What does the word 'rapture' mean to you?

[PlainWord]

Here is the deal with the Rapture. There isn't a rapture the way most of us think or thought. Jesus isn't coming back and catching us all in the clouds and taking us to heaven. The Rapture as most define it, doesn't happen until the end of the world/age. See 2 Peter 3:10.

Most of the "rapture" verses have been misunderstood, 1 Thes 4, 1 Cor 15, Mat 24, etc these all relate to God's coming at the end of the age. If you read 1 Thes 4:14-17 and read carefully, it is God that is coming and it is at the very LAST TRUMPET to ever sound on this earth. If you replace the word, "LORD" with the word, "GOD" then it becomes clear.

Jesus does not come to rapture the church before, during or after the Tribulation. Jesus does not come at the LAST, or 7th Trump of Revelation. Jesus comes back ONE TIME AND ONE TIME ONLY!!! He comes at the Battle of Armageddon which relates to the 6th Bowl of God's wrath. Read Rev 19-20. Jesus comes on a white horse with the martyred saints. He "gathers" his believers here on earth who are alive and remain. I am not sure if the mortal believers are part of the great battle or not, but clearly the "army (from) heaven" fight with Jesus and destroy HIS enemies. Jesus then sets up HIS kingdom on earth (near or in Jerusalem) and rules with the martyred saints for 1,000 years.

At the end of the 1,000 years, GOD the FATHER HIMSELF blows the Last Trumpet. GOD resurrects and brings with HIM all the Dead in Christ (non-martyred believers). GOD raises up all the unbelievers and Jesus himself judges them on the last day of earth. The wicked are cast into the Lake of Fire and the righteous enter the new heaven and new earth.

All of this is in the scriptures and is rock solid.

 

[MarkIA]

Poles, polls, and rolls. When they roll is called up yonder, I'll be there. Do you like fried human flesh. You probably will. Although God is a God of mercy. What do you think is going to happen in the trib. It's going to be so bad that it has never occured on earth before. You know from scripture that Israel (the chosen people of God) ate their own children because the famine was so severe. You think that trib is a walk in the park are you kidding me.

truly the topic of Tribulation is one big scary topic.
but the Lord said not to be afraid for He is with us.

Acts 14:22
Strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

 

[Heartsearcher]

what it means to me.... YAY YAY TIME TO GO HOME

 

[nathan3]

Non of the above. To me it equals apostasy . When you follow what people teach today, to its conclusion; It equals a very bad teaching. Something that muddies the Bible. It conditions Christians, especially those who do not have an appetite to study the Bible to learn what is actually written. It teaches to ignore important details .

A word never uttered by the apostles nor Christ. A teaching, never taught by the Bible. A teaching God says He is against.

 

[abbiejean]

what it means to me.... YAY YAY TIME TO GO HOME

So agree. Amen

 

[Vernon]

Non of the above. To me it equals apostasy . When you follow what people teach today, to its conclusion; It equals a very bad teaching. Something that muddies the Bible. It conditions Christians, especially those who do not have an appetite to study the Bible to learn what is actually written. It teaches to ignore important details .

A word never uttered by the apostles nor Christ. A teaching, never taught by the Bible. A teaching God says He is against.

English: Rapture, Latin: Raptuso, Greek: Harpazo, Aramaic: netchatef what does the word mean to you?

 

[nathan3]

English: Rapture, Latin: Raptuso, Greek: Harpazo, Aramaic: netchatef what does the word mean to you?

I already answered ( the word is not in the Bible ) .

Technically, if your looking for a definition , then its something along the lines, of an emotional response, being caught up in confusion. Or even taken by force , against your will......


It reminds me a little of what Peter said of Paul's writings, and Paul even taught on different levels; if you did not understand them, then they could lead to some ones own hurt, or it can be looked at , as a self imposed ignorance of the word, for their own protection.

 

[SolidGround]

I already answered ( the word is not in the Bible ) .

Technically, if your looking for a definition , then its something along the lines, of an emotional response, being caught up in confusion. Or even taken by force , against your will......


It reminds me a little of what Peter said of Paul's writings, and Paul even taught on different levels; if you did not understand them, then they could lead to some ones own hurt, or it can be looked at , as a self imposed ignorance of the word, for their own protection.

what about the word arpagēsometha?

that is the Greek word for rapture, and it occurs in 1 thes 4:17.
why do you hate the word so much?

 

[Historicist]

Non of the above. To me it equals apostasy . When you follow what people teach today, to its conclusion; It equals a very bad teaching. Something that muddies the Bible. It conditions Christians, especially those who do not have an appetite to study the Bible to learn what is actually written. It teaches to ignore important details .

A word never uttered by the apostles nor Christ. A teaching, never taught by the Bible. A teaching God says He is against.

