The Letter to the Romans...

Elin · Feb 10, 2014

Perhaps you could show where I stated that above.

But just to be sure you understand,
Jesus rose from the dead, not so he could take his physical blood into a physical sanctuary
to physically sprinkle it on physical things.

It was as the firstfruits of the resurrection of all believers,
and it served as proof that he was who he said he was, Christ the Redeemer of his people
from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) by forgiveness of their sin (Lk 1:77),
through faith in him (Jn 3:16, 18, 36).

Hoffco · Feb 10, 2014

Jh.Elin, Thanks sooo much for your SHORT, UNCONDEMNING, INSTRUCTIVE responce.! I REALLY felt LOVED by it. SORRY, I was very confused by your statement on Heb. 9:23 and your concept of the heavenly substance, I don't think we can fully comprehend the substance of heaven or of Jesus' resurrected body, the spiritual body. BUT, for me, I can not picture,Heb,7:25 "He always lives to make intercession for them". without His new body. Jesus intercession for us, as one of us, but raised from the dead, is done in His new body, not apart from it, Jh.20:17, in the very presence of the Father, in Heaven. By which, I mean, Jesus did not enter Heaven in His human spirit , but only after His body was raised and reunited to His human spirit, a new, spiritual body, YES, but, physical enough to eat. MEANWHILE, WE are Having very tring times In our Family, my wife's family, living with us, (8 to 10 persons) please pray for us. Love in Christ, Doug , Hoffco

Karraster · Feb 10, 2014

Hizikyah said:

Hizikyah, you are a man after Yahweh's heart! You remind me of the verse, to those who obey what truth they have, to them more truth will be given. Yah bless you brother!

Elin · Feb 10, 2014

Hoffco said:

We are agreed that Jesus' Spirit is united with his body in heaven making intercession for us.

And we are agreed that we don't have a clue about the nature of our resurrection bodies.

My point is that his Spirit was also in heaven prior to his resurrection, and not in the grave with his body.

And I will certainly present your needs in prayer before the throne of grace to our God and Father who supplies all our needs in Christ Jesus (Php 4:19).

Love,
Elin

Elin · Feb 11, 2014

So let's recap 25 principles from our tough sledding in Ro 1:1-6:4:

1) Grace was given to Paul to (call, thereby bringing about in others) obedience of faith. (1:5)

2) The gospel is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes, because it reveals
a righteousness from God, a free gift (5:17), that is through faith by grace, not through law-keeping.

Justification = righteousness = declared guiltless, given right standing before God.
The cause of justification (righteousness) is faith only.
The result of justification is sanctification, through the obedience of faith. (1:16-17, 3:31).

3) God's wrath is shown by giving men over to their sin, by judging (punishing) sin
with increased sin. (1:18)

4) God judges
according to truth (2:2), for those who hold the truth in unrighteousness,
according to deeds (2:6-11), for those who possess the Mosaic law, and
according to the light one has (2:12-15), for Gentiles who do not possess the Mosaic law. (2:2-16)

5) Jews had the advantage of the word of God and the law, but they were not
the saving advantage of true faith. (3:1-2)

6) Though Israel was unfaithful to God, God is faithful to his promise to punish sin
and unbelief. (3:3-5)

7) God cannot be unrighteous in bringing his wrath on unbelief, even if unbelief benefits
God by bringing out his righteousness more clearly, for that would contradict Scripture
which everywhere testifies that he is righteous and can do no wrong
(Dt 32:4; 2Ch 19:7; Job 34:10-11, 36:23; Ps 119:137; Eze 18:25; Da 4:37, 9:14). (3:6)

8) God has shut up all men in sin. (3:19)

9) God is both just in requiring penalty for sin, and the justifier by providing the payment
of the penalty. (3:26)

10) Righteousness through faith, apart from the law, has always been the teaching
of the OT (Ge 15:6). (3:28)

11) We do not "establish the law" by being made righteous according to it. That is anti-gospel.
We "establish the law" in the NT by establishing the right use of the law,
we don't overthrow the law, we establish its standing by fixing it on the right basis;
i.e., although we cannot be saved by it as a covenant, we submit to it in Christ's two
commandments (Mt 22:37-39), which are subject to the law of grace. (3:31)

