SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISM

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L

Laodicea

Guest
#41
It seems that in Hebrew it is evenings and mornings in which would mean 1150 days for what it is worth....and not that it changes the disagreement that you have with ABMF......
I have heard this and studied this and disagree with this. A day consists of an evening and a morning. It is 2300 days. There is no explanation given in Daniel 8 regarding the 2300 days. The angel in Daniel 9 starts with 'consider the vision' There is no vision given in Daniel 9 so it is referring to an earlier unexplained vision and since this is about time then the vision to consider would also be about time.

The angel in Daniel 9 says 70 weeks are determined upon thy people. The word determined means cut off from something. Since this is a time prophecy then the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 are cut of from a larger time prophecy, the 2300 days of Daniel 8.
 
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P

Pilgrim

Guest
#42
That my friend is where you are wrong. She said that when the anti-christ appears and forces worship in a particular way, than it will be considered the mark of the beast. Not now. And if it doesn`t happen that way, than so be it. Many question the rapture as well but doesn`t mean they are a cult for believing it or if it doesn`t happen. I suppose many believe they have the whole bible figured out to a T and need not learn anything more. God forbid! You are reading into things with an offensive spirit. Furthermore, if you are so worried about what other people say, than I suggest doing what Christ did and that is turn the other cheek because when we do things His way, we have victory. If we are secure in the Lord and bearing the fruits of His spirit, we need not worry about anything else but sharing the gift of His salvation despite what others do or say
 
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Pilgrim

Guest
#43
my comment is to dan :)
 
D

danschance

Guest
#44
Definitely looks as if most believe what they google and are misguided on many facts. I attend an adventist congregation and they have never condemned or gossiped about other churches that love and stand for Jesus because that is not the way :)


Have a good day
They just claim those who go to church on Sunday have committed the greatest offense towards God by recieving the mark of the beast. That is the same as claiming they have no chance of being saved.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#45
They just claim those who go to church on Sunday have committed the greatest offense towards God by recieving the mark of the beast. That is the same as claiming they have no chance of being saved.
It is talking about the last days not now, when the mark of the beast is enforced. No one has the mark of the beast now.
 
P

Pilgrim

Guest
#46
Jesus after being beaten, spat upon, cursed at and nailed to a cross, spoke not an offensive word. That is wow!! That is who I abide in and want to show the image of
 
D

danschance

Guest
#47
It is talking about the last days not now, when the mark of the beast is enforced. No one has the mark of the beast now.
I would agree that the mark of the beast is when the antichrist is in operation. Yet I have read SDAers on this forum directly claim Sunday church attendance is the mark of the beast with no reference to the tribulation. I am sure you have heard that as well.

Can you find a reference to tribulation or mark of the beast below?
Proof the official doctrine of the Seventh-day Adventist churches is that the Mark of the beast is those who worship on Sunday.

  1. "Sunday-keeping must be the mark of the beast." ... "The reception of his mark must be something that involves the greatest offense that can be committed against God." (The Marvel of Nations, Elder U. Smith pages 170, 183)
  2. "Here we find the mark of the beast. The very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, on the part of the Catholic church, without any authority from the Bible." (Ellen G. White, The Mark of the Beast, page 23)
  3. "The Sunday Sabbath is purely a child of the Papacy. It is the mark of the beast." (Advent Review, Vol. I, No. 2, August, 1850.)
  4. "The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church." ... "The keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath is the reception of the mark." (Ellen G. White, Great Controversy, Vol. 4, page 281.
  5. "The mark of the beast is Sunday-keeping. A law will enforce this upon Seventh-day Adventists. They won't obey. Then they will be outlawed, persecuted, and condemned to death! Of all the wild Advent speculations in the prophecies, this deserves to stand among the wildest." (Seventh-day Adventism Renounced" by D.M. Canright, 1914)
  6. "Sunday-keeping is an institution of the first beast, and ALL who submit to obey this institution emphatically worship the first beast and receive his mark, 'the mark of the beast.' .... Those who worship the beast and his image by observing the first day are certainly idolaters, as were the worshippers of the golden calf." (Advent Review Extra, pages 10 and 11, August, 1850)
  7. "the Seventh day, Saturday, must be kept; that keeping Sunday is the mark of the beast; that all should pay tithes; that Mrs. White is inspired as were the writers of the Bible; that the Bible must be interpreted to harmonize with her writings" (Seventh-day Adventism Renounced" by D.M. Canright, 1914)
  8. Show me where Leo Schreven indicates: Sunday-keeping is a step towards the mark of the beast
  9. Show me where Leo Schreven says: Sunday-keepers will be condemned
 
P

Pilgrim

Guest
#48
and so I have had Baptist and Penecostal individuals and everything in between condemn me straight to the flames so what is your point? Do certain people and how they act or what they say define God? No! Everyone must work out their own salvation with fear and trembling
 
P

Pilgrim

Guest
#50
Sad you are using a group of God`s people understanding and using it as a weapon against them because you are offended. That is not a fruit of the spirit which refers me back to my 2nd comment in this thread that we all must remove the plank from our own eye lest we fall from our own example fueled by self will. Keep your eyes on Jesus! That is the beautiful simplicity of His message :) Do you also know that debating His word in offensive ways is displeasing to Him
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#51
I would agree that the mark of the beast is when the antichrist is in operation. Yet I have read SDAers on this forum directly claim Sunday church attendance is the mark of the beast with no reference to the tribulation. I am sure you have heard that as well.

