The Truth About The Sabbath

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Oct 31, 2011
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yes, it is taking the Sabbath into one's own conscience, which as a Christian, is controlled by the Holy Spirit.

The Creator set aside 1 of 7. The specific day out of the week only matters to the Jews as a governmental form. We are not enslaved to Jewish government, just the principles of God. I know you disagree.
I have been taking a Saturday Sabbath for the past 2 weeks, and may continue to do so, but I don't think it is demanded by God, nor is it a sin to follow use Sunday.
I agree, this is what scripture tells us. But it also tells us: Exo_20:11 For the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and everything in them in six days; then He rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and declared it holy.

That doesn't say we are not to meet on any one day in the week, but isn't there a requirement for us for the Sabbath in acknowledging that this day is made holy?

Exo_31:14 Observe the Sabbath, for it is holy to you. Whoever profanes it must be put to death. If anyone does work on it, that person must be cut off from his people.

In Old Testament language, it is saying that those who will disregard God cannot live in His kingdom eternally. They would have to atone for this sin through blood. It seems to me that when the Old Testament gives a principle of how God is, because God is eternal and does not change, even the new covenant cannot change that not regarding this day as holy requires what is now not atonement, but salvation through the blood of Christ.
 
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phil112

Guest
.................In Old Testament language, it is saying that those who will disregard God cannot live in His kingdom eternally. They would have to atone for this sin through blood. It seems to me that when the Old Testament gives a principle of how God is, because God is eternal and does not change, even the new covenant cannot change that not regarding this day as holy requires what is now not atonement, but salvation through the blood of Christ.
I have news for you. God doesn't care what "it seems to you". His plan was set before time. Are you so dense that you cannot understand it didn't change, only that it became outdated. Do you believe that God didn't realize there was going to be 6 BILLION people on this planet and more? Can you imagine the chaos and strife that having even a third of those people trying to have enough animals for offerings alone would bring? Do you not understand that things HAD to change, and God built that into His plan?
When Christ shed His blood on the cross, He fulfilled the law, so that we might obtain salvation today. Do you understand that when you cling to the law you are rejecting the blood of Christ that He shed for you that day?
 
Dec 29, 2013
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I see men teaching the errors of Rome. Peter had not the authority to change the law of Almighty anymore than the Pope! To say one does not believe in Messiah if we follow His commandments? You know what Paul had to say about that, but that's a pesky little verse, now isn't it? God forbid... false teachers say Messiah's words have no merit.

In Matthew 5:17, Jesus declared, "Think NOT that I am come to destroy the Law . . ." So WHY is it that this is what people think? Jesus clearly said DO NOT EVEN THINK THIS, yet ministers and Bible "scholars" alike go ahead and GO AGAINST Jesus' clear teaching by saying that we do not have to keep God's Law. We are warned of these FALSE teachers by the apostle Paul in 2Cor 11:13-15, "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness: whose end shall be according to their works." Satan's ministers pawn themselves off as Jesus' ministers and Satan makes himself out to be Christ!!!
Right on Karraster, Jesus and the Bible writers taught no such thing as is implied by the antinomian crowd. People, when tempted by the antinomian message, believe it---because they want to.
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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I have news for you. God doesn't care what "it seems to you". His plan was set before time. Are you so dense that you cannot understand it didn't change, only that it became outdated. Do you believe that God didn't realize there was going to be 6 BILLION people on this planet and more? Can you imagine the chaos and strife that having even a third of those people trying to have enough animals for offerings alone would bring? Do you not understand that things HAD to change, and God built that into His plan?
When Christ shed His blood on the cross, He fulfilled the law, so that we might obtain salvation today. Do you understand that when you cling to the law you are rejecting the blood of Christ that He shed for you that day?
holy spirit to be exact which is the only thing that saves a person, it's a pithy... thank God a few of my adventist friends notice something was wrong and that conviction led them to christ and they both were born again now they preach the grace of God back in the adventist church with me, but it's very tough same thing that is happening here...i truly think their hearts have been hardened though, it was phophecied that a strong delusion would come and they would believe a lie because i just can't understand
 
