Can Mosaic Law commend you to God
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C
How do we love?
We do not hate, we love all humans
We do not kill, we save all humans
We do not commit adultery, we remain faithful to all humans
We do not steal, we give to all humans
We do not lie, we speak the truth to all humans
We are not proud, we are humble to all humans
Our obedience to God is how we express our love to God and to one other.
We love God because He first loved us. 1John 4:19
"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was hungred and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and you gave me drink: I was a stranger and you took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me : I was sick and ye visited me: I was in prison and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungred and fed thee? Or thirsty and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger and took thee in? Or naked , and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
Matthew 25:34-40
When we love one another we are loving God. And when we love our enemies then we are truly loving as God loves. Perfect love is denying yourself and sacrificing your life for the salvation of others, Jesus Christ is the perfect example of God's love. We are called to live as Jesus lived 1John 2:6, sacrificing our own lives for the reconciliation of others.
Our God is so awesome, loving us even while we deserve not his love, his grace is to all humanity. I am in awe of Him always.
May we all be found worthy to behold his glory. Amen.
We do not hate, we love all humans
We do not kill, we save all humans
We do not commit adultery, we remain faithful to all humans
We do not steal, we give to all humans
We do not lie, we speak the truth to all humans
We are not proud, we are humble to all humans
Our obedience to God is how we express our love to God and to one other.
We love God because He first loved us. 1John 4:19
"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was hungred and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and you gave me drink: I was a stranger and you took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me : I was sick and ye visited me: I was in prison and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungred and fed thee? Or thirsty and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger and took thee in? Or naked , and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
Matthew 25:34-40
When we love one another we are loving God. And when we love our enemies then we are truly loving as God loves. Perfect love is denying yourself and sacrificing your life for the salvation of others, Jesus Christ is the perfect example of God's love. We are called to live as Jesus lived 1John 2:6, sacrificing our own lives for the reconciliation of others.
Our God is so awesome, loving us even while we deserve not his love, his grace is to all humanity. I am in awe of Him always.
May we all be found worthy to behold his glory. Amen.
S
No you cannot.
No you won't.
The law is good if one uses it lawfully. I believe can be done by three things which is a pure heart, good conscience, and a sincere faith. There is a lot of people, wanting to be teachers of the law that do not even understand the law and it's purpose. That's why they end up making fruitless discussions, straying from the truth.
The law is not written for the righteous person, what are we then if by faith Christ is our righteousness? The law is made for the sinner, the ungodly, the profane, and whatever else that is contrary to sound teaching according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God!
The law arouses the sinful passions of our flesh. Not because it was bad, but because it pointed to our sin. But now that we are free from the law, having died to it, we serve in the newness of the Spirit and not the oldness of the letter.
Is the law bad? No! I wouldn't have known what sin is. It pointed to the sins of the sinner.
No you won't.
The law is good if one uses it lawfully. I believe can be done by three things which is a pure heart, good conscience, and a sincere faith. There is a lot of people, wanting to be teachers of the law that do not even understand the law and it's purpose. That's why they end up making fruitless discussions, straying from the truth.
The law is not written for the righteous person, what are we then if by faith Christ is our righteousness? The law is made for the sinner, the ungodly, the profane, and whatever else that is contrary to sound teaching according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God!
The law arouses the sinful passions of our flesh. Not because it was bad, but because it pointed to our sin. But now that we are free from the law, having died to it, we serve in the newness of the Spirit and not the oldness of the letter.
Is the law bad? No! I wouldn't have known what sin is. It pointed to the sins of the sinner.
C
But how to be obedient to that moral Law is the question. No amount of effect I put in to set myself straight with the Lord has ever worked. Decades of years have passed and still my flesh is unable to keep me on the right path. O' but that I should die to that effort of the flesh, but maybe my spirit will mind the things of the Spirit.
