This is for athiest to ask questions

[doseofreality]

Its one of those duel prophecies but I do see how you won't accept that answer. After studying the bible you can see that almost, if not all, prophecies are referring to 2 things, some even 3. I've never seen one doing 4 but I really wouldn't be surprised haha. Also the Israel one alone is quite fascinating. Alexander is never mentioned by name, but his nation is very relevant.

What also did it for me was Daniel 7 but I cannot give as good as an explanation as I'd like. It is very symbolic, but very clear what they mean for a history buff, which again I am not. If someone can explain Daniel 7 to him It'd be really helpful!

And ancient tyre was destroyed. People made a new Tyre, but the original tyre is under water.

oh i see you are right, much of the original island did go under water.

The argument you will get from skeptics regarding dual prophecies and such is that they then by definition are vague and can be applied to multiple future events subjectively. This is not evidence of a specific prediction of the future.
I think predictions about the Messiah tend to be the most specific right?

I will read Daniel 7, dont remember off top of my head but again if its vague then of course it may seem to predict many things looking back retroactively.

 

[doseofreality]

Also if you read revelations, a typical atheist would think it is a guy smoking a litttttlllee too much to handle, but after really studying it you see that they are symbols for things all throughout scripture. I don't think a man could write like that unless inspired! Again in the end there is no 100% proof, just a ton of evidence.

haha agreed, i do not think that only because I was raised with all this stuff and agree with you Revelation is consistent with rest of scripture as far as the symbols and prophetic themes.

 

[majorjones]

I admire that you all are debating these diehard heathens who are on satan's payroll, but barring a miracle of biblical proportions, NOTHING is going to turn thier black hearts towards "Him". "These", are the "last days" of man's rule on earth. "THE" antichrist is about to come on the scene, and we who are watching for Him will be called home, AMEN!

 

[doseofreality]

I admire that you all are debating these diehard heathens who are on satan's payroll, but barring a miracle of biblical proportions, NOTHING is going to turn thier black hearts towards "Him". "These", are the "last days" of man's rule on earth. "THE" antichrist is about to come on the scene, and we who are watching for Him will be called home, AMEN!

all that is needed is the Holy Spirit to regenerate my heart to open my eyes to the Truth, same as what turned your black heart toward Jesus correct?

Is it not christian doctrine than no argument from man can change one's heart to believe only the Holy Spirit?

As a christian who believes this, you would be better praying for me rather than saying im a lost cause and wish I go to Hell

 

[damombomb]

If you look at the signs of the times that were prophesied, you will see them coming to pass
Luke 21:25
25"There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.…
[h=3]2 Timothy 3[/h]King James Version (KJV)

3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

32"Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.…Matt24:33And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Matt24:30

 

[damombomb]

19'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. 20'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. 21'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.…Rev3:19-21

 

[Toska]

As a christian who believes this, you would be better praying for me rather than saying im a lost cause and wish I go to Hell

I have not been involved in this thread although I have been reading it. This statement did catch my attention, though. I, for one, do not want you to go to hell. I have been praying for you daily, I hope that does not offend you. I pray that your eyes will be opened to the truth and that you come back to Christ. I pray that your heart is filled with so much love for Him that you will never doubt Him again.

Loving you in the name of Christ.

 

[doseofreality]

I have not been involved in this thread although I have been reading it. This statement did catch my attention, though. I, for one, do not want you to go to hell. I have been praying for you daily, I hope that does not offend you. I pray that your eyes will be opened to the truth and that you come back to Christ. I pray that your heart is filled with so much love for Him that you will never doubt Him again.

Loving you in the name of Christ.

Not offended at all, you are only acting out of good will according to what you believe is true.
I hope that you will continue to question your beliefs to test what is true.

 

[Toska]

Not offended at all, you are only acting out of good will according to what you believe is true.
I hope that you will continue to question your beliefs to test what is true.

I am glad you were not offended, that was the last thing I wanted to do.

About questioning my beliefs, I spent the last 40+ years of my life questioning my beliefs. I did not become a follower of Christ until recently, at the age of 44. I have had personal experiences in my life that led me to where I am now. I know you do not want personal experience, you want concrete evidence. Just know that I did not make this decision lightly and it was the best thing I have ever done in my life.

 

[megaman125]

all that is needed is the Holy Spirit to regenerate my heart to open my eyes to the Truth, same as what turned your black heart toward Jesus correct?

Is it not christian doctrine than no argument from man can change one's heart to believe only the Holy Spirit?

As a christian who believes this, you would be better praying for me rather than saying im a lost cause and wish I go to Hell

doseofreality has a point here majorjones. If you feel you can't do anything else, pray for him. Pray that he will be convicted by the Holy Spirit and repent.

doseofreality, the only thing I'd add to what you said is that you need to take that step of repentance.

 

[tucksma]

oh i see you are right, much of the original island did go under water.

The argument you will get from skeptics regarding dual prophecies and such is that they then by definition are vague and can be applied to multiple future events subjectively. This is not evidence of a specific prediction of the future.
I think predictions about the Messiah tend to be the most specific right?

I will read Daniel 7, dont remember off top of my head but again if its vague then of course it may seem to predict many things looking back retroactively.

I need someone to explain it to you because I cannot do it well enough or know the name of all of the countries it talks about but basically it predicts the major powers of the world in order and then talks about the one we are in now where there is no major empire. It is symbolic, but I wouldn't call in vague.

I do see what you are saying with symbols and vagueness being not concrete, but when you have tons of "vague" prophecies being fulfilled, it does count for something.