Dec 29, 2013
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I have news for you. God doesn't care what "it seems to you". His plan was set before time. Are you so dense that you cannot understand it didn't change, only that it became outdated. Do you believe that God didn't realize there was going to be 6 BILLION people on this planet and more? Can you imagine the chaos and strife that having even a third of those people trying to have enough animals for offerings alone would bring? Do you not understand that things HAD to change, and God built that into His plan?
When Christ shed His blood on the cross, He fulfilled the law, so that we might obtain salvation today. Do you understand that when you cling to the law you are rejecting the blood of Christ that He shed for you that day?
phil112, you are misrepresenting our position by implying that RedTent and myself cling to the Old Covenant blood ordinances. If this were true you would see us sacrificing animals. You do not. Jesus came to fulfill the Old Covenant sacrificial and ceremonial law. As stated in Matthew 5:17 he did not come to "destroy the law" (the moral law, i.e., the Law of the Lord). To say that he did is a contradiction of the Word of God, one which originates in the realm of wishful thinking. If what you say regarding the Law of the Lord is true why then, years into the New Covenant, would John remind Christians that "...sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4)?
 
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phil112

Guest
phil112, you are misrepresenting our position by implying that RedTent and myself cling to the Old Covenant blood ordinances. If this were true you would see us sacrificing animals. You do not. Jesus came to fulfill the Old Covenant sacrificial and ceremonial law. As stated in Matthew 5:17 he did not come to "destroy the law" (the moral law, i.e., the Law of the Lord). To say that he did is a contradiction of the Word of God, one which originates in the realm of wishful thinking. If what you say regarding the Law of the Lord is true why then, years into the New Covenant, would John remind Christians that "...sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4)?
You need to read your bible more. Your reading comprehension is lacking. If you try to keep part of the law, you are under all of it. Jesus fulfilled that requirement.
 
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danschance

Guest
danschance, what you believe and promote regarding the 4th commandment and other laws is contrary to context and Christian history. Why do you think the Puritan/Pilgrim founders of this nation respected the fourth commandment by ceasing from their labors on Sunday. What do you think, is the origin of "blue laws," the laws, once in every state, which prohibited the selling of victuals and wares (see Neh. 10:29-31) on Sunday? Whose side are you on?
The NT clearly states man is sinful. This means we have broken God's laws and certainly, that is lawlessness, the state of all humans on the earth. The big question is what law is John talking about in the verse you cited. Is it the Mosaic law or something else?

First, lets see if the Mosaic laws are for the NT believer. These four verses clearly spell the end of the Mosaic laws for the NT believer.

1) "For Christ is the end to the law of righteousness to everyone who believes" Romans 10:4

2) "Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under the a guardian (i.e. the mosaic law), for in Christ Jesus you are the sons of God, through faith.
Gal 3:23-25

3) "by abolishing the commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace." Eph. 2:15

4) But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of written code. Romans 7:6

So if we are not under the Mosaic laws, which law is John mentioning in 1 John 3:4? Christians are under the law of Christ.

1) To those outside the law I become as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 1 Cor 9:21

2) Bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ. Gal 6:2

More on what the Law of Christ: What is the law of Christ?

Very clearly the NT believer is NOT held captive to the Mosaic law. There is no NT mandate to observe the Sabbath. The early Church did not observe Sabbath but the chose to gather on the "Lord's Day" or Sunday.
 
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danschance

Guest
This is the mindset that sought to/and indeed did, get the ten commandments removed from sight in the US. Satan must be very proud that arguments of your sort has for the most part, been successful. Now chew on that.
The NT believer is not under the Mosaic laws but is under the law of Christ. Records show the early Church did not have a sabbath.

The Didache"But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas
"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch
"[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr
"[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . ." (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).
"But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).

Tertullian
"[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God" (An Answer to the Jews 2 [A.D. 203]).

The Didascalia
"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

Origen
"Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection" (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).

Victorinus
"The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished" (The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]).

Eusebius of Caesarea
"They [the early saints of the Old Testament] did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we [Christians]. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we. They did not avoid certain kinds of food, neither did they regard the other distinctions which Moses first delivered to their posterity to be observed as symbols; nor do Christians of the present day do such things" (Church History 1:4:8 [A.D. 312]).
"[T]he day of his [Christ’s] light . . . was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lord’s day, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic law for feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths, which the apostle [Paul] teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality" (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186 [A.D. 319]).

