translators and Interpreters, although I DO BELIEVE that in answer to sincere fervent prayer, GOD did and does give Spiritual guidance to those who endeavor in the godly work of interpreting and translating ANY VALID TRANSLATION :
"Howbeit the Edition of the Seventie went away with the credit, and therefore not onely was placed in the midst by Origen (for the worth and excellencie thereof above the rest, as Epiphaniusgathereth) but also was used by the Greeke fathers for the ground and foundation of their Commentaries. Yea, Epiphanius above named doeth attribute so much unto it, that he holdeth the Authours thereof not onely for Interpreters, but also for Prophets in some respect: and Justinian the Emperour enjoyning the Jewes his subjects to use specially the Translation of the Seventie, rendreth this reason thereof, because they were as it were enlighted with propheticall grace. Yet for all that, as the Egyptians are said of the Prophet to bee men and not God, and their horses flesh and not spirit: so it is evident, (and Saint Jerome affirmeth as much) that the Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and sometimes to take from it; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sence thereof according to the trueth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greeke Translations of the old Testament."
A true Translation through born again, Spirit Filled, and Spirit Led translators and interpreters, can and will be a VERY GOOD or EVEN AN EXACT COPY of the TRANSLATION of the Word of GOD, as found written in the original language manuscripts. BUT THAT CERTAINLY IS NOT LIMITED TO THE KJV ONLY. However the practice of elevating THE TRANSLATION ITSELF to claiming that specific TRANSLATION was INSPIRED BY GOD, is wrong, because THAT DISTINCTION CAN ONLY BE CLAIMED BY THE COPIES ACTUALLY PENNED BY THE PROPHETS AND APOSTLES. Clearly the KJV Translators understood this, and JUST AS CLEARLY THEY DENOUNCED those who would try to elevate their favorite Translation to the status of "OUR Translation is INSPIRED, and your's IS NOT".
I warn you that this is still in the English that was spoken in 1611. Parts of this are EXTREMELY hard to understand because English has CHANGED so much, since 1611. You will read a sentence or two, or even a whole paragraph without having a clue to what he is talking about. The spelling of LOTS words are way different than Modern English. Such as Sin back then was spelled Sinne. I even found one word that is so obsolete or so totally spelled differently that NO online dictionary could find such a word. THANK GOD FOR MODERN TRANSLATIONS. So if you want to wade through it, I promise it will feel like you are reading English with a LOT of foreign words mixed in. Their first 5 paragraphs, some very lengthy, are mixture of very boring formal courtesies to dignitaries, descriptions of the crimes, sins, and abuses of their age, fears of Church becoming poisoned by false doctrines, etc.
FINALLY, in paragraph 6 he lists the history of other Translations, apparently because these were going to be used in the translation of the KJV. I remind everyone, translating from an older translation of the same language or even another language, instead of using the original language manuscripts, is not a true TRANSLATION, it is more of a Paraphrase, such as the Living Bible is today. What is very interesting in that paragraph, is he mentions a Translation known as the Seventie because it was translated by 70 interpreters. AND he verifies that the modern KJV ONLY Zelots, were not the FIRST to try to falsely elevate the TRANSLATION itself to the status of being "INSPIRED BY GOD", and the KJV Translators DENOUNCED THAT PRACTICE. YES, GOD INSPIRED THE PROPHETS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE APOSTLES OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, but He DID NOT INSPIRE, Translators and Interpreters, although I DO BELIEVE that in answer to sincere fervent prayer, GOD did and does give Spiritual guidance to those who endeavor in the godly work of interpreting and translating ANY VALID TRANSLATION :
"Howbeit the Edition of the Seventie went away with the credit, and therefore not onely was placed in the midst by Origen (for the worth and excellencie thereof above the rest, as Epiphaniusgathereth) but also was used by the Greeke fathers for the ground and foundation of their Commentaries. Yea, Epiphanius above named doeth attribute so much unto it, that he holdeth the Authours thereof not onely for Interpreters, but also for Prophets in some respect: and Justinian the Emperour enjoyning the Jewes his subjects to use specially the Translation of the Seventie, rendreth this reason thereof, because they were as it were enlighted with propheticall grace. Yet for all that, as the Egyptians are said of the Prophet to bee men and not God, and their horses flesh and not spirit: so it is evident, (and Saint Jerome affirmeth as much) that the Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and sometimes to take from it; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sence thereof according to the trueth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greeke Translations of the old Testament."