12) Salvation is the forgiveness of sin,
which removes our guilt and God's wrath on it at the final judgment.
We are saved from the wrath of God at the final judgment, by forgiveness of our sin,
not by works of obedience. (4:8)

13) Circumcision was not an action (work) required to confirm faith.
Circumcision was a sign only, given as a seal to guarantee one's righteousness by faith,
apart from works. (4:11)

14) Those under the law cannot be heirs to the promise because
inheritance by law keeping makes faith worthless, and
law keeping effectively voids the promise, by disqualifying everyone and producing
only wrath. (4:14-15)

15) The promise can be guaranteed only if it is based on faith, because basing it on
law keeping can result only in wrath (Gal 3:10), it cannot result in fulfillment of the promise.

Righteousness by faith was guaranteed by the sign of circumcision (4:11), and the
promise is guaranteed by grace through faith (4:16).

16) True saving faith is the conviction of belief, which obeys. (4:20)

17) Jesus rose from the dead as the firstfruits of the resurrection of all believers,
as proof that he was who he said he was, Christ the Redeemer, of his people
from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) by forgiveness of their sin (Lk 1:77),
through faith in him (Jn 3:16, 18, 36).

The resurrection shows that Jesus' sacrifice (death) was accepted as atonement for sin (Ro 3:25) and,
therefore, we have, indeed, been justified (declared guiltless, given right standing before God) by his
atoning death.

Christ's blood was poured out (Lk 22:20) on the ground at the base of the cross (Jn 19:34, 36-37),
just as the animal's blood was poured out on the ground at the base of the altar
(Lev 4:7, 18, 25, 30, 34).

Christ was physically resurrected, not so he could take his physical blood into a physical sanctuary
to physically sprinkle it on physical things (no physical blood, it had been poured out on the ground).

The heavenly things (gospel graces for the redeemed) of Heb 9:23-24 were purified by his Spirit,
the Holy Spirit, when his work was finished, his Spirit departed at his death (Jn 19:30)
and returned to God, where the gospel graces for the redeemed were established by his atoning death.

And those graces are now applied by him in his living resurrected body, through his Spirit (Ro 8:27),
in the presence of God (Heb 9:24) where he ever lives to intercede for us (Ro 8:34; Heb 7:25).

Christ's death atoned for sin (Ro 3:25),
and his life now applies that atonement to the redeemed in justification by faith alone. (4:25)

18) We are justified by faith, apart from any other actions of obedience, as was Abraham (Ge 15:6).
(5:1)

19) We are saved. . .from the wrath of God at the final judgment, because we have been
justified (declared guiltless, given right standing before God) through faith in Christ's blood (Ro 3:25),
which is his atoning death. (5:9)

20) Since God saved us from his wrath through justification (declared guiltless, right standing
before God) by Christ's atoning death, he shall also save (sanctify) us through Christ's
unending life, who ever lives to intercede for us (Heb 7:25; Ro 8:34). (5:10)

21) Although sin was not taken into account between Adam and Moses
when there was no Mosaic law to transgress,
yet all mankind died as the result of sin (Ro 6:23).
So for what sin were all men held guilty and subject to death, when sin was not taken into account?
They were all held guilty of the sin of Adam. (5:12-17).

22) Just as the one act of trespass and disobedience of the first Adam made the many sinners
and resulted in their condemnation,
so the one act of obedience and righteousness of the second Adam made righteous and justified
the many.

Man was both made a sinner and made righteous, not because of what man did, but because of
what Adam and Christ did.

Man is born a sinner and unrighteous, because of Adam's sin "imputed" to him at conception (Ps 51:5).
Man is justified and made righteous because of Christ's righteousness "imputed" to him at rebirth.
(5:18-19)

23) Just as sin was increased by the law, so grace was increased by sin (5:20-21).