Athanasius
"The Sabbath was the end of the first creation, the Lord’s day was the beginning of the second, in which he renewed and restored the old in the same way as he prescribed that they should formerly observe the Sabbath as a memorial of the end of the first things, so we honor the Lord’s day as being the memorial of the new creation" (On Sabbath and Circumcision 3 [A.D. 345]).

Cyril of Jerusalem
"Fall not away either into the sect of the Samaritans or into Judaism, for Jesus Christ has henceforth ransomed you. Stand aloof from all observance of Sabbaths and from calling any indifferent meats common or unclean" (Catechetical Lectures 4:37 [A.D. 350]).

Council of Laodicea
"Christians should not Judaize and should not be idle on the Sabbath, but should work on that day; they should, however, particularly reverence the Lord’s day and, if possible, not work on it, because they were Christians" (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]).
 
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danschance

Guest
P.S. The seventh day Sabbath was given back at creation therefore not a mosaic law. It was the celebration at the end of God's creation - Kinda like His signature on a job well done and God celebrated it with Adam and Eve.
The first mention of Sabbath is in Exodus 16, not Genesis. You are believing a myth.
 
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danschance

Guest
danschance, how do you reconcile your interpretations of "law" with 1900 years of church history on this subject? How can you not know that the early church, the Protestant Reformers, and most evangelicals, until recent decades, did not promote your antinomian position, that which Jesus warned about. See Matt. 7:21-23 for "iniquity" (lawlessness).

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the
commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

danschance, please read the above, the scores of other texts, and the entire chapters (Psalm 119) which tell us to obey the Law of the Lord, the moral compass used by Jesus ("...for sin is the transgression of the law" [1 John 3:4]).

Historicist

The nomian nuts insist we are under the old covenant and in doing so, they nullify the sacrifice of Christ on the cross and cheat themselves out of salvation.
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. Gal 2:21

You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. Gal 5:4
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
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Originally Posted by LT
most aren't saying that the official "Sabbath" has changed days, but that it doesn't matter which day you take off, as long as you give 1 of 7 to the Lord as a day of rest.

They are saying that the calendar day means nothing, only the principle of taking a day off.


LT

God so lovingly wrote - REMEMBER the Sabbath day to keep it holy, six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord Thy God. etc..... Most all of the other commandments were a direct Thou Shalt Not but for the Sabbath God asked us to Remember. The other was Honor your father and your mother. God was the one who asked us to remember the 7th day it was God's choice. The seventh day Sabbath is a Memorial of God's creation and God said that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. God created man on the 6th day and on the 7th day God rested from all His labors and celebrated the finish of His creation with Adam and Eve. God blessed the 7th day, hallowed it, sanctified it and said it was a sign between Him and us. It is God's sign, seal on all creation. Kind of like His signature on a job well done and we get to celebrate it every week with Him on the seventh day Sabbath.

Those wonderful Christian people who celebrate on Sunday and don't know any different aren't condemned, but those who know to do right and don't do it - it is sin. Our loving God just asks us to Remember.
 
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phil112

Guest
Those wonderful Christian people who celebrate on Sunday and don't know any different aren't condemned, but those who know to do right and don't do it - it is sin. Our loving God just asks us to Remember.
We aren't "doing it right" isn't condemnation? You need to think about that.
I have asked and asked, and have yet for one of you folks that like the sabbath to point out why you disregard the new testament. Why is that?
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. ............He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
 
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danschance

Guest
You got some scripture for that? ONe thing I will give you credit for, it takes more brass than I have to rewrite God's Commandments for Him.
Yes, Hebrews 10:25, as previously mentioned.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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I have news for you. God doesn't care what "it seems to you". His plan was set before time. Are you so dense that you cannot understand it didn't change, only that it became outdated. Do you believe that God didn't realize there was going to be 6 BILLION people on this planet and more? Can you imagine the chaos and strife that having even a third of those people trying to have enough animals for offerings alone would bring? Do you not understand that things HAD to change, and God built that into His plan?
When Christ shed His blood on the cross, He fulfilled the law, so that we might obtain salvation today. Do you understand that when you cling to the law you are rejecting the blood of Christ that He shed for you that day?
Phil, you have shown me that you don't read the bible, and that you only want chaos for the 6 Billion people. Without the Holy Spirit in you, there really is no use trying to explain God's plan for you, understanding comes with that spirit. If you had that spirit, you would not be speaking in the way you do. Denying God!! Using blood of animals instead of Christ!! I think if you will just read the gospel of John with prayer and being humble before your Lord, your ability to hear God would improve.
 