A true Translation through born again, Spirit Filled, and Spirit Led translators and interpreters, can and will be a VERY GOOD or EVEN AN EXACT COPY of the TRANSLATION of the Word of GOD, as found written in the original language manuscripts. BUT THAT CERTAINLY IS NOT LIMITED TO THE KJV ONLY. However the practice of elevating THE TRANSLATION ITSELF to claiming that specific TRANSLATION was INSPIRED BY GOD, is wrong, because THAT DISTINCTION CAN ONLY BE CLAIMED BY THE COPIES ACTUALLY PENNED BY THE PROPHETS AND APOSTLES. Clearly the KJV Translators understood this, and JUST AS CLEARLY THEY DENOUNCED those who would try to elevate their favorite Translation to the status of "OUR Translation is INSPIRED, and your's IS NOT".
Last edited:
I am still trying to read through all of this 1611 VERY OLD ENGLISH Original Preface of the KJV:
King James Version Original Preface
If I had to take a College course where the ENTIRE 500 page text book was written in 1611 English, before I even turned to page 2, I would throw in the white towel, and quit the course. I did however find another jewel, where the KJV Translators actually give us JUSTIFICATION to keep making modern translations IN THE LANGUAGE of the people that they can BEST UNDERSTAND:
Therefore blessed be they, and most honoured be their name, that breake the ice, and glueth onset upon that which helpeth forward to the saving of soules. Now what can bee more availeable thereto, then to deliever Gods booke unto Gods people in a tongue which they understand? Since of an hidden treasure, and of a fountaine that is sealed, there is no profit, as Ptolomee Philadelph wrote to the Rabbins or masters of the Jewes, as witnesseth Epiphanius: and as S. Augustine saith; A man had rather be with his dog then with a stranger (whose tongue is strange unto him.)
King James Version Original Preface
If I had to take a College course where the ENTIRE 500 page text book was written in 1611 English, before I even turned to page 2, I would throw in the white towel, and quit the course. I did however find another jewel, where the KJV Translators actually give us JUSTIFICATION to keep making modern translations IN THE LANGUAGE of the people that they can BEST UNDERSTAND:
Therefore blessed be they, and most honoured be their name, that breake the ice, and glueth onset upon that which helpeth forward to the saving of soules. Now what can bee more availeable thereto, then to deliever Gods booke unto Gods people in a tongue which they understand? Since of an hidden treasure, and of a fountaine that is sealed, there is no profit, as Ptolomee Philadelph wrote to the Rabbins or masters of the Jewes, as witnesseth Epiphanius: and as S. Augustine saith; A man had rather be with his dog then with a stranger (whose tongue is strange unto him.)
I am still trying to read through all of this 1611 VERY OLD ENGLISH Original Preface of the KJV:
King James Version Original Preface
AND I am still finding some gold and jewels of information:
Now to the later we answere; that wee doe not deny, nay wee affirme and avow, that the very meanest { poorest } translation of the Bible in English, set foorth by men of our profession (for wee have seene none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God.
. . .
No cause therefore why the word translated should bee denied to be the word, or forbidden to be currant, notwithstanding that some imperfections and blemishes may be noted in the setting foorth of it.
. . .
Yet before we end, we must answere a third cavill { argument? } and objection of theirs against us, for altering and amending our Translations [sic] so oft; wherein truely they deale hardly, and strangely with us. { Exactly what the KJV Only people do to us, who prefer modern translations. } For to whom ever was it imputed for a fault (by such as were wise) to goe over that which hee had done, and to amend it where he saw cause?
King James Version Original Preface
AND I am still finding some gold and jewels of information:
Now to the later we answere; that wee doe not deny, nay wee affirme and avow, that the very meanest { poorest } translation of the Bible in English, set foorth by men of our profession (for wee have seene none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God.
. . .
No cause therefore why the word translated should bee denied to be the word, or forbidden to be currant, notwithstanding that some imperfections and blemishes may be noted in the setting foorth of it.