 

[tucksma]

I admire that you all are debating these diehard heathens who are on satan's payroll, but barring a miracle of biblical proportions, NOTHING is going to turn thier black hearts towards "Him". "These", are the "last days" of man's rule on earth. "THE" antichrist is about to come on the scene, and we who are watching for Him will be called home, AMEN!

Again it'd be different if he came on here and attacked our faith. He didn't he simply wishes for us to show him the truth. If he accepts it or not thats on him, but if we don't try then it's on us!

If you don't try to save someone, their damnation is counted against you. If you try and they deny, it is counted on them.

 

[doseofreality]

doseofreality has a point here majorjones. If you feel you can't do anything else, pray for him. Pray that he will be convicted by the Holy Spirit and repent.

doseofreality, the only thing I'd add to what you said is that you need to take that step of repentance.

If I am convicted by the Holy Spirit, will I not then repent?
Sorry I was more of the calvinist persuasion as a believer so if one is saved then repentance naturally follows.

My conundrum is I have already gone through that, conviction, repentance, sanctification, etc. I simply question the reality of anything beyond what there is good evidence for. I live not much different now as when I was a christian, I could pray if I wanted to. I still get chills if I hear a worship song, the experiences do not go away, the belief that it is real is gone. I just think that its much more likely that "God" who we pray to and worship is an abstract concept in our heads.

Now back to my point that if before the Holy spirit convicted me then has God taken away my belief? or am I in sin as a backslidden christian? or was I never saved to begin with?

If the Bible is Word of God, then one of these must apply to me.
The first is not really backed by scripture.
The third may be true but then that means people cant trust their experiences as assurances of salvation.
The most probable is 2nd scenario, yet it has been a couple years now and no convictions or guilt about my disbelief.

Anyway my personal salvation was brought up so this is my reply to that.

 

[tucksma]

If I am convicted by the Holy Spirit, will I not then repent?
Sorry I was more of the calvinist persuasion as a believer so if one is saved then repentance naturally follows.

My conundrum is I have already gone through that, conviction, repentance, sanctification, etc. I simply question the reality of anything beyond what there is good evidence for. I live not much different now as when I was a christian, I could pray if I wanted to. I still get chills if I hear a worship song, the experiences do not go away, the belief that it is real is gone. I just think that its much more likely that "God" who we pray to and worship is an abstract concept in our heads.

Now back to my point that if before the Holy spirit convicted me then has God taken away my belief? or am I in sin as a backslidden christian? or was I never saved to begin with?

If the Bible is Word of God, then one of these must apply to me.
The first is not really backed by scripture.
The third may be true but then that means people cant trust their experiences as assurances of salvation.
The most probable is 2nd scenario, yet it has been a couple years now and no convictions or guilt about my disbelief.

Anyway my personal salvation was brought up so this is my reply to that.

Right now if you continue you are the 1st seed of the parable of the sower. You aren't stuck to being the same seed though, but right now there is where you lay. That's the best way I can explain it.

 

[doseofreality]

Right now if you continue you are the 1st seed of the parable of the sower. You aren't stuck to being the same seed though, but right now there is where you lay. That's the best way I can explain it.

I failed to understand and the "evil one snatched away what was sown in my heart".
I am ok with that

 

[Crazylove]

[video=youtube;U0u3-2CGOMQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U0u3-2CGOMQ[/video]

 

[tucksma]

In that case it is on you now, I have tried to convince you, now it is up to you to believe or not to believe. I'm well aware that not everyone can be saved, but I will try for everyone I can. I will pray for you!

With love and the hope to see you in the kingdom!
Matt

 

[doseofreality]

[video=youtube;U0u3-2CGOMQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U0u3-2CGOMQ[/video]

This is my video response regarding ray comforts arguments in your video:
It is an interview ray has with a local atheist call-in tv show

Atheist Experience 702 20 Mar 11 Ray Comfort Interview - YouTube

disclaimer: this is only being showed as a response to the video and if deemed by moderator as inappropriate for this chat, I will delete

 

[megaman125]

If I am convicted by the Holy Spirit, will I not then repent?
Sorry I was more of the calvinist persuasion as a believer so if one is saved then repentance naturally follows.

My conundrum is I have already gone through that, conviction, repentance, sanctification, etc. I simply question the reality of anything beyond what there is good evidence for. I live not much different now as when I was a christian, I could pray if I wanted to. I still get chills if I hear a worship song, the experiences do not go away, the belief that it is real is gone. I just think that its much more likely that "God" who we pray to and worship is an abstract concept in our heads.

Now back to my point that if before the Holy spirit convicted me then has God taken away my belief? or am I in sin as a backslidden christian? or was I never saved to begin with?

If the Bible is Word of God, then one of these must apply to me.
The first is not really backed by scripture.
The third may be true but then that means people cant trust their experiences as assurances of salvation.
The most probable is 2nd scenario, yet it has been a couple years now and no convictions or guilt about my disbelief.

Anyway my personal salvation was brought up so this is my reply to that.

I'd also say this scenario is more like the second one. A couple years isn't really anything though, especially when you think about it from God's timeframe (Heck, in God's timeframe, Jesus is coming again "soon", but soon has still been 2000+ years, and it's still "soon" to God). In fact, I was an atheist for ~5 years, so I don't think a couple years is "too far gone" for you.

 

[TaylorTG]

*sigh* The atheists don't believe in the authority of the bible, so quoting verses from it to prove our points is unproductive. Use science and critical thinking skills instead.