24) So in 5:12-21:

a) our own sinfulness is not the ground for our condemnation,
it is our guilt of Adam's sin that condemns us,
the very nature with which we are born (sinful) condemns us (Eph 2:3); and

b) our own obedience/holiness is not the ground for our justification,
Jesus Christ is the only ground, through faith alone,
which is the burden of Ro 4 continued through Ro 5. (5:12-21)

25) Baptism is the when and how of our death to sin.
When: in our union with Christ in baptism, which is a union in the benefits of his death.
How: by entering into the purpose of his death - to redeem us from sin,
- - - -by conforming to the model of his death - who died for sin,
- - - -by being raised with Christ - to die to sin. (6:1-4)

Hoffco · Feb 11, 2014

Good morning to all, 2:18am. in the Philippines, Praying for Yahshua, I think he must be very busy; We pray you will be able to return soon and con't our study. Please don't get discouraged over our "rabbit" trails we have been on during your absence. I see this as a good thing; But, looking forward to you next post. Meanwhile, I don't like my PC, it is making bold type, against will, it has a mind of its own. I think of it as a "conspiracy" of Satan against me. LOL Sooo, I will post. God bless ya all. Hoffco

Hoffco · Feb 11, 2014

To Elin, My apology for reading tooomuch into you words, concerning Jesus' spirit activity during His death. This is part of my error in general conversation, I do this very often, and it drives my wife crazy. I over react and causes division in the family. I do this in our church also, and it drives some away. I do have a hand full of faithful church friends who love me and put up with me and I always ask their forgiveness. I think it is like being "shell shocked" from battling the enemy for sooomany yrs. I have very strong biblical convictions that I will not change, They have been formed over 52 yrs of walking with Jesus. But I would gladly alter them, IF, someone can convince me from the Bible ONLY, that I am in error. LOVE to all, Hoffco

Elin · Feb 11, 2014

Hoffco said:

To Elin, My apology for reading tooomuch into you words, concerning Jesus' spirit activity during His death. This is part of my error in general conversation, I do this very often, and it drives my wife crazy. I over react and causes division in the family. I do this in our church also, and it drives some away. I do have a hand full of faithful church friends who love me and put up with me and I always ask their forgiveness. I think it is like being "shell shocked" from battling the enemy for sooomany yrs. I have very strong biblical convictions that I will not change, They have been formed over 52 yrs of walking with Jesus. But I would gladly alter them, IF, someone can convince me from the Bible ONLY, that I am in error. LOVE to all, Hoffco

Not everyone's brain is hard wired the same.

We get to live with it.

Love you,
Elin

homwardbound · Feb 12, 2014

I think this to be a good reminder:
There is no conflict in the Spirit of God, only truth, with absolute peace. All conflict is born in the mind of the flesh, includinf each of us in our new creations conflict with others and God. The Spiritual warfare.
Remembering our warfare is Spiritual not carnal. Not carnal if we reckon ourselves dead to flesh sin, otherwise it is as well carnal battle too, therefore I die Daily with Christ, and ask Father to separate error from truth.
Hoffco, Elin and all, bottom line God does just love us, and am glad for each of us to say what we think and feel turning it all over to God to straighten it all out
Love Howard

Hoffco · Feb 12, 2014

To Homwardbound, I have an understanding of what you are proposing, suggesting; But the ones who did live like you, were women, Some were pastors' wives, and keep a quite, claim spirit , not trying to boss people around. Others were old men who did not care how things were done or what people believed; But the pastors were active in engaging me in debate and opposition to my ways of thinking. And did not want me talking and upsetting the "apple cart" their rule over the flock. I was always the cause for division in the church,so I had to leave. When I was younger, I was able to get an old church to pastor and was in my glory, very happy , but had to be a loner, now., I am not so happy being a loner, I would like to be accepted by a denomination. I am seeking a licence to preach by the C&MA of the Philippines. I am such a defender of the faith, I may not be acceptable with any group. The fact that my new wife is so bossy, just adds to my frustration. But, we men are called to rule our homes and churches. I have a personal question for you, are you in any role of leadership in a church? Are you single? Do you have to rule over anyone? How can you be so, laid back, and just let things roll as they will, and not take charge of your life and make things happen. How do you just let God do everything and just roll with the punch, all the time. You give the impression that your christian life just "happens"and you don't do any thing to direct your life. You just "let go and let God" do all the work. To me, that I so contrary to what I am told to do in the Bible, to take charge and live life under God direction, yes, but make godly decisions for myself and the good of others. For me, the christian life is a battle , spiritual, yes, but engaging people all the time,and trusting God to work, or running for my life, if he doesn't protect me. I do use to much anger in working with others, I know, and do try to control this. I make too many quick moves, words, and should be slower to speak. I have to undo a lot. It seems to be a lifetime pattern as I have had to "fight the good fight of faith, and "lay hold of eternal life." This gets to be messy work, at times. The rubber hits the road hard at times. But, praise God , I have always been able to walk away and re coup. Love and patience with all, ??? Hoffco