. . .
Yet before we end, we must answere a third cavill { argument? } and objection of theirs against us, for altering and amending our Translations [sic] so oft; wherein truely they deale hardly, and strangely with us. { Exactly what the KJV Only people do to us, who prefer modern translations. } For to whom ever was it imputed for a fault (by such as were wise) to goe over that which hee had done, and to amend it where he saw cause?
T
The KJV bible, although a great translation, is just that a translation. There are errors just like in any other bible. People who say only the KJV bible are FOOLS because it has shown to have errors. I would personally say that it is a better translation as a whole, but I find a few translations to be very close if not the same level or accuracy. KJV NKJV NIV are good ones. There are more, I just dont remember the names of them lol. I do have a problem with some like the message bible or ones that drastically dumb down the language to make it "easier" to read.
I am still trying to read through all of this 1611 VERY OLD ENGLISH Original Preface of the KJV:
King James Version Original Preface
AND I am still finding some gold and jewels of information.
Look what I found in the fourth paragraph from the bottom:
Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, . . . but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones,
Is that not the KJV Translators admitting that their Translation is only a Paraphrase?
To that purpose there were many chosen, that were greater in other mens eyes then in their owne, and that sought the truth rather then their own praise.
Now, before I get accused of KJV bashing, I need to express that I do have a great respect for the KJV, it was my Bible for many years. My purpose for exposing this, is to make it clear that it is NOT the Translation that makes it - the WORD of GOD, it is what it means by what it says. THAT CAN BE FOUND in all Valid Translations by those who believe in the Holy Trinity. The Translation you should use is the one that best speaks to your Heart, the Word of GOD. For those who prefer the KJV, I am happy that it speaks to your heart, but you are wrong for putting down other versions that are co-equally the WORD OF GOD. Do I think they were horribly wrong for Not translating the entirety of the Bible from original language manuscripts? No, but that would have made this very good KJV even better. Yes, they trusted that the Translators of the older Transtlations had done their job properly with the aid of the Holy Spirit in answer to their prayers. Why is it SO WRONG to think the KJV is way better or even worse to think that it is the ONLY ENGLISH BIBLE THAT GOD APPROVES OF? In doing so, you are saying GOD answered the prayers of the KJV Translation Team, for Spiritual guidance, but GOD turned His Back on your Translation Team. EVERY TRANSLATION in every language, that was done by those who believe in the Holy Trinity and the rest of the CORE BELEIFS of mainline Christianity, received the SAME Spiritual guidance as the KJV Translators did. How do I know that? Have you lost sight of our Great Commission in arguing about whose Translation is approved by GOD?
Matthew 28:19-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
AND Because HIS WORD tells me that GOD DOES NOT CHANGE, and that GOD SHOWS NO FAVORITISM.
In closing I am happy to show you what the KJV Translators did absolutely RIGHT; but remember every Translation Team did the exact same thing RIGHT.
Yet for all that it cannot be dissembled, that partly to exercise and whet our wits, partly to weane the curious from loathing of them for their every-where-plainenesse, partly also to stirre up our devotion to crave the assistance of God's spirit by prayer, and lastly, that we might be forward to seeke ayd of our brethren by conference, and never scorne those that be not in all respects so complete as they should bee, being to seeke in many things our selves, it hath pleased God in his divine providence, heere and there to scatter wordes and sentences of that difficultie and doubtfulnesse, not in doctrinall points that concerne salvation, (for in such it hath beene vouched that the Scriptures are plaine)
King James Version Original Preface
AND I am still finding some gold and jewels of information.
Look what I found in the fourth paragraph from the bottom:
Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, . . . but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones,
Is that not the KJV Translators admitting that their Translation is only a Paraphrase?
To that purpose there were many chosen, that were greater in other mens eyes then in their owne, and that sought the truth rather then their own praise.
