God doesn't seem to really care.
- Thread starter Arcynaculr
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People will only go to hell by a conscious free choice as to not believe God at God's word through son Christ
This is what God did for us, gave us an escape through Son
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
This is what God did for us, gave us an escape through Son
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
So... you're saying you will only show mercy to people who express thanks towards you for it? You should not let people people starve, regardless of wether they are thankful towards you or not...
And its not fair in the least to give people "the world they want" when its no longer what they wanted. Thats like if someone wants a tv but you burn it into ashes first and then give it to them...
Well you were just an observer. but if you created those two trains knowing they would only crash, well that doesn't seem right...
Oh, and its not a moot point if you're trying to determine if god is trustable. Though, that may be impossible to determine. Key words: may be. or i guess it probably is impossible. but there is a chance its not. and its that chance im trying to go for.
And its not fair in the least to give people "the world they want" when its no longer what they wanted. Thats like if someone wants a tv but you burn it into ashes first and then give it to them...
Well you were just an observer. but if you created those two trains knowing they would only crash, well that doesn't seem right...
Oh, and its not a moot point if you're trying to determine if god is trustable. Though, that may be impossible to determine. Key words: may be. or i guess it probably is impossible. but there is a chance its not. and its that chance im trying to go for.
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Do you think you are alone in that? Guarantee you are not
That is why I posted it, and that is not how God views you
And I do know how others have befriended me in the past saying they love me and they lied
that is the problem here in this world selfishness, and why God came to earth to save it
So Brother it is what it is, maybe it is time for yopu to change your mind and see this
Ephesians 1:6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Since we are accepted, why do we need to be accepted if we are already
And i am not going to say anything other than God just love you
That is why I posted it, and that is not how God views you
And I do know how others have befriended me in the past saying they love me and they lied
that is the problem here in this world selfishness, and why God came to earth to save it
So Brother it is what it is, maybe it is time for yopu to change your mind and see this
Ephesians 1:6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Since we are accepted, why do we need to be accepted if we are already
And i am not going to say anything other than God just love you
the central thing here is whether God's love - specifically the God of Abraham & Isaac & Moses, manifest in Jesus Christ - can be proven genuine.
everywhere in the Bible when God's actions and/or intentions are questioned - not just Job, or Paul's eloquent argument in Romans 9, or Jonah, but also in the books of the prophets and implied in Ecclesiastes & the proverbs - in every case the answer given is "who is man to question God" -- it's called by men a philosophical "rabbit hole" to assert God's sovereignty, but this is the answer and the only answer that the scriptures give.
in pure concept, if there is 'god' than 'god' is infinitely beyond man in wisdom, capability, foresight, power and every virtue, or else how could we call him 'god' ? i take this reasoning. i accept it, even as i also wonder how & why it is that the world and life and the human condition came to be as it is. i really think that approaching 'god' with anything other than complete humility is foolish - he could squish me like a bug, erase me like a doodle, throw me away like a cigarette butt and there is no higher authority or justice i could appeal to other than 'god' himself, else he is not 'god.'
yeah, that's fear, and it is distasteful to mankind's nature to humble ourselves like that, especially before an ideological construct, but this is because our nature is proud - which the God of the bible calls sinful. pride is the original sin of Satan, and is #1 on the list of things God hates - above porn & murder and slamming someone into a locker. that this book says God hates pride more than anything else is in itself interesting..
but setting that aside - i think already most of what i've said here appeals to God being sovereign - how can a human be sure that divine love is genuine?
how do humans prove their love to one another?
imperfectly, for starters, haha.
but if i love a girl and i want to show her that - i might give her gifts. roses and chocolates and puppies! hasn't God done this for us too? we have sunsets and all the beauty of the earth, all the good food and the warm sunshine on our face, and guess who created puppies and kittens in the first place? the universe certainly didn't have to be this way. you can look at it as the anthropomorphic principle, but still, there it is, a universe full of beauty and wonder, and things that make us smile exist in it -- smiling exists.
if i love a girl i would be patient with her silliness - God too is patient; the same things we could say demonstrate His uncaring from a judgmental perspective demonstrate his patience from the perspective of faith. is he uncaring to let men go on doing wicked things without punishing them, or is He patient to give wicked men every opportunity to turn from their wicked ways? (are we even qualified to answer??)