Can you find a reference to tribulation or mark of the beast below?
No one has the mark of the beast now because it includes forced worship. Worship is mentioned 8 times in Revelation 13 & 14. It will be over who we are loyal to and will we worship the way God says not what man says. If we love the Lord we will keep the Lord's day, His day.
 
D

danschance

Guest
#52
That my friend is where you are wrong. She said that when the anti-christ appears and forces worship in a particular way, than it will be considered the mark of the beast. Not now. And if it doesn`t happen that way, than so be it. Many question the rapture as well but doesn`t mean they are a cult for believing it or if it doesn`t happen. I suppose many believe they have the whole bible figured out to a T and need not learn anything more. God forbid! You are reading into things with an offensive spirit. Furthermore, if you are so worried about what other people say, than I suggest doing what Christ did and that is turn the other cheek because when we do things His way, we have victory. If we are secure in the Lord and bearing the fruits of His spirit, we need not worry about anything else but sharing the gift of His salvation despite what others do or say
Odd how the bible never mentions Sunday Church goers as the ones who get the mark of of the beast. Instead it claims that those who get the mark of the beast are worshiping the antichrist as why they can not be saved. Seems like "Sunday church goers getting the mark of the beast" is another example of Ellen White contradicting or adding to the bible.

Revelation 13:15–18



15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not oworship the image of the beast pto be slain. 16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave,5 qto be marked on the right hand or the forehead,17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, rthe name of the beast or sthe number of its name. 18 tThis calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number uof a man, and his number is 666. Rev 13:15:18
 
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Pilgrim

Guest
#53
Thank you Jesus for your spirit of love. Thank you that you have molded me to where I can stand confident in You and Your truth without having to tear others down. For I am undeserving and it is by Your grace alone that I am saved. Thank You for the guidance of Your Holy Spirit so I can see things through Your eyes and be the servant of the least of Your kingdom for it is by Your will that my life is lived in delight and I shant ever take my eyes off of my Shephard. Amen


I pray those in this thread have a blessed evening. *exits*
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#54
I have heard this and studied this and disagree with this. A day consists of an evening and a morning. It is 2300 days. There is no explanation given in Daniel 8 regarding the 2300 days. The angel in Daniel 9 starts with 'consider the vision' There is no vision given in Daniel 9 so it is referring to an earlier unexplained vision and since this is about time then the vision to consider would also be about time.

The angel in Daniel 9 says 70 weeks are determined upon thy people. The word determined means cut off from something. Since this is a time prophecy then the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 are cut of from a larger time prophecy, the 2300 days of Daniel 8.

OK whatever...

How many evenings are there in one week?------>7
How many mornings are there in one week?------>7

How many combined evenings and mornings are there in a week? 14

God is precise and he did not use days (King Jim translation), but rather used evenings and mornings...1150 days=2300 evenings and mornings.

Which fits into the 1335 days that are left as found in chapter 12 that are to be applied unto Israel.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#55
Odd how the bible never mentions Sunday Church goers as the ones who get the mark of of the beast. Instead it claims that those who get the mark of the beast are worshiping the antichrist as why they can not be saved. Seems like "Sunday church goers getting the mark of the beast" is another example of Ellen White contradicting or adding to the bible.
People are misinterpreting what Ellen White says, just like people also misinterpret the Bible. Doctrine is based on the Bible. SDA base doctrine on the Bible not Ellen White even though she is a prophet.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#56
OK whatever...

How many evenings are there in one week?------>7
How many mornings are there in one week?------>7

How many combined evenings and mornings are there in a week? 14

God is precise and he did not use days (King Jim translation), but rather used evenings and mornings...1150 days=2300 evenings and mornings.

Which fits into the 1335 days that are left as found in chapter 12 that are to be applied unto Israel.
a day= an evening and a morning. they are not separate but to be counted as one.
 
D

danschance

Guest
#57
No one has the mark of the beast now because it includes forced worship. Worship is mentioned 8 times in Revelation 13 & 14. It will be over who we are loyal to and will we worship the way God says not what man says. If we love the Lord we will keep the Lord's day, His day.
Yes, I completely agree, the mark of the beast is to those who worship the beast and simply worshiping on the wrong day is not a reason to get the mark and be condemned for ever.

I would like to point out the Lord's day is Sunday, not Sabbath as per the early Church.

The Didache"But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas
"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch
"[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr
"[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . ." (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).
"But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).

Tertullian
"[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God" (An Answer to the Jews 2 [A.D. 203]).

The Didascalia
"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

Origen
"Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection" (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).


Please note the dates listed as to when these statements by the early Church fathers made them. They are before the Catholic church formed. White claimed it was changed during the reign of the Catholic church is proven false.
 
P

Pilgrim

Guest
#58
oh one more thing, days are not literal days when speaking of prophetic years :)


Avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. Titus 3:9.


God bless <3
 
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Pilgrim

Guest
#59
If anyone is truly interested in understanding the truth of the SDA understanding of scripture and prophetic events, please do not hesitate to send me a message and I will be happy share
 
D

danschance

Guest
#60
People are misinterpreting what Ellen White says, just like people also misinterpret the Bible. Doctrine is based on the Bible. SDA base doctrine on the Bible not Ellen White even though she is a prophet.
Are you saying The bible is above the sayings of Ellen White?

Because if that is what you are saying, I will be impressed. The SDA "Clear Word" bible has included the teachings of White in it's pages with no reference what so ever. This proves to me that SDAists consider what she said as being on par with scripture. Right or wrong?