Now, before I get accused of KJV bashing, I need to express that I do have a great respect for the KJV, it was my Bible for many years. My purpose for exposing this, is to make it clear that it is NOT the Translation that makes it - the WORD of GOD, it is what it means by what it says. THAT CAN BE FOUND in all Valid Translations by those who believe in the Holy Trinity. The Translation you should use is the one that best speaks to your Heart, the Word of GOD. For those who prefer the KJV, I am happy that it speaks to your heart, but you are wrong for putting down other versions that are co-equally the WORD OF GOD. Do I think they were horribly wrong for Not translating the entirety of the Bible from original language manuscripts? No, but that would have made this very good KJV even better. Yes, they trusted that the Translators of the older Transtlations had done their job properly with the aid of the Holy Spirit in answer to their prayers. Why is it SO WRONG to think the KJV is way better or even worse to think that it is the ONLY ENGLISH BIBLE THAT GOD APPROVES OF? In doing so, you are saying GOD answered the prayers of the KJV Translation Team, for Spiritual guidance, but GOD turned His Back on your Translation Team. EVERY TRANSLATION in every language, that was done by those who believe in the Holy Trinity and the rest of the CORE BELEIFS of mainline Christianity, received the SAME Spiritual guidance as the KJV Translators did. How do I know that? Have you lost sight of our Great Commission in arguing about whose Translation is approved by GOD?
Matthew 28:19-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
AND Because HIS WORD tells me that GOD DOES NOT CHANGE, and that GOD SHOWS NO FAVORITISM.
In closing I am happy to show you what the KJV Translators did absolutely RIGHT; but remember every Translation Team did the exact same thing RIGHT.
Yet for all that it cannot be dissembled, that partly to exercise and whet our wits, partly to weane the curious from loathing of them for their every-where-plainenesse, partly also to stirre up our devotion to crave the assistance of God's spirit by prayer, and lastly, that we might be forward to seeke ayd of our brethren by conference, and never scorne those that be not in all respects so complete as they should bee, being to seeke in many things our selves, it hath pleased God in his divine providence, heere and there to scatter wordes and sentences of that difficultie and doubtfulnesse, not in doctrinall points that concerne salvation, (for in such it hath beene vouched that the Scriptures are plaine)
Be cautious of the Christians and keep yourself protected from things outside of the bible. The toughest time I have ever experienced was after I became a saved person. Yet, also at the same time, profound beauty in the peace I had with God.
When you trusted Christ you became crucified with Him, literally. His faith, is now your faith. You are eternally secure, by the faith and operation of God, you can never lose your salvation. These are the first things I was told by the person God worked through toward me.
Oak, we are family now, seated together in heavenly places in Christ, part of the household of God. Read Romans, then Ephesians, these are our foundational doctrines. I love 1 Cor 2. "This I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge", "being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it" Rm 8:1, 2 Cor 12:9, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor 5:14-21, Gal 2:16, 20
When you trusted Christ you became crucified with Him, literally. His faith, is now your faith. You are eternally secure, by the faith and operation of God, you can never lose your salvation. These are the first things I was told by the person God worked through toward me.
Oak, we are family now, seated together in heavenly places in Christ, part of the household of God. Read Romans, then Ephesians, these are our foundational doctrines. I love 1 Cor 2. "This I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge", "being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it" Rm 8:1, 2 Cor 12:9, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor 5:14-21, Gal 2:16, 20
If you are telling me the TRUTH, PRAISE THE LORD!
WELCOME TO THE FAMILY OF GOD!
The quicker you get grounded in the Word, the less likely the Devil with trip you up, or cause you to fall backwards.
It will take time to grow that new born spirit of yours, but you will find it an exciting journey in the Word of GOD.
May I suggest that you start with the Four Gospels. You will notice a slight difference in them, some stories are in all of them and some only one, etc. There is a reason for that.
John 21:25 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which, if they were written one by one, I suppose not even the world itself could contain the books that would be written.
We only have the highlights of the life of Jesus for one. Plus each of the GOSPEL writers was focusing on a different facet or aspect of the person and ministry of Jesus Christ.
Matthew wrote about the things that validated that Jesus is King the rightful heir to the Throne of David.
Mark wrote about the things that validated Jesus came as a Servant to mankind by dieing for their sins.
Luke wrote about the things that validated that Jesus was also very Human.
John wrote about the things that validated that Jesus was GOD in the flesh.