homwardbound · Feb 13, 2014

Hoffco, no matter what: you are noticing God's unconditional love, and delivering it as conditional. It seems you are noticing self in the midst and your commands as per what interpretation you have learned from others and self. And this is good for you to be shown truth over error, for if you did not have the want to serve God, you would not come to understand God's perfect love just for you personally

Hoffco, I was in battle as you are. I kept fighting the good fight, even tried to not sin, and all I found was me sinning and arguing all the more the harder I tried. Always upset over not doing something that I did not want to do

[h=3]Romans 7:14-17[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]14 [/SUP]We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [SUP]15[/SUP]I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.[SUP]16 [/SUP]And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
Romans 7:5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.

Romans 7:6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

What binds us? is it not Law, literally any Law I have put on me to do, I have put undo stress on me to do it, such as my wife has to obey me, or my Children and so on and so forth it goes. Will my wife always obey me? Yes I am married, children grown.
Will I you or anyone here on earth in unredeemed flesh obey God perfectly ever? Is our flesh made to do that?

Is Paul showing us the difference of walking in flesh commands and Spirit of God worship? Does or has God come through Christ to release us from stress and worry?
Matthew 6:27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?
Luke 12:25 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life?

Does not being under Law any Law put one in worry and stress, bring forth doubt, and arguing, complaining, not seeing the future yet trying to bring it about as good by doing good? Is this not what the world teaches?

Okay to let go and let God? It is a final decision to say to God:
I give up God, I have tried to do your will, be like Jesus as best I can, and I can't do it. I get mad, frustrated yell, scream, try to control others and show them your commands and no one listens. I am done Father, "I" can't do it. It is killing me, I want to do it right but continue to fail, I am and have stood the good fight have "I" not?

Yes Hoffco, we are in a war of the battle of flesh-self and the world to do what is right, when no flesh can be perfect, It can act perfect and try to be, but it just simply can't and God waits for us to give up this battle of flesh against Spirit trying to behave, because it can't as you are so well finding out, wanting to be accepted not seeing God has (past tense) already accepted you in the beloved. (Eph. 1:13) Christ Jesus, it is so not easy to fathom that God through Son did do it all for you, so for you to be able to walk in the newness of life in God's Spirit by the resurrected Christ, not the flesh Christ. It is a gift to you from God personally in God's Spirit.
We are taught in our flesh to not give up, to fight the good fight, never raise our white flag to the enemy are we not?
And so we get so caught up in the war and war and war and war, never seeing the war as already won by God through Son. We say we see this and turn right around and do not love like God does, by working to keep it, and then what comes? loneliness, frustration, not feeling like you belong, sin and failure after failure, anger madness and sin again, something you did not want to do we do, being put under Law whether the Mosaic or our own wanting to be perfect.
So I know you have heard give up, but our flesh does not want to, it wants to be noticed, loved and cherished, knows this is not possible yet continues to want the control to make it. You know we fail, no problem, we ask God to forgive us all over again and again and again, yet we continue to do that thing we just don't want to do, and just can't see why?
It is because we our own flesh desire is in the way of God doing God's work through us, that God wants to do through us but won't unless we agree with God to do the works of righteousness through us. I call this an exchanged life my life, for his life to live through us, no longer just in us.
Here is a sight that might help about being co-crucified with Christ, check it out if it is put on your heart
Praying all this might help in your walk to know such an amazing loving Father

