Attack of the Judaizers

[Elin]

So come straight out and tell us Elin, do you have to obey or not obey and
what is it that you have to obey or not obey?

We obey all the NT commands,

among which are Jesus' commands of Mt 22:37-39, on which two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets (Mt 22:40),

and among which are the NT commands in Gal 5:14, 6; Ro 13:8-10; Jas 2:8, etc.

Because the NT commands cover all that God commands (Mt 22:40), there are no other commands of God
for the new covenant order (Heb 9:10).

Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[john832]

You can't keep the Law. You only have one Choice, one Decision.

You must appeal to His Mercy and Grace and Provision. That is what faith does. That is the difference between the publican and the pharisee.

I haven't made it to the point where I can say "Thanks for the boost Lord, now I can be perfectly obedient". I'm constantly like the publican where I have to say "Sorry Lord, please have mercy on me, a poor sinner".

Only the Perfectly Spiritual Man can be obedient to the Law. So your answer is, sure you should keep the Law. But its not kept by your power. Its kept by faith in His Work that He's already done. That is a mystery that you have to search for yourself.

We will overcome by the Blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony. By what He has already Provided for us and our witness of what He has done in our lives.

Obedience is a gift. Salvation is a gift. His Presence is a gift. We don't earn it. We can't earn it. We just have to be bold enough to ask for it.

People try to tell you what the gospel is. Its good news.

But if righteousness or salvation were by the Law, or our own obedience, then there would have been no reason for the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. We would just pull ourselves out of the Pit, we would be perfect according to the Law and we would demand God let us in through the gates of Heaven because of our own righteousness. There is one way and our obedience to the law doesn't cut it.

So because one cannot keep the Law perfectly, one should not even try? One should go around profaning the name of God at every opportunity? Killing indiscrimately? Whoring around? Lying and stealing? Help me out here, explain why this is or is not so.

 

[Elin]

Well then, explain to us simple-minded folk what it is that faith will cause you to obey.

All the commands of the NT, which cover all the commands of God for the new covenant order
(Heb 9:10).

It's not complicated.

 

[Hizikyah]

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

 

[Hizikyah]

We obey all the NT commands,

among which are Jesus' commands of Mt 22:37-39, on which two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets (Mt 22:40),

and among which are the NT commands in Gal 5:14, 6; Ro 13:8-10; Jas 2:8, etc.

Because the NT commands cover all that God commands (Mt 22:40), there are no other commands of God
for the new covenant order (Heb 9:10).

Why is this so hard to understand?

If there has been a change in the Law of Yahweh that would make Yahshua a liar:

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Yahshua is NOT a liar, the priestly Laws are still in effect, carried out by Yahshua Himself, sacrificial Law has had its true purpose completed, but if it were done away how would you and I being born 2000 years later have recieved this Sacrifice? If it were done away there would no longer be a Law on the books to make blood be able to cleanse sin.

They will never teach that at the olde kirk.

 

[LT]

So because one cannot keep the Law perfectly, one should not even try? One should go around profaning the name of God at every opportunity? Killing indiscrimately? Whoring around? Lying and stealing? Help me out here, explain why this is or is not so.

why are the only options: total enslavement to the law, and total lawlessness?

The 3rd option is Christ.

 

[Elin]

Now please explain how your misuse of Mat 22:40 cancels what Christ says in Mat 19:17-19?

My misuse. . .or your misunderstanding?

OK, I'm not following you.

How does what Christ says in Mt 22:40 "on these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." (Mt 22:40)

cancel what Christ says in Mt 19:17: "If you want to enter life, obey the (ten) commandments."

I need you to explain how the former cancels the latter.

 

[Hizikyah]

why are the only options: total enslavement to the law, and total lawlessness?

The 3rd option is Christ.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

 

[Elin]

OK, I am still waiting for you to explain why Christ did not mean what He said here...

Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Mat 19:18 He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, " 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER,' 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,' 'YOU SHALL NOT STEAL,' 'YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS,'
Mat 19:19 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER,' and, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' "

See post #1567, above, and here.

 

[Hizikyah]

See post #1567, above, and here.

Yahshua says these are the greatest Commandments, NOT THE ONLY! If that werent enough He clearly states all the Law hand on these 2.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your hneighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:

Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."

All as in even the ones he didn't list...

Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah.

And try breaking the 4th Commandment and still be loving Yahweh.

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."

 

[Elin]

Obey what and who?

That seems to be the sixty-four dollar question doesn't it? Who and what do we obey? Can you answer that?

I'll save Rocky the trouble.

Obey all the NT commands which are, and cover all (Mt 22:40), God's commands for the new covenant order (H3b 9:10).

 

[Elin]

We are saved by HIS LIFE...

Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Yes, and future tense.

That would be his unending life and heavenly ministry now,

where he applies the redemption he obtained in his earthly ministry,

by his interceding, sanctifying, transforming and preserving (keeping) us for glory,

the completion of our salvation, through his Spirit which he sends to believers (Jn 15:26).

 

[john832]

All the commands of the NT, which cover all the commands of God for the new covenant order
(Heb 9:10).

It's not complicated.

What about this?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[Elin]

LT my friend, we are not saved by His death, we are reconciled to the Father by His death. We are saved by His life...

Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled,
we shall be saved by His life.

We were reconciled to God by the death of his Son (Ro 5:10)

by forgiveness of our sin through faith by grace (Ro 3:25),

and saved from the wrath of God on our sin at the final judgment (Ro 5:9),

all past tense.

We shall be (future tense) saved in the present, and our future completion of salvation in glory,

by his unending life and his heavenly ministry now,

where his interceding, sanctifying, transforming and preserving (keeping) us for glory

is the applying of the redemption he purchased in his earthly ministry.

 

[just-me]

What about this?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

You do know that your outlook will never be accepted don't you? If you continue to argue, others can use this verse against you. Everybody arguing is doing it because there is a certain sense of enjoyment that is definitely carnal. If there was hope that it would eventually come to an agreement, then it would be a different story.

2 Timothy 3:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[JaumeJ]

Joh, come on, you know Jesus said this, so how will you ever convince some of these people? They refuse to understand what completing the torah, teachins that is, and the prophets, even after reading Psalm 22, they cannot see.

 

[Elin]

I joined up to strengthen my faith in Jesus Christ. I am a lonely person who needs love and care from others as much I as love and care for others, even though I fail every day to do this, as Jesus did. I explored this post and some others, and I do not understand them.
They have deeply troubled me and I feel very unsettled.

We are saved by the life Jesus lived under the Law on our behalf, first Israel His people then for all people. We are saved by His death. I read someone try to say we are not saved by death but by His life, by using Romans to do so. This is very troubling for me.

It should be troubling. . .because it is wrong.

See post #1574, above, and here, which addresses this error.

 

[Elin]

Never said that. I said that the Love of God is this...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Take it any way you wish, but that is what the Apostle John (you know, the one that Jesus loved) says.

Always leaving out what Jesus said in Mt 22:37-40 about how to keep them all in keeping two commandments.

 

[LT]

I think I finally understand! We are reconciled by His death (from the fall of Adam and our legal inheritance of death through that sin)
and are saved by His life (by regeneration and sanctification by His Spirit, and His current work interceding for us, and His future inheritance that we gain with Him).

Did I finally get it? If not, please go over it again.

 

[Keren]

So because one cannot keep the Law perfectly, one should not even try? One should go around profaning the name of God at every opportunity? Killing indiscrimately? Whoring around? Lying and stealing? Help me out here, explain why this is or is not so.

This is a terrible accusation to make against a person purchased by the Blood of Jesus!
That they are profaning His Name with joy and murdering every opportunity and lying and stealing! This is sinning against Jesus' people!