S
Exactly. You can meditate and stare at the law all you want, but you won't obey it. Yes you won't obey it in that manner. The law is physical, it cannot cure the rebellion inside you. The Spirit steps in and changes and renews your heart, so then why need the physical law anymore if the Spirit gives me the ability to change? Exactly, we are dead to the law.
D
It is a groundless straw man argument the Judaizers throw at people who disagree with their sinful and rebellious doctrines. It is snobbery, pride, hubris, groundless, juvenile, offensive and it is to punish us for not following in their tracks. I have tried to counter this lie many times and yet it is still promulgated over and over. It is an insult spoken to us but in the end it shows their ignorance and unwillingness to learn the truth. It is childish, as I have never even herd any Christian claim; Let's be lawless and get drunk, do drugs, have sex like rabbits and maybe even murder my my neighbor for kicks, cuz you know we are totally lawless!" How juvenile is that? When they claim we are lawless I doubt they even realize what they are saying or how it contradicts many passages in the NT.
C
Indeed. I have tried and tried, cried and cried, pleaded and pleaded with myself, only to see myself falling once again in my attempt to show God I honor His Law. I felt a fool in thinking that maybe perhaps one more attempt and God will see my effort and be pleased. But, never once did I know His pleasing smile.
I said, "Lord, you know I love You. Show me the way". Then there appeared before me a Man dressed as a Shepherd and said unto me, "Come and follow Me". I trusted Him and walked behind Him and as we walked, the Light became brighter. I said, "My Lord, I have not done anything to deserve this blessing". And He said, "Yes, you have. You have followed Me on My path".
The funny thing is, no amount of law keeping brought me any where close to where I stood with that Man who was dressed as a Shepherd. I just trusted Him in His leading and hearkened to Him as to where the path is, and there I was, in the Light. All because I trusted in Him.
I said, "Lord, you know I love You. Show me the way". Then there appeared before me a Man dressed as a Shepherd and said unto me, "Come and follow Me". I trusted Him and walked behind Him and as we walked, the Light became brighter. I said, "My Lord, I have not done anything to deserve this blessing". And He said, "Yes, you have. You have followed Me on My path".
The funny thing is, no amount of law keeping brought me any where close to where I stood with that Man who was dressed as a Shepherd. I just trusted Him in His leading and hearkened to Him as to where the path is, and there I was, in the Light. All because I trusted in Him.
C
My point too. If Jesus is God and the One who gave the Law in the first place and they say that we teach lawlessness because we follow the Son and have forgotten the Father (lol, as though they were two Gods), then I cannot help but to conclude that they are saying that the One who is leading us Christians is teaching contrary to His own Laws. Does that argument hold any sense of reasoning if the One leading us is that same Lawgiver in the first place? And they want to say that we have forsaken the Father.
D
True. It is very flawed logic. Christians are told to obey the morals of Christ which are included in some of the Mosaic laws. Yet Christ made them more strict then what the Jews were to obey. Jesus said we have to watch our very thoughts. If we think lustful thoughts about another female, we have committed adultery. If we think about killing a person Jesus says we are guilty of murder. And of what Jew would rip his eye out if if offended him but Christ told His followers to do that. Jesus showed us the moral laws or more complicated and more strict than the Jews ever imagined. So when they call us lawless it is completely in error.
What Good is the Law
Proverbs 3
Trust in the Lord
1My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
2For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.
3Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
4So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Verse 4 seems to have the answer:
4So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
God Bless
I picked "no" for the poll, and answer "no" to your questions. But when I was reading through some of the posts on this thread (as well as some posts in my Romans thread) and I couldn't help but imagine a conversation between us and Christ, and I just want to share it to see if some things lines up for some of us. Let me know what you think Keren.
---
Christ: Go and sin no more (John 8:11).
Us: But that’s impossible! We can’t cease from sinning because we’re not you.
Christ: Here...if you believe in me take my Spirit. That’s why it was given to you as a gift, so that I may again resist Adam’s flesh, through you, and not sin.