F. J. Huegel:Bone of His Bone.Table of Contents

[h=1]THE CHRISTIAN LIFE A PARTICIPATION NOT AN IMITATION[/h] [h=2]CHAPTER I[/h]
0NE cannot make a study of the New Testament without experiencing something of the nature of a shock, in view of the glaring difference between the Christian life as we are wont to live it, and the ideal of the Master. The disheartening incongruities, and the grievous contradictions are so painfully evident, that even those who have only a superficial knowledge of the Saviour's Word-yea, one dare say, even those who have never looked into the pages of the New Testament-are shocked. What little faith they may have, is shaken.
When one holds up before the picture of the Christian life as set forth by the Apostles, that which today goes under the name, one staggers. The emaciated body of a dying friend-not to say his corpse-could not stand in more violent contrast with him who in the days of health and vigour walked at our side.
It is not my object to pick to pieces the modern Christian. I have no quarrel with the Church. I am not pretending to play the role of an iconoclast.

Hoffco · Feb 13, 2014

to homwardbound, thanks for your good words of instruction. I will pray over them. I have the view point that life is a holy warfare between the good and the evil in me. I don't have any trouble with the big, letter of the law of God sins, it is the little sins that trip me up so much. The normal christian life is a life of of peace and war, resting in Christ and battling for Christ. I trip up mainly because I will not trust God more to work things out for my good, I must be involved in the working out of my salvation with fear and trembling. I can rest only when I am active in my faith of living for God's glory. I take the command of God seriously, "to be holy as God is holy" And as Jesus said , my heart has to be better than the Scribes and Pharisees if I want to go to heaven. I know God has given me a righteous heart and I want to follow it in all my living, to the glory of God. I am very concerned with doing the "spirit of the law" and I confess all the times I brake the spirit of the law, which is love and justice and mercy. I hate it when preachers make too much of the cross work of Jesus, to the neglect of the present work of Jesus in our hearts. The cross work can not save with out the present calling of God in our lives. I have a very biblical assurance of my salvation based on God's work in me and my faith and works for Him, as 1st, Jh. teaches so clearly, as well as the whole Bible. Love to all, Hoffco

homwardbound · Feb 14, 2014

Hoffco, yes you are at:
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

God moving you in God's timing as you learn from your trying so hard, and being frustrated over not being able to be perfect ever:

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Then when you see this you will do nothing but just trust God. Anger won't be an issue anymore, others responses in anger won't be an issue anymore. Being so busy after entering into:
Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

One gets so preoccupied in God's amazing love given through Christ, (imputed) there is less and less time for sin as one's old mindset is depleted from trying to stop sin, from a hearer to a doer by Faith in the finished work of God through Son Christ

He stops sowing (thinking) of the flesh and it sin possibility, that brings forth death according to Gal. 6:8, and thus sows (thinks) as in being thankful to God by the Spirit of God given to him, (imputed) (en grafted) a gift.
A gift is not a gift if I personally have to work for it, if I trust and not work, trusting God, God does the work through me and I can rest while at work, therefore I at work where God gets all the credit

Many people start out sweeping the house clean and are not filled yet, yet they are coming to the end of the energy of their own strength to make a final choice as to believe 100% or not in all God has already done for us before we were ever born

I see you are tired, and the devil wants to cause you to return to yuor old life in giving up, using all kinds of excuses to convince you that it is not worth it, when it is

Luke 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

So ask God for God's Spirit to keep you safe and clean and secure in God forever.

That is what is available daily to us being in unredeemed flesh and is why I die daily to self and this world

Matthew 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mark 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

The above verses are what Christ did to the enemy bounded and stripped him of his goods through the cross, includes the resurrected Christ, he dies no more, took the keys from the devil to Heaven and Hell
Now he awaits for us to deny the self as well, by free will choice, at the right hand of Father, where we casn enter the throne of grace in confidence anytime we need and for me I need all the time to never leave the throne of grace. I do not want to ever leave upstairs. Yet most of us have been taught to go upstairs and get a drink, and come right back down and bet beat up some more in this world that we are to not be a part of anymore by Faith.
I, as God just love you Hoffco sand anyone else reading here as I ramble on and on, love is the greatest as in 1 Cor. 13:4-13