In other words it is if you had a four sided, cube shaped shed and painted each side a different color. Then if you took four blindfolded friends and placed them close to different side of that shed, and asked them to take their blindfolds off, and describe the shed; they would all describe the shape the same but they would all describe the color different.
When you get done with the Gospels, may I suggest that you go on to 1 John. Many think 1 John is hard to understand, but there is little secret that will make it come alive to you. John LOVED to use the Greek perfect tense verbs. The perfect tense verbs we do not have in English, and they imply a lifestyle of doing that verb. They not describe the perfection of our Christian walk but rather they describe the DIRECTION of our Christian walk. For example:
1 John 2:3 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
That "keep" is in the Perfect tense, but in English we only have Past, Present, and Future tenses.
So John is implying a lifestyle of continually striving to keep, and not the perfection of our Christian Walk.
And what if we fail, and fall into sin?
1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
And you guessed it that "confess" too is in the perfect tense. So it saying that our Christian Lifestyle is characterized by continually confessing each NEW sin as we discover it for what it is. Do we continually confessing OLD sins? NO, only if we happen to recommit them. Because it says HE has separated us from our sins, as far as the East is from the West. That means they are totally GONE, and totally Forgiven.
If you need Bible Software, that is TOTALLY FREE, I can highly recommend this WORDsearch Basic, and it has a link on their site to download over 200 Christian books and 7 bibles. The program has to be installed before you can dowload books and Bibles, and YES those in the FREE BOOKS list are really all FREE. No nag screens will pop up. Included in the Free Books list is the Holman's Christian Standard Bible, one of my favorites: https://www.wordsearchbible.com/basic Oh and they have online video links to teach you how to use the program. Once you have the program installed just click on Video Tutorials.
If you do not have a home Church, may I suggest you try a Community Bible Church (non-Denominational) or my second favorite Baptist.
OOPS, that Video Links is in the HELP file on the Menu Bar. If you have trouble figuring it out, let me know, I can talk you thru it on a private message. I am on Pacific time but since I am retired, I sleep in and stay up late, so even after midnight, I frequently am on the computer. I chuckle sometimes when I am posting a reply to those from Britain, because I know they are on their second cup of morning coffee when I am trying to unwind my brain so that I can go to sleep.
No, no more a wolf than a sheep. The new creature in Christ is not a sheep, nor the bride of Christ. That is not our doctrine, notice we are called the one new man, masculine, for a reason. The lost "sheep" are of the house of Israel, the bride, feminine, for a reason. There will be a wedding alright. I said what I said because Christians do not all serve the Lord. We are to mark Christians,
( Romans 16:17-18) Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
*(Philippians 3:17) Paul writes, "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as* ye have us for an ensample.
( Romans 16:17-18) Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
*(Philippians 3:17) Paul writes, "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as* ye have us for an ensample.
WOW, I would have never expected that answer, to be coming from you. I said that to wake you up, so that you would be more careful how you attack the credability of other denominations, especially when talking to a new Christian. But you say "more of a wolf" like it is something to be proud of; and you could have knocked me clean off my feet with that answer. Have you never heard of the expression "a wolf in sheep's clothing"? THAT is a FALSE BIBLE TEACHER, disquising him or herself as a teaching elder in the Church. So for you to say I am a wolf, is in BIBLE Terminology saying, "I am a False Teacher, and I will attack the Flock of GOD every chance I get."
Matthew 7:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Acts 20:29 (NKJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
And you are CERTAINLY wrong about how the CHURCH and the BIBLE uses the term "sheep" and "Bride of Christ".
John 10:26-28 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:15-16 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
THERE IS CHRIST REFERRING TO US CHURCH-AGE GENTILE CHRISTIANS AS HIS OTHER SHEEP. AND notice that Christ is stating that Jewish Believers that Messiah would come who died in that faith before HE Came, and Gentile Believers in the fact that JESUS CHRIST the Messiah did come, are to be ONE FOLD and we call that ONE FOLD, the CHURCH, the Congregation of GOD, or just the Children of GOD {Dt. 14:1 & John 1:12}. In fact as I am typing this, I am REALLY starting to like the title HIS ONE FOLD. That prophecy in verse 16 above was fulfilled the NIGHT of Peter's Dream when Peter went to the House of Cornelius. Acts 10:10-48
Galatians 3:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] There is neither Jew nor Greek {a reference to Gentile Believers}, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 5:23-25 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
John 3:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] "He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice. So this joy of mine has been made full.
