you're such a cynical grouse, johann. you're so clever, in a way, like, uhhh, who was that guy, composer, music fellow, 'STross' or , 'Streuce,' or, yeah, 'Strauss.' yeah, that guy
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Hmmm, yes, like gracey said, it's true. Woman was deceived. Man WILLFULLY disobeyed.
Apparently , to God, the deception is WORSE than the disobedience, in this 'order' regarding preaching and teaching in church.
Which gender, therefore, is worse to pastor a church,? I mean, which is the gender you want less pastoring your church, teaching your Sunday school classes?
There is an order to this whole preaching and teaching thing of 1 Timothy 2:11-12, and, alas!, wait none too far after this complementary set of verses because verses 13 and 14 complement 1 Tim. 2: 11-12
1 Tim. 2
11A woman[SUP]
a[/SUP] should learn in quietness and full submission.
12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[SUP]
b[/SUP] she must be quiet.
Now, the verses that speak of 'order.'
13For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
And, then, this verse makes it clear that women could be upset that they can't preach or teach men in church, so, Paul shows them a reward:
15But women[SUP]
c[/SUP] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Order. Order is everywhere. Afterall, without order, there is chaos. Period.
Order in creation. Man, first, woman, second, made. verse 13 makes sense, doesn't it? It speaks of 'order.'
Apparently, since God says so, through brother Paul's inspired, holy words mounted into the Good Book, it's the man, first, in the order, and, the woman, second, ala 1 Tim. 2:14, because she was deceived, NOT the man. And, further, verse 15 of 1 Tim, says she also will be saved by childbearing--God bless her merry little soul--for understading/accepting that she is SECOND in the order of who is to SPEAK in an authority role to others in the church.
Ok, that said, it's obvious that God is telling us that the man is first in the order of preaching and teaching to women in positions of authority in the church. Paul is spot-on consistent in telling women what they can do and that's past just childbearing, like it says in 1 Tim. 2, as in chapter that older women are to teach the younger women.
So, again, Paul is pretty clear of his way of saying things in these 1 Tim. 2 verses, and, apparently, as far as the order goes, women, who as much as Paul 'suffers' not to have them preach or teach men anything, ARE 2nd in the order.
No, green ! Child-bearing only !!
Really? What about all those women who can't bear children. as mistysevens said? God could use them for something else, right? What about, then, as a pastor of a church or a teacher in the church, preferably to women, but, that's not always going to be the case, right
Men will be, sometimes, in a Sunday school learning class, too, that a woman is teaching, because, well, because for a number of reasons, maybe, not enough males to teach, or, even, gasp!, there might not be a male pastor in the church suitable, or, uhh, qualifiied, might be a good choice word, to pastor the congregation. But......
......there is a woman, suitable, qualified, and, therefore, 'called' by God to pastor.
Ahh, now , I THINK, y'all are understanding just what I mean by the word, 'order,' that Paul so grace-fully uses in verses following 1 Tim. 2:11-12, so graciously uses, in concluding 1 Tim. 2 .
The bible is not one of confusion. If Paul doesn't speak of order here, then, 1 Tim. 2: 11-12 is a little more cut and dry, so to speak. Still, even with these verses of 13-14 in 1 Tim. 2 speaking of 'order,' I'm still believing that a woman who is not child-bearing and who is not cut out to be a wife of one husband, IS quite likely to be called by God to an act of different service, not to mention, 'calling.' One where she goes to seminary and, then, becomes a church leader/teacher, or, assistant pastor, or, even, the pastor of a church, with women AND MEN in it being preached and taught the bible, that's the Truth.
Amazing how so many can live with a clear conscience when God's generally, or, can we say, 'naturally,' done things with men as pastors of churches but, then, can we say, 'supernaturally,' has used a women in a church to pastor but they won't go to that church, or, will speak badly of it. And, they will, even, condemn it, and, certainly condemn her
They'll say something like, "That woman as a pastor is against the bible, there is no way God would EVER do something like that, I CAN read His mind." Sad, really.
And, really, can you read God's thoughts. Isaiah 55 and 1 Cor. 2 tell you, you cannot do that.
And, even if, let's just say that a woman is not to pastor but goes against God's will and does pastor a church, doesn't God have a funny way of working that out for His good?
Sure, He does. God will work out that church to understand how to be a blessing to Him in the midst of being doing things against His perfect will. So, why, either scenario, would you want to come on here and tell women that are pastors, or, thinking of being pastors, that they are doing things against God's will.
HEY, you let God figure that out, don't you play God. Instead, be supportive and let the Lord make His moves on that person who is not doing things for God's glory.