Hoffco · Feb 14, 2014

To homwardbound, I do believe you have a heart for God's truth, and the seed of real faith; But I don't think your mind has caught up to your heart and will. I think this is the great error of Satan's lie that Christians are being taken captive by today. It must be overcome "by the renewing of the mind". Rom.12:2 most, just don't know and won't learn the great depth of truth of Rom. 1-11, so their minds can not control their hearts and wills, in regard to their teaching, so they teach herecy; My problem is: my mind knows the deep truths of God, but I won't let my spirit, heart be controlled by my mind. And I understand , I am sinning against what I know is the right reaction I must have to my Brethren., I don't want to love bad preachers who twist the truth, I want to hate them, for their evil teaching. But I need to love them But hate their preaching. This is very hard for me, because they have ruinned my whole life's vocation of preaching the Gospel in a fulltime ministry. Love to all, Hoffco

homwardbound · Feb 15, 2014

Hoffco said:

Thank you for your honesty in how and why you feel, I am glad because i know God is about to reveal this all to you and all to come together and be satisfied no matter what way it turns out, For I see you are a work in progress the same as me, growing up unto and into trusting Father and Son 100% in all things good or bad that happen, knowing Father said Father will never leave us nor forsake us. No one can snatch us out of his hand and no weapon formed against may ever prosper
So in trust, I have been being taught to trust, thus be content in all things.
Another thing Christ said to his disciples is: when they came to him and complained about others casting out devils in his name (Chris's) Christ replied with a divided kingdom can't stand, if Satan is casting out Satan and to glory in the fact that Christ the savior is being preached
Also Paul from prison, spoke of those that preach sincerely and those that do not, that he learned to glory in both for Christ the savior is being preached. Seeing those that Do want to know God as to me you do and do know as I see God is teaching you as you go throuigh this adversity you are going through.
Kind of like Peter when Christ said to him: Peter the devil wishes to sift you like Wheat, put your name ther, my name and all that want to know Christ in place of Peter's name
Then he says, but I (Christ) pray for you faith, and when you return (come through) the troubles you will strengthen the Brethren
Where as the enemy preys for us, to keep us working in the energy of our own flesh, and not see the new life here today in the Spirit of truth, God the Father of Christ thought the death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and deliverence at Pentecost
Thanks Hoffco, keep busting through the picket line of flesh and the Spirit of God, and I will too Brother
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Hoffco · Feb 19, 2014

I keep praying for Yahshua to have time to con't his outline commentary. Meanwhile, it is very helpful to me to get the prayers of you all, especially homwardbound, thanks. I think the paradoxes or dual sided trues of the Bible is very hard for unlearned christians to get a handle on. Falsely educated Preachers are so one sided, trying to K.I.S.S." keep it simple stupid". This is such a trick of the Devil. The Bible is not simple. It takes years to master, and we never can reach Perfection in this life, even with the help of the abiding Spirit of God. But, perfection is always presented as our unattainable goal. "Be you holy as I am Holy" This is our personal holiness, not Christ "imputed righteousness" received by faith. The "imparted righteousness" is the new birth and then we enter into the personal pursuit of knowing God and the Way of holiness, in Faith , with grace, so we can produce fruit unto eternal life. Today the new birth is treated as a "straw" man doctrine of no good substance, of no good value for our personal living. This is soooo shameful to Grace. Grace is taught as a "free gift" of forgiveness with no relevance, power to live, out our holy life. . Sooo, We need second work of grace to make us holy. It is a wicked heresy, the "carnal christian" heresy. I was just was confronted with this heresy at a regional forum of the denomination I am associated with,but not a member. I could not sign their statement of faith without a note of reservation. Their founder left the Westminster confession of Faith and created a false doctrine of salvation , "Faith only", and created a second work of grace teaching to make his false converts holy in life. I would like a "home" denomination to be ordained by; this one is looking very ifeee. please pray, Love to all, Hoffco

homwardbound · Feb 20, 2014

Hoofco, done Brother, Yes grace of God was never meant to be taken for granted at all, ever. And yes there are those that teach a lascivious grace, in taking it for granted and using it to get away with sin. Which is what makes it very hard to see, and break on through to the other side, being in Spirit with God in Heaven here and now, by Faith. Actions and reactions are the fruit that tell others if God is their savior or not, especially if they are rested and content in all things, as Paul who was Saul has tried so hard to tell us all, that God just love us, please respond in thanksgiving and praise as King David did in Psalm 100:4, and Job who held on and never denied God as I see you doing also. And Job said in Job 19:25
Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

