Attack of the Judaizers

just-me · Jan 17, 2014

Is anyone learning anything other than this division is not God's will? What is the point of continued arguing?

2 Timothy 3:1-5 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Romans 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

just-me · Jan 17, 2014

Matthew 5:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

JaumeJ · Jan 17, 2014

When I see a professing brother doing anything to endanger his eternity, it is not just a choice to respond it is my due. Anytime anyone posts any notions that I believe may harm family members weak in the faith, again, it is my due to respond, and never to fatigue of doing what I believe is helpful in the sight of Yeshua. If I be wrong on any of these points, it is certain I will be informed as to the correct way right here in the forum.

I have learned a big chunk of my own understanding right here hammering out what is to be and what is to be discarded, and I have to thank all here for their contributions for bettering this, my understanding. Yahweh bless all in Yeshua, amen.

john832 · Jan 17, 2014

JaumeJ said:

When I see a professing brother doing anything to endanger his eternity, it is not just a choice to respond it is my due. Anytime anyone posts any notions that I believe may harm family members weak in the faith, again, it is my due to respond, and never to fatigue of doing what I believe is helpful in the sight of Yeshua. If I be wrong on any of these points, it is certain I will be informed as to the correct way right here in the forum.

I have learned a big chunk of my own understanding right here hammering out what is to be and what is to be discarded, and I have to thank all here for their contributions for bettering this, my understanding. Yahweh bless all in Yeshua, amen.

I can truthfully say I have learned much also by the give and take found here.

just-me · Jan 17, 2014

I'm happy that some have learned with this continuing argument of law versus grace, and faith versus works. I have learned only one thing by contributing to these things. There is a division that will always be propagated by our adversary, and my conclusion is that arguing enhances that division. The way I see these 4 things, is that in truth they are all in agreement. If the law is from God, it is certainly by grace that it was given. If it cannot be seen through spiritual eyes, it has no value. If faith is seen as an adversary against works the spiritual eyes are also closed. There is no division or thousands of posts necessary to define this simple spiritual truth. Maybe it's edifying to me know the cause of this unending schism.

2 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

The very name of this thread enhances division with the word "attack." Sorry, but I am angry with these types of controversies. If I am wrong, correct me, and I will go to sleep in peace.

Ephesians 4:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

JaumeJ · Jan 17, 2014

[B said:

.
This one describes me best I think. I am always angry, especially looking around at what man does in this world today. I do not think I sin about it though because I know best that I want the will of the Father, that is that no soul should perish. Thus, as mentioned, though I know myself with many it is a fruitless effort, if what I "argue" will help one out of the jaws of evil, I have done my due.

Least · Jan 17, 2014

I've often wondered if, when debate turns into serious arguments and anger it only serves to plant a person deeper in their and or our own doctrinal error. In trying to prove their take rather than listening to what the Bible actually says it tends to not only plant things that shouldn't be planted, but build things that shouldn't be built on each of our foundations.

I love discussing God's word. However, when anger, resentment and serious accusations come in. I'd rather step away from it. Especially if there is a bitterness to it.

JaumeJ · Jan 17, 2014

My anger is first and foremost what people touted as learned and scholarly have done to the Lord, Yeshua. Take it from there. This evil is world wide with the enemy in charge to the third heaven. When waging the war that is not a war as people know it rather with principalities and the like, there will always be some righteous wrath, however it is never good to sin, and I believe, at least I would like to think I have had a handle on that since the onset.

We must keep in mind the enemies soldiers will appear as lights of righteousness, and any others will simply litsten. I see no danger in attempting to help, because I truly believe I cannot harm anyone, but Yahweh may use me.

just-me · Jan 17, 2014

JaumeJ said:

Proverbs 3:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Strive not with a man without cause, if he have done thee no harm.

7378 properly, to toss, i.e. grapple; mostly figuratively, to wrangle, i.e. hold a controversy; (by implication) to defend:--adversary, chide, complain, contend, debate, X ever, X lay wait, plead, rebuke, strive, X thoroughly.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

3164. to war, i.e. (figuratively) to quarrel, dispute:--fight, strive.

just-me · Jan 17, 2014

JaumeJ said:

What I see in scripture, is there is a time of judging, or discerning when and how to act concerning controversy. It doesn't take very long to know who will continue to deny those things that are presented. Biblically, controversy isn't supposed to be long lasting as numerous threads have manifested.

Titus 3:9-11 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Romans 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Ignore really works well, and then those that want to learn will see the truth without being confused with controversial rhetoric.

BradC · Jan 17, 2014

john832 said:

He did not just speak to his disciples. Matt 6&7 are a continuation of Matt 5 and in Matt 7:28,29 the scriptures record this...