if i love a girl i would put off my own plans to do the things she wants to do. here too, we could question God's character when we don't see what we could understand as his perfect will being carried out, or we could understand this as God allowing mankind to do their own thing - where the bible teaches that man's "own thing" is to do wickedness, that 'the heart is deceitfully wicked' - this again speaks of patience on God's part.
if i love a girl i would sacrifice myself for her. i would lay aside my own ideals, forgive her where she falls short of them to accept her, but hoping and working to patiently help her to enrich herself and become the best woman she can be. i would even die in her place, and leave her all my treasures. this is what Jesus has done.
if i chastise her, it would be like a father who fusses at his daughter, because he knows what is best. the way a daughter knows her father's fussing was from his love is that when she has grown old, she learns how her ways as a child were foolish and sees by experience that her father was urging her towards wisdom. while she is a child she cannot understand these things; she can only trust him. (yeah, here i am back at sovereignty again!)
i think we have to admit that cosmically we are children. God's love for us then must be like a father's love for a child, and that kind of love from a child's perspective isn't always clear. human children are finicky and selfish; when their fathers give them toys and candy and hugs, they don't doubt love. but 30 minutes later when they are fussed at for leaving their candy wrappers laying around or playing with their toys when they should have been finishing their homework, or told to eat their vegetables and to brush their teeth, children say their fathers are the 'worst parents ever.' obviously an outside observer will see that the child's judgement is founded on unwarranted pride and incomplete information, and children able to recognize that they are childishness and trust their fathers are able to understand in time the love their fathers show them.
Christ also calls the church His bride - and in the old testament God speaks of Israel as both His adopted daughter and as a wife he took in, who became a whore, but whom after justly punishing and cleansing her, He was willing against the prevailing worldly wisdom to take back. so His love is even more than a father to a child, but as a husband and a wife. this love we cannot understand until we accept His marriage proposal. the love between newlyweds or a couple wooing each other or engaged to be married isn't near the depth of the love a couple celebrating their 50th anniversary share. all the doubt and confusion and amazement of the early years turns into trust & unspeakable understanding & thankfulness as time passes by. so too with God and man, taking the initial steps requires faith & is done with trepidation and anticipation, and looking back through hard times and stress, we wouldn't trade it for the world.
everywhere in the Bible when God's actions and/or intentions are questioned - not just Job, or Paul's eloquent argument in Romans 9, or Jonah, but also in the books of the prophets and implied in Ecclesiastes & the proverbs - in every case the answer given is "who is man to question God" -- it's called by men a philosophical "rabbit hole" to assert God's sovereignty, but this is the answer and the only answer that the scriptures give.
in pure concept, if there is 'god' than 'god' is infinitely beyond man in wisdom, capability, foresight, power and every virtue, or else how could we call him 'god' ? i take this reasoning. i accept it, even as i also wonder how & why it is that the world and life and the human condition came to be as it is. i really think that approaching 'god' with anything other than complete humility is foolish - he could squish me like a bug, erase me like a doodle, throw me away like a cigarette butt and there is no higher authority or justice i could appeal to other than 'god' himself, else he is not 'god.'
yeah, that's fear, and it is distasteful to mankind's nature to humble ourselves like that, especially before an ideological construct, but this is because our nature is proud - which the God of the bible calls sinful. pride is the original sin of Satan, and is #1 on the list of things God hates - above porn & murder and slamming someone into a locker. that this book says God hates pride more than anything else is in itself interesting..
but setting that aside - i think already most of what i've said here appeals to God being sovereign - how can a human be sure that divine love is genuine?
how do humans prove their love to one another?
imperfectly, for starters, haha.
but if i love a girl and i want to show her that - i might give her gifts. roses and chocolates and puppies! hasn't God done this for us too? we have sunsets and all the beauty of the earth, all the good food and the warm sunshine on our face, and guess who created puppies and kittens in the first place? the universe certainly didn't have to be this way. you can look at it as the anthropomorphic principle, but still, there it is, a universe full of beauty and wonder, and things that make us smile exist in it -- smiling exists.
if i love a girl i would be patient with her silliness - God too is patient; the same things we could say demonstrate His uncaring from a judgmental perspective demonstrate his patience from the perspective of faith. is he uncaring to let men go on doing wicked things without punishing them, or is He patient to give wicked men every opportunity to turn from their wicked ways? (are we even qualified to answer??)
if i love a girl i would put off my own plans to do the things she wants to do. here too, we could question God's character when we don't see what we could understand as his perfect will being carried out, or we could understand this as God allowing mankind to do their own thing - where the bible teaches that man's "own thing" is to do wickedness, that 'the heart is deceitfully wicked' - this again speaks of patience on God's part.