As he was going through much tragedy, and Christ himself went through the most ever for you and me and all, if we would believe without a doubt, we would be doers of the word of love and Mercy which is God to the fullest
Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

You are seeing clear, yet your flesh is fighting you in anger over what hypocrisy you see and have seen. So maybe take this next set of verses to heart:?

[h=3]Matthew 10:16-20[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; [SUP]18 [/SUP]and ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

And I love your endings where you say love to all, you see, just flesh of others is bothering your own flesh and that as I see is trying to be in the way and sometimes is and other times not. The battle of flesh and Spirit
Love you Brother as God does forever and ever

Hoffco · Feb 21, 2014

Thanks, homwardbound for you prayers and encouragement. We just spent a couple of hours with the superintendent of this Denomination today He is a very kind, warm hearted person, I have known him for 6 yrs. He assured me that he personal is on my side ,all the way to ordination, even if the board rejects me, he is for me and backs our ministry. It was a good week, with confirmation from several people. Love to all. Hoffco Looking for Yahshua!

homwardbound · Feb 22, 2014

Just hold on as led, and all will unfold in God's timing to be what God wants, and he wants others to see his Love beyond measure
I am elated for you Brother, and am patient in God for you

Elin · Feb 27, 2014

Recap of 25 gospel principles from Ro 1:1-6:4:

1) Grace was given to Paul to (call, thereby bringing about in others) obedience of faith. (1:5)

2) The gospel is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes, because it reveals
a righteousness from God, a free gift (5:17), that is through faith by grace, not through law-keeping.

Justification = righteousness = declared guiltless, given right standing before God.
The cause of justification (righteousness) is faith only.
The result of justification is sanctification, through the obedience of faith. (1:16-17, 3:31).

3) God's wrath is shown by giving men over to their sin, by judging (punishing) sin
with increased sin. (1:18)

4) God judges
according to truth (2:2), for those who hold the truth in unrighteousness,
according to deeds (2:6-11), for those who possess the Mosaic law, and
according to the light one has (2:12-15), for Gentiles who do not possess the Mosaic law. (2:2-16)

5) Jews had the advantage of the word of God and the law, but they were not
the saving advantage of true faith. (3:1-2)

6) Though Israel was unfaithful to God, God is faithful to his promise to punish sin
and unbelief. (3:3-5)

7) God cannot be unrighteous in bringing his wrath on unbelief, even if unbelief benefits
God by bringing out his righteousness more clearly, for that would contradict Scripture
which everywhere testifies that he is righteous and can do no wrong
(Dt 32:4; 2Ch 19:7; Job 34:10-11, 36:23; Ps 119:137; Eze 18:25; Da 4:37, 9:14). (3:6)

8) God has shut up all men in sin. (3:19)

9) God is both just in requiring penalty for sin, and the justifier in providing the payment
of the penalty. (3:26)

10) Righteousness through faith, apart from the law, has always been the teaching
of the OT (Ge 15:6). (3:28)

11) We do not "establish the law" by being made righteous according to it. That is anti-gospel.
We "establish the law" in the NT by establishing the right use of the law,
we don't overthrow the law, we establish its standing by setting it on the right basis;
i.e., although we cannot be saved by it as a covenant, we submit to it in Christ's two
commandments (Mt 22:37-39), which are subject to the law of grace. (3:31)

12) Salvation is the forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77),
which removes our guilt and God's wrath on it at the final judgment.
We are saved from the wrath of God at the final judgment, by forgiveness of our sin,
not by works of obedience. (4:8)

13) Circumcision was not an action (work) required to confirm faith.
Circumcision was a sign only, given as a seal to guarantee one's righteousness by faith,
apart from works. (4:11)

14) Those under the law cannot be heirs to the promise because
inheritance by law keeping makes faith worthless, and
law keeping effectively voids the promise, by disqualifying everyone and producing
only wrath. (4:14-15)

15) The promise can be guaranteed only if it is based on faith, because basing it on
law keeping can result only in wrath (Gal 3:10), it cannot result in fulfillment of the promise.

Righteousness by faith was guaranteed by the sign of circumcision (4:11), and the
promise is guaranteed by grace through faith (4:16).

16) True saving faith is the conviction of belief, which obeys. (4:20)

17) Jesus rose from the dead as the firstfruits of the resurrection of all believers,
as proof that he was who he said he was, Christ the Redeemer, of his people
from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) by forgiveness of their sin (Lk 1:77),
through faith in him (Jn 3:16, 18, 36).

The resurrection shows that Jesus' sacrifice (death) was accepted as atonement for sin (Ro 3:25) and,
therefore, we have, indeed, been justified (declared guiltless, given right standing before God) by his
atoning death.

Christ's blood was poured out (Lk 22:20) on the ground at the base of the cross (Jn 19:34, 36-37),
just as the animal's blood was poured out on the ground at the base of the altar
(Lev 4:7, 18, 25, 30, 34).

Christ was physically resurrected, not so he could take his physical blood into a physical sanctuary
to physically sprinkle it on physical things (no physical blood, it had been poured out on the ground).

The heavenly things (gospel graces for the redeemed) of Heb 9:23-24 were purified by his Spirit,
the Holy Spirit, when his work was finished, his Spirit departed at his death (Jn 19:30)
and returned to God, where the gospel graces for the redeemed were established by his atoning death.

And those graces are now applied by him in his living resurrected body, through his Spirit (Ro 8:27),
in the presence of God (Heb 9:24) where he ever lives to intercede for us (Ro 8:34; Heb 7:25).

Christ's death atoned for sin (Ro 3:25),
and his life now applies that atonement to the redeemed in justification by faith alone. (4:25)

18) We are justified by faith, apart from any other actions of obedience, as was Abraham (Ge 15:6).
(5:1)

19) We are saved. . .from the wrath of God at the final judgment, because we have been
justified (declared guiltless, given right standing before God) through faith in Christ's blood (Ro 3:25),
which is his atoning death. (5:9)

20) Since God saved us from his wrath through justification (declared guiltless, right standing
before God) by Christ's atoning death, he shall also save (sanctify) us through Christ's
unending life, who ever lives to intercede for us (Heb 7:25; Ro 8:34). (5:10)

21) Although sin was not taken into account between Adam and Moses
when there was no Mosaic law to transgress,
yet all mankind died as the result of sin (Ro 6:23).
So for what sin were all men held guilty and subject to death, when sin was not taken into account?
They were all held guilty of the sin of Adam. (5:12-17).

22) Just as the one act of trespass and disobedience of the first Adam made the many sinners
and resulted in their condemnation,
so the one act of obedience and righteousness of the second Adam made righteous and justified
the many.

Man was both made a sinner and made righteous, not because of what man did, but because of
what Adam and Christ did.

Man is born a sinner and unrighteous, because of Adam's sin "imputed" to him at conception (Ps 51:5).
Man is justified and made righteous because of Christ's righteousness "imputed" to him at rebirth.
(5:18-19)

23) Just as sin was increased by the law, so grace was increased by sin (5:20-21).

24) So in 5:12-21:

a) our own sin/sinfulness is not the ground for our condemnation,
it is our guilt of Adam's sin that condemns us (Ps 51:5),
the very nature with which we are born (sinful) condemns us (Eph 2:3); and

b) our own obedience/holiness is not the ground for our justification,
it is the righteousness of Jesus Christ's obedience to death that justifies us, through faith alone,
which is the burden of Ro 4 and Ro 5. (5:12-21)

25) Baptism is the when and how of our death to sin.
When: in our union with Christ in baptism, which is a union in the benefits of his death.
How: by entering into the purpose of his death - to redeem us from sin,
- - - -by conforming to the model of his death - who died for sin,
- - - -by being raised with Christ - to die to sin. (6:1-4)

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