28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people (ochlos - a crowd and multitude of common people who gathered themselves together) were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Christ sited some of the old commandments that were 'said of them in OLD TIMES' that they had heard, Then He proceeded to gave them His word from his own mouth on the subject of those OLD TIME commandments. They were to heed what he had to say which was new as in (Mark 1:27) as one who had authority in (Mark 1:22). These things that Jesus spoke of were new to their ears. He gave them a new commandment in (John 13:34) to love one another as I have loved you. They had (Lev 19:18) but needed Christ to demonstrate how to love the unlovely and that was brand new. When you go to (2 John 1:6,7) you see these words 'from the beginning' and they refer not only to the beginning in the OT in (Lev 19:18) but the beginning of when Christ had come and demonstrated that love and gave the commandment in (John 13:34).

This is the old commandment as the word that you heard from the beginning when Christ came. Yes, we have that single reference in (Lev 19:18) as to loving thy neighbor as thyself which is the same in (Rom 13:9,10, Gal 5:14, James 2:8) and in (Matt 5:43) with specific instructions that were added by the Lord in relationship to your enemy and how you were to love your neighbour, but not because they loved you (V.45). This kind of love was foreign to them because they knew no other. This is the love of the NT and covenant through the blood of Christ that the NT believer is exercised by faith through the Holy Spirit. This new commandment is exercised by the Holy Spirit operating and shedding it in the heart to others (Rom 5:5). This love instead of exposing sin will cover a multitude of sin because sin was paid for and put away.

This love will operate as the royal law of love according to (1Cor 13, James 2:8) and this love works no ill toward his neighbor in (Rom 13:10) and is without hypocrisy in (Rom 12:9) and is knit together with others in the body (Col 2:2) that edifies itself in that love (Eph 4:16) and will be a love that goes beyond and passeth knowledge that we might be filled with the fulness of God (Eph 3:19).

Elin · Jan 17, 2014

Hizikyah said:

And of course, you aren't doing that now. . .

You are playing fast and loose with the holy word of God.

"Briefly" is not in the Greek.

The Ten Commandments are not "briefly" summed up,
Jesus said they are totally summed up, "On these two hang all the Law and the Prophets." (Mt 22:40)

Christ's two commands are the Ten Commandments, just as Jesus said (Mt 22:40).

It's not complicated. . .you just don't believe what Jesus said.

Nothing is avoided, your question is answered fully.

Your answer to my question is also the answer to your question.

You just don't believe what Jesus said.

That problem is above my pay grade.

Elin · Jan 17, 2014

just-me said:

I'm happy that some have learned with this continuing argument of law versus grace, and faith versus works. I have learned only one thing by contributing to these things. There is a division that will always be propagated by our adversary, and my conclusion is that arguing enhances that division. The way I see these 4 things, is that in truth they are all in agreement. If the law is from God, it is certainly by grace that it was given. If it cannot be seen through spiritual eyes, it has no value. If faith is seen as an adversary against works the spiritual eyes are also closed. There is no division or thousands of posts necessary to define this simple spiritual truth. Maybe it's edifying to me know the cause of this unending schism.

2 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

The very name of this thread enhances division with the word "attack." Sorry, but I am angry with these types of controversies. If I am wrong, correct me, and I will go to sleep in peace.

Ephesians 4:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

Paul wasn't exactly a happy camper with Judaizing either (Gal 2:14).

john832 · Jan 17, 2014

Elin said:

So, the statement that ALL the Law hangs on these two Commandments means they slipped and fell off? Or all of them supported by the Two Great Commandments? If I hang a picture on a wall, the picture is gone? Or is the wall supporting it?

My bet is ALL the Law and ALL the Prophets are safely supported by the Two Great Commandments...

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Elin · Jan 17, 2014

john832 said:

Previously asked and answered.

Please take care of your unfinished business before bringing other business to the table.

There are previously asked on the table which you have not yet answered, here, here and here.

john832 · Jan 17, 2014

Elin said:

I have answered them ad nauseum. The issue is you did not get the answer you wanted to hear. I suspect you have no answer for the ALL the Law hanging on the Two Great Commands. Again, that isn't what you want the answer to be.

phil112 · Jan 17, 2014

john832 said:

Elin, I think he is getting your jewelry box muddy.

Elin · Jan 17, 2014

john832 said:

I have answered them ad nauseum. The issue is you did not get the answer you wanted to hear.

Elin · Jan 17, 2014

phil112 said:

john832 said:

2 Corinthians 3:14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Elin, I think he is getting your jewelry box muddy.

Actually, Scripture says it is the mind that is muddy, not the jewelry box.

It's not complicated. . .it's just unbelief.

Elin · Jan 17, 2014

john832 said:

NOT. . .you have answered them the same way you have not answered them here.

Attack of the Judaizers

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