Is not John here calling himself "the friend of the bridegroom" and calling "Jesus the Bridegroom"?
Who then is the Bride?
Luke 5:34-35 (NKJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] And He said to them, "Can you make the friends of the bridegroom fast while the bridegroom is with them?
[SUP]35 [/SUP] But the days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them; then they will fast in those days."
Here we have both John a JEW who believes Jesus is the Messiah; AND the Disciples the very foundation of the CHURCH, BOTH being called "friends of the BRIDEGROOM". Above we have Christ saying in John 10:15-16, that HE has two folds and the two shall become ONE. IS NOT THE UNION OF THOSE TWO FOLDS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST? The combined TOTAL of all TRUE BELIEVERS of all time then is the BRIDE of CHRIST. Whether they died Believing GOD would send the MESSIASH, or that once He came, that MESSIAH IS JESUS. Is that NOT ALL the exact same Faith of Abraham? How is it that SO MANY miss that last part of John 10:16 where JESUS CHRIST is saying HE has two folds, and the two will become ONE FOLD, and HE will be the shepherd of that ONE FOLD. Are not BOTH GROUPS that HE said will become ONE FOLD the called out ones whom HE calls out of the old dwelling place, Earth, to go with HIM to the NEW DWELLING PLACE that HE has built for HIS BRIDE, in HIS FATHER'S HOUSE?
End Times | Rapture & Jewish Wedding
Matthew 7:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Acts 20:29 (NKJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
And you are CERTAINLY wrong about how the CHURCH and the BIBLE uses the term "sheep" and "Bride of Christ".
John 10:26-28 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:15-16 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
THERE IS CHRIST REFERRING TO US CHURCH-AGE GENTILE CHRISTIANS AS HIS OTHER SHEEP. AND notice that Christ is stating that Jewish Believers that Messiah would come who died in that faith before HE Came, and Gentile Believers in the fact that JESUS CHRIST the Messiah did come, are to be ONE FOLD and we call that ONE FOLD, the CHURCH, the Congregation of GOD, or just the Children of GOD {Dt. 14:1 & John 1:12}. In fact as I am typing this, I am REALLY starting to like the title HIS ONE FOLD. That prophecy in verse 16 above was fulfilled the NIGHT of Peter's Dream when Peter went to the House of Cornelius. Acts 10:10-48
Galatians 3:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] There is neither Jew nor Greek {a reference to Gentile Believers}, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 5:23-25 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
John 3:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] "He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice. So this joy of mine has been made full.
Is not John here calling himself "the friend of the bridegroom" and calling "Jesus the Bridegroom"?
Who then is the Bride?
Luke 5:34-35 (NKJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] And He said to them, "Can you make the friends of the bridegroom fast while the bridegroom is with them?
[SUP]35 [/SUP] But the days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them; then they will fast in those days."
Here we have both John a JEW who believes Jesus is the Messiah; AND the Disciples the very foundation of the CHURCH, BOTH being called "friends of the BRIDEGROOM". Above we have Christ saying in John 10:15-16, that HE has two folds and the two shall become ONE. IS NOT THE UNION OF THOSE TWO FOLDS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST? The combined TOTAL of all TRUE BELIEVERS of all time then is the BRIDE of CHRIST. Whether they died Believing GOD would send the MESSIASH, or that once He came, that MESSIAH IS JESUS. Is that NOT ALL the exact same Faith of Abraham? How is it that SO MANY miss that last part of John 10:16 where JESUS CHRIST is saying HE has two folds, and the two will become ONE FOLD, and HE will be the shepherd of that ONE FOLD. Are not BOTH GROUPS that HE said will become ONE FOLD the called out ones whom HE calls out of the old dwelling place, Earth, to go with HIM to the NEW DWELLING PLACE that HE has built for HIS BRIDE, in HIS FATHER'S HOUSE?
End Times | Rapture & Jewish Wedding
Last edited: