Is the right baptism necessary for salvation?
- Thread starter Josh321
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
P
Nice copy and paste Brad. You didn't answer.
I said nothing about past sins being charged against someone again.
Why are we warned not to sin? Why is that necessary for someone that is saved?
In the 12th chapter of Hebrews Paul said "let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us"...........What do you think happens if we don't? I mean we are permanently saved, why would Paul bother telling believers such a thing?
Again, in verses 24 & 25, Paul says "And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. ............See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven"
Why would he tell us not to refuse if it was something we couldn't do in the first place?
How much clearer does it have to be for you? Of course you can't refuse "God's very own act of imputing of my sin to His Son on the cross and do away with that imputation", but you can refuse to accept it. That is ludicrous to think that someone will be saved whether they want to or not. I gave my stepdaughter a car. Free. Nice car. She refused to drive it. Let it sit on the curb 'til it was towed a year later for out of state plates. Her aunt tried to get me to take it back. No, I said, it is hers to do as she wants with it, I gave it to her and it isn't mine to take back. That is exactly what God does for us. We will have to answer for it, much like the parable of the talents. The gift is given it is yours. Throw it away. Bury it. Waste it, but you will answer for what you did with it.Do you not believe every man has a right to make a choice? We have people on this very forum that claim atheism. They reject outright the existence of God. Are you telling me those people are going to heaven anyway? Is there really such a thing as hell, or is God simply trying to get us to behave before He takes all of us to heaven?
I said nothing about past sins being charged against someone again.
Why are we warned not to sin? Why is that necessary for someone that is saved?
In the 12th chapter of Hebrews Paul said "let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us"...........What do you think happens if we don't? I mean we are permanently saved, why would Paul bother telling believers such a thing?
Again, in verses 24 & 25, Paul says "And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. ............See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven"
Why would he tell us not to refuse if it was something we couldn't do in the first place?
How much clearer does it have to be for you? Of course you can't refuse "God's very own act of imputing of my sin to His Son on the cross and do away with that imputation", but you can refuse to accept it. That is ludicrous to think that someone will be saved whether they want to or not. I gave my stepdaughter a car. Free. Nice car. She refused to drive it. Let it sit on the curb 'til it was towed a year later for out of state plates. Her aunt tried to get me to take it back. No, I said, it is hers to do as she wants with it, I gave it to her and it isn't mine to take back. That is exactly what God does for us. We will have to answer for it, much like the parable of the talents. The gift is given it is yours. Throw it away. Bury it. Waste it, but you will answer for what you did with it.Do you not believe every man has a right to make a choice? We have people on this very forum that claim atheism. They reject outright the existence of God. Are you telling me those people are going to heaven anyway? Is there really such a thing as hell, or is God simply trying to get us to behave before He takes all of us to heaven?
E
No. there is one thing you have to accept.
God chose all people who are saved before the foundation of the world.
It means, either calvin was right (Which I do not agree with) or that God knew before the world was created who would be saved and who would not be saved, and chose to save that person.
He chose by foreknowledge, If God knew you before the world was created, Do you not think he also knew everything you would ever do?
You want us to believe God will give us eternal life. KNOWING we will one day walk away from him in a life of Sin? How then can he chose us before the foundation? Did he forget we were going to turn from him, and get fooled, and all of a sudden sao, "Oh Myself", I can;t handle that sinful life, I better take my gift back. (In other words God becomes an indian giver)
Sorry, This is not the god of love, nor is it an omniscient God. this God would be no better than a pagan God. ,
God chose all people who are saved before the foundation of the world.
It means, either calvin was right (Which I do not agree with) or that God knew before the world was created who would be saved and who would not be saved, and chose to save that person.
He chose by foreknowledge, If God knew you before the world was created, Do you not think he also knew everything you would ever do?
You want us to believe God will give us eternal life. KNOWING we will one day walk away from him in a life of Sin? How then can he chose us before the foundation? Did he forget we were going to turn from him, and get fooled, and all of a sudden sao, "Oh Myself", I can;t handle that sinful life, I better take my gift back. (In other words God becomes an indian giver)
Sorry, This is not the god of love, nor is it an omniscient God. this God would be no better than a pagan God. ,
E
Yep it is. Backsliding leads to
1. A loss of blessings from the father
2. A chastening from the father
3. A life unhappiness and pain.
what it does not lead to is being kicked out of Gods family,
We were not given a spirit of fear, why do you want to live in fear. when God says we are not to live in fear? Your gospel is not good news, it is no better than any pagan, or religious gospel of works.
1. A loss of blessings from the father
2. A chastening from the father
3. A life unhappiness and pain.
what it does not lead to is being kicked out of Gods family,
We were not given a spirit of fear, why do you want to live in fear. when God says we are not to live in fear? Your gospel is not good news, it is no better than any pagan, or religious gospel of works.
hey brother phil notice how life and death is in complete opposite right saying you salvation can be lost if you back slid is like saying that a sinner will be saved if they go to church and live a good life, do you see what i'm trying to say? no matter what if someone does not have christ and they live a good perfect life they will not be saved because of that, because they still abiding in death, well it's sht same thing brother if your abiding in life, Sin cannot make you lose your salvation or if you back slid, you will still have to go back to God eventually because you would be living a life of depression and you will have no choice but to go back to God and as EG said God will chasten you, would a father just watch his child mis behaving and not discipline him?
lets look at the scene as it unfolds:
John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Here, Nicodemus did not know what was 'Born again", he likened it unto entering the second time into his mother's womb. lets continue...
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Notice here that Jesus says "Water" and "Spirit" - emphasize the word "and".
Peter later gave that same formula...
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
When a pregnant women is in the hospital room giving birth, and the baby comes forth, that room is filled with sound, and movement, and life. The baby is moving and crying, life was brought forth. That is the Physical Birth.
Likewise, since the day of Pentecost, when we are born of the spirit, we are filled and speak in tongues and prophesy, whereby we are crying "Abba Father". That is born again, born of the spirit. When we are born of the spirit the Bible way, there is movement and sound and life...
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
[2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
[13] Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
[14] But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
[15] For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
[16] But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
[18] And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
When a baby is born according to the flesh, there is movement and sound and life.
Likewise, when a baby is born of the spirit, there is movement and sound and life!
John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Here, Nicodemus did not know what was 'Born again", he likened it unto entering the second time into his mother's womb. lets continue...
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Notice here that Jesus says "Water" and "Spirit" - emphasize the word "and".
Peter later gave that same formula...
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
When a pregnant women is in the hospital room giving birth, and the baby comes forth, that room is filled with sound, and movement, and life. The baby is moving and crying, life was brought forth. That is the Physical Birth.
Likewise, since the day of Pentecost, when we are born of the spirit, we are filled and speak in tongues and prophesy, whereby we are crying "Abba Father". That is born again, born of the spirit. When we are born of the spirit the Bible way, there is movement and sound and life...
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
[2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
[13] Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
[14] But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
[15] For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
[16] But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
[18] And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
When a baby is born according to the flesh, there is movement and sound and life.
Likewise, when a baby is born of the spirit, there is movement and sound and life!
E
lol. Ok. Keep thinking that.
Peter does not say what you think, the greek destroys your thought.
As for John, Again, Nicodemous would have no idea Jesus was talking about baptism. You have to make so many assumptions to take water to mean baptism,
Again, John 3: 16 Jesu told him how to be born again. He did not mention baptism. Your inserting a definition where it is not intended. or even insinuated.
There was no delivery room in Jesus day, All birth is preceded by water breaking, Even nicdemous understood that to re-enter his mothers womb would mean he would have to re-enter the water.
lol. ok wow, now your way out there. Keep believing this. Your tryign to earn your salvation. Not have God save you. Good luck with that.
Peter does not say what you think, the greek destroys your thought.
As for John, Again, Nicodemous would have no idea Jesus was talking about baptism. You have to make so many assumptions to take water to mean baptism,
Again, John 3: 16 Jesu told him how to be born again. He did not mention baptism. Your inserting a definition where it is not intended. or even insinuated.
There was no delivery room in Jesus day, All birth is preceded by water breaking, Even nicdemous understood that to re-enter his mothers womb would mean he would have to re-enter the water.
lol. ok wow, now your way out there. Keep believing this. Your tryign to earn your salvation. Not have God save you. Good luck with that.
P
If that is what you think I said you're not paying attention. We can reject it. It can't be taken away from us. God promised it to us, and it is ours IF we accept it.
Are you your own free moral agent? Do you have a choice in this world? It is our to use, to let it sit and stagnate, to throw away. What part of the parable of the talents don't you folks understand? A gift that will not be withdrawn, but does not have to be used in the intended manner.
Are you your own free moral agent? Do you have a choice in this world? It is our to use, to let it sit and stagnate, to throw away. What part of the parable of the talents don't you folks understand? A gift that will not be withdrawn, but does not have to be used in the intended manner.
E
This does not make sense. One has to accept it in the first place to get it. So once they are saved, They have already done this.
Again, your not making sense. Did the person have faith in Christ or not? Did he repent or not? Did he accept Gods gift or not? If he did all three
1. he HAS (not might have) eternal life
2. He has an inheritance in heaven reserved for him
3. He has the seal of the spirit, which is the guarantee of his salvation until the day of redemption (ressurection day)
4. He has been justified freely by the grace of God
5. He has passed from death to life (been born again)
6. He has the hope of eternal life (which God, who can not lie) promised before time began
7. He has the promise, that God, WHo began a good work in him, will continue it until the day of Christ.
I can go on and on of all the promises God states belongs to the person once saved.
So how can you tell me any of these can be lost? If they can, God lied, and we have no hope, but in ourselves, and there is no hope in us.
Again, your not making sense. Did the person have faith in Christ or not? Did he repent or not? Did he accept Gods gift or not? If he did all three
1. he HAS (not might have) eternal life
2. He has an inheritance in heaven reserved for him
3. He has the seal of the spirit, which is the guarantee of his salvation until the day of redemption (ressurection day)
4. He has been justified freely by the grace of God
5. He has passed from death to life (been born again)
6. He has the hope of eternal life (which God, who can not lie) promised before time began
7. He has the promise, that God, WHo began a good work in him, will continue it until the day of Christ.
I can go on and on of all the promises God states belongs to the person once saved.
So how can you tell me any of these can be lost? If they can, God lied, and we have no hope, but in ourselves, and there is no hope in us.