Christ: Be perfect even as you father in heaven is perfect (Matthew 5:48).
Us: But we can’t because we’re not you. Only you are perfect.
Christ: Yeah, that’s why my Spirit is given to you. Here...take it, so that I may again be perfect in Adam’s flesh, through you.
Christ: Follow me... (Matthew 16:24).
Us: We can’t because we’re not you. We can’t walk as you walked.
Christ: I know. This is why I offer you my Spirit. Take my Spirit, so that I may again walk in Adam’s flesh, through you.
Us: How do we follow you, if we don’t know the way?
Christ: I am the way the truth and the life (John 14:5-6). Do what I did. I was obedient to our Father.
Us: We can’t be obedient! Only you are able to be obedient to God.
Christ: THAT’S WHAT MY SPIRIT IS FOR! TAKE IT, so that I may again be obedient to our Father in Adam’s flesh, through you. Why do you deny the power of my Spirit? Are you saying your flesh is somehow stronger than my Spirit? I had the same flesh you have.
Us: NO! You do NOT empower us with your Spirit to obey God’s law! NO ONE can obey God’s law but you! And to even say such a thing is a lie from satan.
Christ: But that’s what the new covenant is. As Ezekiel 36:27 says “And I will put my Spirit *IN* you and MOVE you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.” It’s what Jeremiah 31:31 & 33 says; “Behold, days are coming, declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,... But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people”
Christ: There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the Law. It doesn't need to go anywhere. It’s not the problem...you are. It condemns because *you* are evil...that’s why we have to change *you*.
Us: BUT WE CAN'T CHANGE! We don't have the power to!
Christ: When you truly believe in me, my Spirit moves you to follow My Laws and shows you how to do that. You will want to obey...you can’t help it, because I’m in you, and all I want to do is obey my father because I love him. That’s how you KNOW you’re *already* saved, because you *want* to obey...and you will eventually obey, because I’m working in you. Your character becomes my character. You're supposed to die (Matthew 16:24)...and I'm supposed to live in you instead (Galatians 2:20). Like *you* said...only I can obey God's Law. So why do you deny me?
Us: No! We don't deny you...but we do not obey the Law, not while we were unsaved and not after we are saved. And any spirit that leads us to obey is of satan because there's no way we can.
Christ: But isn't that backwards? A spirit that leads you to obey is a spirit of obedience...while a spirit that says "do not obey the law" is a spirit of lawlessness (2 Thessalonians 2:7). How can satan go against his own nature of lawlessness? How can satan go against himself? "A house divided against itself can not stand" (Matthew 12:25)! I obeyed my father's law at all times. This is why I'm called sinless and perfect. My spirit is a spirit of obedience. If my spirit is in you you will *want* to do all that I did. You will want to obey.
Why do you deny me?
---
Christ: Go and sin no more (John 8:11).
Us: But that’s impossible! We can’t cease from sinning because we’re not you.
Christ: Here...if you believe in me take my Spirit. That’s why it was given to you as a gift, so that I may again resist Adam’s flesh, through you, and not sin.
Christ: Be perfect even as you father in heaven is perfect (Matthew 5:48).
Us: But we can’t because we’re not you. Only you are perfect.
Christ: Yeah, that’s why my Spirit is given to you. Here...take it, so that I may again be perfect in Adam’s flesh, through you.
Christ: Follow me... (Matthew 16:24).
Us: We can’t because we’re not you. We can’t walk as you walked.
Christ: I know. This is why I offer you my Spirit. Take my Spirit, so that I may again walk in Adam’s flesh, through you.
Us: How do we follow you, if we don’t know the way?
Christ: I am the way the truth and the life (John 14:5-6). Do what I did. I was obedient to our Father.
Us: We can’t be obedient! Only you are able to be obedient to God.
Christ: THAT’S WHAT MY SPIRIT IS FOR! TAKE IT, so that I may again be obedient to our Father in Adam’s flesh, through you. Why do you deny the power of my Spirit? Are you saying your flesh is somehow stronger than my Spirit? I had the same flesh you have.
Us: NO! You do NOT empower us with your Spirit to obey God’s law! NO ONE can obey God’s law but you! And to even say such a thing is a lie from satan.
Christ: But that’s what the new covenant is. As Ezekiel 36:27 says “And I will put my Spirit *IN* you and MOVE you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.” It’s what Jeremiah 31:31 & 33 says; “Behold, days are coming, declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,... But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people”
Christ: There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the Law. It doesn't need to go anywhere. It’s not the problem...you are. It condemns because *you* are evil...that’s why we have to change *you*.
Us: BUT WE CAN'T CHANGE! We don't have the power to!
Christ: When you truly believe in me, my Spirit moves you to follow My Laws and shows you how to do that. You will want to obey...you can’t help it, because I’m in you, and all I want to do is obey my father because I love him. That’s how you KNOW you’re *already* saved, because you *want* to obey...and you will eventually obey, because I’m working in you. Your character becomes my character. You're supposed to die (Matthew 16:24)...and I'm supposed to live in you instead (Galatians 2:20). Like *you* said...only I can obey God's Law. So why do you deny me?
Us: No! We don't deny you...but we do not obey the Law, not while we were unsaved and not after we are saved. And any spirit that leads us to obey is of satan because there's no way we can.
Christ: But isn't that backwards? A spirit that leads you to obey is a spirit of obedience...while a spirit that says "do not obey the law" is a spirit of lawlessness (2 Thessalonians 2:7). How can satan go against his own nature of lawlessness? How can satan go against himself? "A house divided against itself can not stand" (Matthew 12:25)! I obeyed my father's law at all times. This is why I'm called sinless and perfect. My spirit is a spirit of obedience. If my spirit is in you you will *want* to do all that I did. You will want to obey.
Why do you deny me?
C
Yahshua,
May I ask who is saying we can live without law, that we do not have to be obedient? Who is saying that we can steal, lie, kill, hate? Perhaps people are saying that we cannot obtained righteousness through obedience of the Law, but that the same Lawgiver is the One who is present in that leading to the Promised Land for a Christian?
May I ask who is saying we can live without law, that we do not have to be obedient? Who is saying that we can steal, lie, kill, hate? Perhaps people are saying that we cannot obtained righteousness through obedience of the Law, but that the same Lawgiver is the One who is present in that leading to the Promised Land for a Christian?
Please forgive me, Keren, if this is a derailment, but I have another question...
(if you'd like for me to start another thread, I surely won't be offended if you say so.
)
Can one be sanctified by keeping the Law of Moses?
(this question is quite pertinent, I think)
We all seem to agree that Christians must obey God.
The question seems to be, which commands ought we obey?
~ellie
ps--
Rom 4:13-16
For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.
For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all...
Rom 5:1a
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
Rom 5:20-21
The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
♥
(if you'd like for me to start another thread, I surely won't be offended if you say so.
)Can one be sanctified by keeping the Law of Moses?
(this question is quite pertinent, I think)
We all seem to agree that Christians must obey God.
The question seems to be, which commands ought we obey?
~ellie
ps--
Rom 4:13-16
For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.
For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all...
Rom 5:1a
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
Rom 5:20-21
The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
♥
Did God really ever expect national Israel to be perfectly obedient to the Law?
And what I placed in bold...are you saying others say that, or is this your own thought?
There's something seriously wrong with that statement, and I don't want to attribute it to you if that's incorrect.
And what I placed in bold...are you saying others say that, or is this your own thought?
There's something seriously wrong with that statement, and I don't want to attribute it to you if that's incorrect.
Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Perhaps then you can explain why God (this was the One who became Jesus Christ) gave them Laws they could not keep and then put them to death for breaking them?