Women preachers?

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Seriously, biscuit! Have you read the Bible through even once?

I'm just curious that to see if the one who is judgmental and condemns has even so much as a clue what he is talking about. I have never seen you post one Bible verse, in any version.

So please, let me know, honestly, have you ever read the Bible from cover to cover?
 
Just thought I would make it stand out a little bigger to show everybody your fruit...... no comment.

This is my 'fruit.'

[h=3]2 Timothy 4:2-4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 
Seriously, biscuit! Have you read the Bible through even once?

I'm just curious that to see if the one who is judgmental and condemns has even so much as a clue what he is talking about. I have never seen you post one Bible verse, in any version.

So please, let me know, honestly, have you ever read the Bible from cover to cover?

Why don't you check some of my posts for an answer. I am not interested in playing your childish game.
 
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet." 1 Tim. 2:12

Sadly, the word for "authority" in the Greek is not the word "exousia." That is the word Christ uses in Matt 28:18.

"And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

Exousia (ἐξουσία) is the word which describes those who are over us in power, dominion and status. Jesus says here that belongs to him alone. ALL - πᾶσα, means ALL! That means Jesus has authority over each man, woman and child on this earth. He also has authority over the heavens and the earth, Satan and his demons and anything else I might have left out. This word is used 103 times in the New Testament, and I am sure if you have Strong's you can look at all the uses for this word.

But in 1 Tim 2:12, the word for "authority" is authentein. (αὐθεντεῖν). This is a very different sort of word, and it only appears once in the entire Bible, also known as a Hapax Legomena.

Hapax Legomena are extremely difficult to translate. Because you can't cross reference in the Bible and see how the word is used elsewhere in Scripture. In fact, the only way to discover the meaning of the word, is to go to contemporaneous sources. That would be the works written in the same era and place as the book of Timothy. Then try and figure out if the meaning is the same in all those extra Biblical works, or something different.

In fact authentein or αὐθεντεῖν has over 50 different meanings for it. But by far, the most common is "domineer". But other meanings include murder, and copulate. So a very tricky word, that is constantly quoted as the final reference for the entire complementarian movement.

If it had been translated as "domineer" I would have no difficulties with the word or the passage. But King James, who also believed in divine right of kings, had his translators make it "authority" thus confusing it with exousia.

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." 1 Tim 2:12 KJV

The word "exercise" in ESV or "usurp" in the KJV does not appear in any manuscripts in the Greek. So right there you are having some major translational issues. Because the word is a present indicative infinitive, we can't even use it as a verb in English. So you have to put a spin on authentein to even translate it. (Infinitives cannot hold the place of an active verb in a sentence in English) So you can't "to authority." Although "to domineer" works well in English. For that matter, the word "over", does not appear in the Greek either, another word which places the man "over" the woman. Here is the Greek, with my own translation below. Feel free to take it and translate it, using Strong's or whatever. But be careful not to use an internet site that backward translates the KJV, or you will get exactly what you started out with in English!

"διδάσκειν δὲ γυναικὶ οὐκ ἐπιτρέπω, οὐδὲ αὐθεντεῖν ἀνδρός, ἀλλ’ εἶναι ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ."
To teach and a woman not I allow/permit, and not, to domineer a man, but to be in quietness. (Word for word translation)

In fact, a better interpretation, based on cultural norms, Jewish traditions, and in context with verse 11, might be the following.

In New Testament times, women were not taught to read, nor to study. As these women became Christians, the leaders of the church saw their hunger to know more about God. Like the rabbis used to take students, who sat in silence and absorbed the words of their teachers, the women were instructed to be like the rabbinical students. The were to sit in silence and be taught. (looking at the Greek, it seems like διδάσκειν or "to teach" might well be in the wrong verse. Sadly, so many verses are out of place in their numbering, and it really does slant some passages)

So women were to learn in quietness, and not domineer over the man who was teaching. This might have been a real necessary challenge, considering the background of some of these women. They may have been pagan priestesses, from the temple of Artemis, which was a pagan religion of women ruling over men (not something I think Christ had in mind either). Women like this were also probably disrupting the services in Corinth, which is why Paul cautions the women to be quiet there.

So rather than not permitting a woman to speak or teach, or have authority over the men, a closer look in the Greek reveals it is probably instructing the women to learn quietly and not to dominate the men. As for the not teaching a man, the Greek does not have "not" modifying the word διδάσκειν. Hmm. I had never noticed that before. You learn something new every day, don't you?

I agree that women are not to dominate men. Nor men to dominate women! In fact, Eph 5 is always a reassurance, because it actually tells us to submit one to another.

"submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ." Eph. 5:21

And everyone will learn more if they are silent when the teacher is speaking.

These bad Bible translations are part of the reason I object so strongly to the entire complementarian movement. Because they use their theology as a starting point to translate, rather than the culture in which it was written, and the people to whom it was being written. Hermeneutics really needs to be taught to every Christian and I think half the doctrinal errors we see in the BDF would never have been started.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28

A strong statement about Greeks, slaves and women. That God sees us all as equal in Christ, mutually submitting to one another out of reverence to Christ. After all, Christ is the only authority, and women are answerable to God, not their husbands on Judgment Day.

(Written totally by me, but copied and pasted from another forum here at CC!) But I can give you the names of the Exegetical guides and Lexicons I used to prepare the above!)

Just bumping this up, since only two people saw it, I'm assuming because they like it. Now, it may be you do NOT like it, but then at least have the decency to discuss what I said. And I will go toe to toe on the other disputed verses, and show you what the Greek and not the words of men say.

Oh right, people ignored it because they don't understand Greek. Too bad for you, it would open your eyes on more than just this issue!
 
We have a gal who helps teach in our home church. We also every now and then have a female teacher teach in our sunday morning service. They can teach just as good (sometimes better) then some of the men who teach.

As long as it would not offend anyone, I see nothing wrong with a leader teaching.

I pray no one preaches. we do not need preached to. We need taught.
 
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Originally Posted by mystdancer50


What is ironic is that women will be bashed over the head and beaten with this one verse in 1 Timothy, which is Paul's opinion

So, was Paul inspired of God or not? If you say no, and it is just his opinion then you need to rip 13 to 14 books out of your New Testament and use it to start a fire or have back up material for the toilet.

This wouldn't be so controversial if one would notice that no leadership position is talked about in the entire chapter. This speaks about women taking charge in the family unit.

As a matter of fact, No leadership position is specifically given the "off limits" by any apostle in scripture. Nowhere is the women of any church told NO. Corinth would have been the ideal church to say this, for it seems that it's the most spiritually dysfunctional church in the NT! But it's not there.
 
Definitely your voice

Ok... so the fact that I posted several times in this thread is a "lack of action." Ok.

Well, I'm going to step away from this thread now. It's start to become not about discussing an issue in an intellect and civil manner with Christian love, but about throwing bombs at one another. I'm not going to be a part of it.

dcontroversal, if you want to continue the discussion we started on this thread, just PM me.
 
This wouldn't be so controversial if one would notice that no leadership position is talked about in the entire chapter. This speaks about women taking charge in the family unit.

As a matter of fact, No leadership position is specifically given the "off limits" by any apostle in scripture. Nowhere is the women of any church told NO. Corinth would have been the ideal church to say this, for it seems that it's the most spiritually dysfunctional church in the NT! But it's not there.

The post is not about whether or not a woman has the right or not, but rather about the (Opinion) statement...

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Originally Posted by dcontroversal
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Originally Posted by mystdancer50


What is ironic is that women will be bashed over the head and beaten with this one verse in 1 Timothy, which is Paul's opinion

So, was Paul inspired of God or not? If you say no, and it is just his opinion then you need to rip 13 to 14 books out of your New Testament and use it to start a fire or have back up material for the toilet.
 
I am going to leave, but you gave me hope that Christians do have love. I was born Jewish and became and atheist. I love all now not who some believe are sinful. A joke now the best thing I learned from the old testament is "Everybody Must Get Stoned"
A joke I do not smoke. But let your God judge me not you guys
 
I am going to leave, but you gave me hope that Christians do have love. I was born Jewish and became and atheist. I love all now not who some believe are sinful. A joke now the best thing I learned from the old testament is "Everybody Must Get Stoned"
A joke I do not smoke. But let your God judge me not you guys

Shalom Shalom and by faith make Him YOUR GOD as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the one true God friend.
 
The problem is we have about 6 feminists on CC with 3 of them hardcore. They wish to mix feminist's ideology with Christianity, which is not accepted any more than mixing voodoo or witchcraft with Christianity. The twist & spin they take in order to get a point across is incredible. God has clearly & plainly made it clear that He doesn't want women in the pulpit, and you have given excellent bible verses to back it up. God & Jesus are One and the doctrine still hold true in 2014. Please keep up the good work my brother.


Biscuit, yes indeed, God has made it very clear in His word that women are not to usurp the authority over the man, but that they are to be in silence. They are to learn in silence with all subjection (1 Tim. 2:11-12).

And thank you brother for the encouragement.