I agree nathan3, the reason the dispensationalist-futurist establishment insists upon using this word is to disguise the fact that 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and 1 Cor. 15 is describing the resurrection (see Rev. 20:5). By calling the event in 1 Thess. 4 and 1 Cor. 15 by another name ('the rapture") they are better able to deceive us with the idea of something which happens seven years before the resurrection. Paul, writing of the resurrection, was not contradicting John, he was not describing something which will happen seven years before "the first resurrection" (Rev. 20:5). This is why the religious establishment has conveniently changed the theme in 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and 1 Cor. 15 from resurrection to their "rapture" interpretation. It's to disguise the fact that Paul is not describing a resurrection seven years before "the first resurrection" (Rev. 20:5). Scripture does not contradict scripture, only interpretations do that. Take a close look at 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and you will not find a Jesus who descends from heaven, goes back for seven years, and descends again---a third time! It isn't there.

 

[Historicist]

English: Rapture, Latin: Raptuso, Greek: Harpazo, Aramaic: netchatef what does the word mean to you?

Vernon, what's wrong with describing the event in 1 Thess. 4:13-18 for what it is---the resurrection? This was done for 1900 years of Christian history. Do you really think that Paul was describing a resurrection seven years before "the first resurrection" (Rev. 20:50)? Take a look at the original versions of Nave's Topical Bible and Halley's Bible Handbook (I have them) and you will not find 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and 1 Cor. 15 described as "the rapture." The Bible does not contradict itself, there is therefore no seven year period, no second chance between some "rapture" and "the first resurrection" (Rev. 20:5).

 

[Historicist]

what about the word arpagēsometha?

that is the Greek word for rapture, and it occurs in 1 thes 4:17.
why do you hate the word so much?

Call it that if you will SolidGround, but the context of 1 Thess. 4:13-18 says nothing about a Jesus who descends from heaven but gives the people whose flag you fly a second chance by returning to heaven. There is no second chance in some seven year period, that which the futurist establishment needs for a nation of neo-Pharisees, those they say will accept Jesus---just before he descends from heaven again---a third time! There is no second chance and no third time, unless of course, one needs the idea for their non-Christian "Israel."

 

[Historicist]

what it means to me.... YAY YAY TIME TO GO HOME

Heartsearcher, I've been studying John 14:1-3, 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and 1 Cor. 15 since before you were born. During this time I've found nothing in the context of these verses about a Jesus who goes back to heaven taking Christians with him. Have you ever considered that the popular phrase "go to heaven"---is not in the Bible. If you think I'm wrong, look it up. Using Strong's Concordance do a search for "heaven" preceded by the words "go to," or "get to." You won't find it. It isn't there. Neither Jesus nor the Bible writers used the phrase "go to heaven," not once did they ever use those words in that sequence. They did say that real Christians will "...inherit the kingdom of God." And it is not in heaven. It is on earth, "the meek shall inherit the earth" (Matt. 5:5). He could have said "go to heaven" couldn't he. But he did not. There's much more to it than this, if you would like to know send me a message.

Historicist

 

[SolidGround]

Call it that if you will SolidGround, but the context of 1 Thess. 4:13-18 says nothing about a Jesus who descends from heaven but gives the people whose flag you fly a second chance by returning to heaven. There is no second chance in some seven year period, that which the futurist establishment needs for a nation of neo-Pharisees, those they say will accept Jesus---just before he descends from heaven again---a third time! There is no second chance and no third time, unless of course, one needs the idea for their non-Christian "Israel."

the rapture would have to do with Christians only... why do you bring up non-converted Jews?
that is not the rapture...
Do you deny that the saints will be caught up with the Lord on the Last Day? of course not! then why argue with me about it?

 

[GaryA]

So then...

Is my point not made exceedingly clear?

Unless and until a commonly-agreed definition for 'rapture' can be had --- any discussion involving even the concept of 'rapture' will be difficult at best to try to have intellectually...

 

[SolidGround]

So then...

Is my point not made exceedingly clear?

Unless and until a commonly-agreed definition for 'rapture' can be had --- any discussion involving even the concept of 'rapture' will be difficult at best to try to have intellectually...

your point is very clear.

 

[nathan3]

I agree nathan3, the reason the dispensationalist-futurist establishment insists upon using this word is to disguise the fact that 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and 1 Cor. 15 is describing the resurrection (see Rev. 20:5). By calling the event in 1 Thess. 4 and 1 Cor. 15 by another name ('the rapture") they are better able to deceive us with the idea of something which happens seven years before the resurrection. Paul, writing of the resurrection, was not contradicting John, he was not describing something which will happen seven years before "the first resurrection" (Rev. 20:5). This is why the religious establishment has conveniently changed the theme in 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and 1 Cor. 15 from resurrection to their "rapture" interpretation. It's to disguise the fact that Paul is not describing a resurrection seven years before "the first resurrection" (Rev. 20:5). Scripture does not contradict scripture, only interpretations do that. Take a close look at 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and you will not find a Jesus who descends from heaven, goes back for seven years, and descends again---a third time! It isn't there.

Im not sure what you mean honestly. There is a resurrection, but theres just too many views to that verse, that i cant say i know which one your from.

