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Paul is not offensive to me, and I believe the 4th is still relevant today. I believe that the Fall Feasts are shadows of Christ second coming yet to be fulfilled. I believe God in declaring what is holy and unholy, clean and unclean. I see Paul fighting off those that Christ had stern words to, those vipers, those hypocrites, those Pharisees, with their "oral law", adding to the word of God and putting their man made traditions and doctrines above God's commandments, making their religion of no effect. Now, if Paul were here today he would be arguing against those who have become lawless. First it was the one extreme of adding law, then came the other extreme of deleting law. There is a perfect balance between the two errors. It is Law and Grace. Law does not redeem you from the punishment of sin, only Grace does that. However, Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
What you want is to cut out the WORD OF GOD and many of us know better and what the consequences of that will be.
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
LOOK! This is Jesus teaching us/commanding us:
Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Luk 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, BLESSED are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
2Sa 22:31 As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.
Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Who is your brother? Is it not Judah? Christians are of the house of Israel, we are grafted in, and our brother is Judah.
1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
I realize many anti-semitic folks think they are in the dispensation of the church and apart from Israel. This is the basis of their prejudice.
When the WORD OF GOD is viewed from His perspective, His people, Israel, then one can see the relevance of the entire WORD OF GOD, both OT and NT. They blend perfectly together, when you take out the false idea that Christ deleted and added to the Word of God.
As long as modern day traditional mainstream Christians insist that God's Son came and changed the Torah, those "Jews" will never accept that Jesus, or that false gospel. SEE DEUTERONOMY 13 (Jews see and understand Deuteronomy 13 as well.)
What you want is to cut out the WORD OF GOD and many of us know better and what the consequences of that will be.
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
LOOK! This is Jesus teaching us/commanding us:
Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Luk 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, BLESSED are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
2Sa 22:31 As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.
Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Who is your brother? Is it not Judah? Christians are of the house of Israel, we are grafted in, and our brother is Judah.
1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
I realize many anti-semitic folks think they are in the dispensation of the church and apart from Israel. This is the basis of their prejudice.
When the WORD OF GOD is viewed from His perspective, His people, Israel, then one can see the relevance of the entire WORD OF GOD, both OT and NT. They blend perfectly together, when you take out the false idea that Christ deleted and added to the Word of God.
As long as modern day traditional mainstream Christians insist that God's Son came and changed the Torah, those "Jews" will never accept that Jesus, or that false gospel. SEE DEUTERONOMY 13 (Jews see and understand Deuteronomy 13 as well.)
L
To those who claim that those in Christ are still under the Law of Moses:
Do you believe we must abstain from pork? Do you believe we must observe the Holy Feasts? Do you believe we must not intermarry with Gentiles?
If you say no to these, how do you justify it?
Do you claim that only these portions were abolished?
I don't understand why this topic causes arguments, when the basis of Christ's sacrifice was to remove the penalty of Law from us, and to free us from it's burden. Not for lawlessness, but for a new Law, which is the Covenant of Christ.
Do you believe we must abstain from pork? Do you believe we must observe the Holy Feasts? Do you believe we must not intermarry with Gentiles?
If you say no to these, how do you justify it?
Do you claim that only these portions were abolished?
I don't understand why this topic causes arguments, when the basis of Christ's sacrifice was to remove the penalty of Law from us, and to free us from it's burden. Not for lawlessness, but for a new Law, which is the Covenant of Christ.
Me, too!! We were scattered, dispersed, without hope, divorced and doomed to hell, until Christ came and first preached He would restore the Kingdom (the kingdom had been divided and dispersed and scattered into all nations) and then He died for our sins, and made us pure, as a virgin for her Bridegroom.
L
What I love about this topic is that: Covenant Theology and Dispensationalism fully agree on the matter of the Law and the Christian.
The only disagreements happen on the fringes, where legalism and licence have crept in. As long as we keep from these extremes, we agree in the Lord.
The only disagreements happen on the fringes, where legalism and licence have crept in. As long as we keep from these extremes, we agree in the Lord.
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D
You have no proof that the NT writers never ate unclean food. That is a broad brush assumption based on you own misplaced fantasies. Peter was told 3 times by God to kill and eat unclean animals.(Acts 10:13) Jesus said it is not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out of him defiles him (Matt 15:11).
Not a single sentence in all the NT states we are to observe the Sabbath--not once. The early church did not meet on sabbath, they met on the Lord's day or Sunday. No can tell me to observe the sabbath or eat clean meat only according to Col. 2:16.