Dec 29, 2013
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The NT believer is not under the Mosaic laws but is under the law of Christ. Records show the early Church did not have a sabbath.
What is being described here are the Old Covenant ceremonial Sabbaths. The last quote, from the Council of Laodicea, is a reference to "the Sabbath," but that which was kept by those Israelites who rejected Jesus and the New Covenant. There's, because it did not occur on the day Jesus rose from the dead ("the first day of the week [sabbatons]) was not to be honored by Christians as the remaining Sabbath (Hebrews 4:9). This is why the Council instructed Christians to work on that day (i.e., that observed by unbelieving Israelites. The same is true today, we are not to honor Saturday, that which is still observed by unbelieving contemporary "Jews." We are, as stated by the council, to reverence Sunday, or "the Lord's day and, if possible, not work on it. The bottom line here is, that this council was instructing early Christians to disrespect the Jewish Saturday Sabbath and respect the Christian Sunday Sabbath. Again, "Judaize," as applied in the afore mentioned quote is in a context condemning, not the Sunday Sabbath of Christians, but the Saturday Sabbath of Jews. It was the Sunday Sabbath, the Lord's day which was the one day in seven, the Sabbath that "remaineth," and to be honored. As Hebrews 4 states:

There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath rest) to the people of God. v. 9

Christendom, for over nineteen hundred years, has given this distinction to Sunday, please respect it.
 
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Oct 31, 2011
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Christians are not under the Mosaic laws. We are under the law of Christ explained here: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/82418-attack-judaizers-97.html#post1380693
Many posters keep saying that Christ destroyed the Mosaic Laws, yet Christ said he didn't in the Sermon of the Mount. How can you say you believe in Christ and not believe him? Christ told of how he built on the laws. How could something be added to, built on, and destroy what he built on?

Everytime man puts something into practice that God told him to do, it has resulted in good. Getting rid of law has resulted in bad things happening in our world and churches.

But I know you can't hear these words of Christ. Perhaps you should just be left alone to teach these things, God will take care of it.
 
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phil112

Guest
Phil, you have shown me that you don't read the bible, and that you only want chaos for the 6 Billion people. Without the Holy Spirit in you, there really is no use trying to explain God's plan for you, understanding comes with that spirit. If you had that spirit, you would not be speaking in the way you do. Denying God!! Using blood of animals instead of Christ!! I think if you will just read the gospel of John with prayer and being humble before your Lord, your ability to hear God would improve.
That was a bunch of silly prattle. What were you trying to say? If you accept part of the law, you are putting yourself under all of it. Pretty sure that isn't a good idea.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
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We aren't "doing it right" isn't condemnation? You need to think about that.
I have asked and asked, and have yet for one of you folks that like the sabbath to point out why you disregard the new testament. Why is that?
I didn't say you weren't doing it right you said that I was stating James 4:17 Therefore to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.
 
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danschance

Guest
You are quoting the position of the churches today, and you truly have won. The work to take all discipline out of our churches, and toward allowing government to make this into federal law is accomplished and more so every day.

Under the guise of the spirit and Christ leading us, the Father is mocked. Moral codes are a thing of the past, even in the pastors of our churches.

Scripture tells us you will win, and we will live in a lawless society more and more as the last days approach. When you say that is Christ and the Holy Spirit leading us to living without law, I can understand why scripture would say that God is mocked.
Wow Red, I posted four scriptures that clearly say the mosaic laws are not over NT believers and you call me lawless. Must you sink to the sin name calling? I state openly and repeatedly, that I am under the Law of Christ and you claim I am lawless?

The "nomian nuts" are the ones who mock Christ but mocking the very death of Christ when they say "we must follow the Mosaic laws":
"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." Gal 2:21