 

[Vernon]

Vernon, what's wrong with describing the event in 1 Thess. 4:13-18 for what it is---the resurrection? This was done for 1900 years of Christian history. Do you really think that Paul was describing a resurrection seven years before "the first resurrection" (Rev. 20:50)? Take a look at the original versions of Nave's Topical Bible and Halley's Bible Handbook (I have them) and you will not find 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and 1 Cor. 15 described as "the rapture." The Bible does not contradict itself, there is therefore no seven year period, no second chance between some "rapture" and "the first resurrection" (Rev. 20:5).

I am not trying to discribe it in anyway, The Lord has not revealed to me details about his reappearing, I was just wondering what Nathan believed the word to mean. "Taken away by force" seems to be its most common definition from scripture. I have no understanding in how the consummation of the age shall take place.

And the lies of the dispensationalists are well documented so I can not believe in a rapture as they define it.

 

[nathan3]

what about the word

arpagēsometha?

that is the Greek word for rapture, and it occurs in 1 thes 4:17.
why do you hate the word so much?

Please bear with me, and read this all. I took time to try to actually explain this better then I have before.


Here is the Greek defintion for the word

harpazō

har-pad'-zo

From a derivative of G138 ; to seize (in various applications): - catch ({away} {up}) {pluck} {pull} take (by force).





I don't hate the word, I just don't like its misuse . Especially in this case.

The word has a few meanings, but the subject matter determines how the word is used.

It is used of Christ and or God taking people in different ways, or it can be used of Satan taking people in deception .

It also used in more general sense and its meaning hinges on the subject matter a lot :
like in 1 Thess 4:17, of being taking to a higher level of existence because of, " the change into a spiritual body.
( that is what the bible teaches is happening in that verse at Christ return. ) "

The misunderstanding of the Greek there and its subject, still dose not give people the right to draw from it and say: "Christ returns before the Tribulation, or during . You cant even get that from 1 Thess 4.

I can't really stand to even hear Christ's return described with the word rapture, because even if it was put in the right order, it still teaches people not to know what kind of change is taking place and when, in 1 Thess 4: 17 .

Specifically , the problem people have with the Greek is not so much with the word harpazō as it is with the English word "Air.

Because if your familiar with Christ'S return, & those scriptures, like Paul's teachings, you know there's a change that takes place. and then you would eventually ( Prayerfully ) also learn "air" in it's Greek; is describing a spiritual body & a change.

Many have been conditioned with the lie, that air is the atmosphere; we think of in English, when we see the English word air... Like I pointed to, the fact of the matter is, it means breath of life; and its subject is a change in bodies caught up spiritually in that change.

So the subject is change of bodies at Christ return in verse 17.


The majority sadly , they just see " caught up," or whatever they want to translate it as " rapture" whatever, and totally ignore the facts I stated above.
And also the difficulty trying to describe how cloud is used there, ( because the word; is just cloud ), but its use as a figure of speech is lost to people, because of the aforementioned confusion so called pastors, teachers, ministers have perpetrated on their congregations.

Note Cloud for its use would be akin to Hebrews 12:1 , for a throng of people( He returning with those Christians, His armies, angles etc. )

So why would this be important, why care as i hear many Christians say? Why do I think its a sad thing ?

I'll tell you why. Because any-moment rapture, teaches the majority of Christians, to gloss over much scripture, exmaple: 2 Thess 2. And or change it, to allow rapture any-moment, to fit:

One big problem with that though, Christ returns not at any moment, but at the Last Trump ( the seventh ). And Satan, in his role as Antichrist, appears de facto at the 6th; before, Christ.

Now ;
If you then were not being taught this, and simply are a believer in Christ, without being aware of Christ teachings on this, and was exited to be taken by Christ, who you believe to be arriiving unaware at anymoment, then you would be taken sure, but you would be taken by the first one showing up claiming to be Christ.

Hence those warning, Don't be taken in Satan's flood , Don't be with child in those days, Dont be as the 5 foolish virgins, Don't be taken out of the field. Don't be taken out of season, wait till true Harvest; certianly not at Antichrist's time. That is not harvests

And I can go on and on with countless warnings even in types in the old testament about this.

That is the reason I don't like the misuse and twisting of this word, because it will lead Christians into that Apostasy.
Paul warned the Christians about that deception in his letter 2 Thessalonians chapter 2.

Another problem people are facing, is the belief, that Antichrist is coming to kill people. That teaching is just as bad if not worse then the any-moment rapture. Because it repeats the same pit falls. And it plays right into Satan's hands

Just for emphasis on what I'm trying to wake people up to here, lets look at the word " harpazō " used in another place in the Bible:



Matthew 11:12

King James Version (KJV)

12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take(harpazō) it by force( harpazō ) .


Matthew 13:19

King James Version (KJV)

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away( harpazō ) that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

 

[parablepete]

It means nothing to me. If your talking about the coming of the Lord. Yes, I believe that, don't know when? As for RAPTURE its not in the bible. Un-less its in some new translation that I don't know about.

 

[GaryA]

And the lies of the dispensationalists are well documented so I can not believe in a rapture as they define it.

"This is actually the problem..."

The word 'rapture' was first defined by dispensationalists - and, their definition included certain "details" not found in scripture.

"It's been messed up ever since..."