Galatians (not Galations) was written to counter the deception of the Judaizers who wanted the gentile converts to have to mutilate their foreskins. Strange how you will even state circumcision is to be obeyed when Paul spoke out against it! Christians are not commanded to follow the Mosaic law, but we are commanded to obey Christs law and yes that is the moral law. (See my previous post on that)
I never stated my definition of grace. Grace is undeserved favor/forgiveness to those who believe in Jesus so that they can be saved. It is a free gift from God to those who ask for it. As I mentioned I have a post on how Christians are to obey the laws and commandments of Christ. You claim I am for lawlessness with out a shred of evidence.
Not a single sentence in all the NT states we are to observe the Sabbath--not once. The early church did not meet on sabbath, they met on the Lord's day or Sunday. No can tell me to observe the sabbath or eat clean meat only according to Col. 2:16.
Galatians (not Galations) was written to counter the deception of the Judaizers who wanted the gentile converts to have to mutilate their foreskins. Strange how you will even state circumcision is to be obeyed when Paul spoke out against it! Christians are not commanded to follow the Mosaic law, but we are commanded to obey Christs law and yes that is the moral law. (See my previous post on that)
I never stated my definition of grace. Grace is undeserved favor/forgiveness to those who believe in Jesus so that they can be saved. It is a free gift from God to those who ask for it. As I mentioned I have a post on how Christians are to obey the laws and commandments of Christ. You claim I am for lawlessness with out a shred of evidence.
D
Yes the Mosaic laws do remain but they have been "fulfilled" thru Christ.
This means that the law of circumcision was about cutting the foreskin but now it does remain but we are circumcised in the heart. It is error to claim to be a Christian and be under the Old covenant as it was before the death of Christ.
This means that the law of circumcision was about cutting the foreskin but now it does remain but we are circumcised in the heart. It is error to claim to be a Christian and be under the Old covenant as it was before the death of Christ.
Just curious as to where you get off telling everyone your personal interpretation of the Bible?
I am a woman and I probably know the Bible better than you and your petty legalism ever will.
So sad when a newbie comes on here and starts bossing people around.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28
If you look at some of the threads on this issue, you will find there are a lot of women here who are able to answer with the Bible to your obvious arrogant misogyny.
Look up the culture and history of Ephesus and Corinth, and you may get a clue. Then again, you are so caught in your own idolatry of self and men, you probably wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face!
I am a woman and I probably know the Bible better than you and your petty legalism ever will.
So sad when a newbie comes on here and starts bossing people around.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28
If you look at some of the threads on this issue, you will find there are a lot of women here who are able to answer with the Bible to your obvious arrogant misogyny.
Look up the culture and history of Ephesus and Corinth, and you may get a clue. Then again, you are so caught in your own idolatry of self and men, you probably wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face!
So basically, the differences we have is that one says that God wants us to not listen to written law, the other says that all the written law stands for it all expresses love.
All agree that God does not demand we adjust our eating, etc. to obey. Some on one side say that we can choose to do that as long as we know our choice is Godly, and not for salvation. Some say that obedience of any of that is sinful.
It all comes down to what Paul meant by the law of Moses. Some say that Paul meant that for all law, and some say Paul was talking about ceremonial law as not being required.
If everyone would believe Christ when he said law stands always, and believed that was the final answer to all arguments, we would all agree.
Mat 5:17-19 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. (18) For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. (19) Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
All agree that God does not demand we adjust our eating, etc. to obey. Some on one side say that we can choose to do that as long as we know our choice is Godly, and not for salvation. Some say that obedience of any of that is sinful.
It all comes down to what Paul meant by the law of Moses. Some say that Paul meant that for all law, and some say Paul was talking about ceremonial law as not being required.
If everyone would believe Christ when he said law stands always, and believed that was the final answer to all arguments, we would all agree.
Mat 5:17-19 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. (18) For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. (19) Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
danschance, scripture, old and new, proves that Jesus did not: eat swine's flesh; purchase victuals and wares on the sabbath; "putteth out his money to usury;" tell us that Dueteronomy is not profitable for intstruction in righteousness; tell us that Psalm 1 and Psalm 119 are no longer profitable for doctrine; tell us that he came to abrogate the commandments of the law; tell us that the three sins described in Ezra and Nehemiah, (i.e., sabbath desecration, interracial marriage, usury) are now okay. He did not, why do you?