if i love a girl i would sacrifice myself for her. i would lay aside my own ideals, forgive her where she falls short of them to accept her, but hoping and working to patiently help her to enrich herself and become the best woman she can be. i would even die in her place, and leave her all my treasures. this is what Jesus has done.
if i chastise her, it would be like a father who fusses at his daughter, because he knows what is best. the way a daughter knows her father's fussing was from his love is that when she has grown old, she learns how her ways as a child were foolish and sees by experience that her father was urging her towards wisdom. while she is a child she cannot understand these things; she can only trust him. (yeah, here i am back at sovereignty again!)
i think we have to admit that cosmically we are children. God's love for us then must be like a father's love for a child, and that kind of love from a child's perspective isn't always clear. human children are finicky and selfish; when their fathers give them toys and candy and hugs, they don't doubt love. but 30 minutes later when they are fussed at for leaving their candy wrappers laying around or playing with their toys when they should have been finishing their homework, or told to eat their vegetables and to brush their teeth, children say their fathers are the 'worst parents ever.' obviously an outside observer will see that the child's judgement is founded on unwarranted pride and incomplete information, and children able to recognize that they are childishness and trust their fathers are able to understand in time the love their fathers show them.
Christ also calls the church His bride - and in the old testament God speaks of Israel as both His adopted daughter and as a wife he took in, who became a whore, but whom after justly punishing and cleansing her, He was willing against the prevailing worldly wisdom to take back. so His love is even more than a father to a child, but as a husband and a wife. this love we cannot understand until we accept His marriage proposal. the love between newlyweds or a couple wooing each other or engaged to be married isn't near the depth of the love a couple celebrating their 50th anniversary share. all the doubt and confusion and amazement of the early years turns into trust & unspeakable understanding & thankfulness as time passes by. so too with God and man, taking the initial steps requires faith & is done with trepidation and anticipation, and looking back through hard times and stress, we wouldn't trade it for the world.
That is the awesomeness of God and God's Mercy to us all.
It is a gift from God through Son's doing it for us
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Notice a gift has nothing to do with work. For if one has to work for it then it is not a gift
It is a gift from God through Son's doing it for us
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Notice a gift has nothing to do with work. For if one has to work for it then it is not a gift
Well one question popped into my head while reading this: why did god not make us more able to understand him? To keep us humble? But we are apparantly not humble anyway, so what was the point?
Of course i guess this is another "don't question and just accept" things... but where would we be if no one ever questioned anything? We would still be in the stone age. so i don't see why you should "not question and just accept"
and im sure people in the stone age thought it would be impossible to ever know as much as we know today. (like what that bright, yellow thing in the sky is)... And yes i know they did not use descriptive words like "bright" and "yellow" or any modern words at all ... Just making a point. but they were wrong. And some things have been questioned since the beggining of time and the answer was just discovered recently. So, who knows what we can understand if we questuon it long enough.
Of course i guess this is another "don't question and just accept" things... but where would we be if no one ever questioned anything? We would still be in the stone age. so i don't see why you should "not question and just accept"
and im sure people in the stone age thought it would be impossible to ever know as much as we know today. (like what that bright, yellow thing in the sky is)... And yes i know they did not use descriptive words like "bright" and "yellow" or any modern words at all ... Just making a point. but they were wrong. And some things have been questioned since the beggining of time and the answer was just discovered recently. So, who knows what we can understand if we questuon it long enough.
when you seek and worship Him, "everything you want in life" changes. you stop wanting things that please yourself, like money and pleasure and fame, and you start wanting things that please Him - you want to see His will done, you want to become more like Him, you want to increase His fame, and you want everyone else to experience the peace and joy that only He can give.
you become content with things that before you wanted to change, and you want to change things that before, you were content with.
the act of seeking and worshiping God transforms you! i bet @Arcynaculr you have changed too, just by asking these questions you ask and trying to find the answers. have things that used to be important to you faded away while you look for the truth?
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Well yea. Thats good if its the real truth that drives you and not just lies perceived as truth. i dont wanna be driven by lies. the hard part, in some cases, is determining which things are lies and which things are true. which is what im trying to do. and i havent determined that yet but i am gathering more information which is the key to discovering truth cuz even if you have some false information, you can discover true information that cancels the false stuff out. im sure everyone already knows this lol just sayin thats one of the multiple methods im using to help in my goals.
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