The Letter to the Romans...
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H
How can any one think of birth as a positional thing. The baby you take into you arms was begotten, created in your womb and you gave birth to a live screening child , alive, breathing eating etc. it is not a positional thing, like a trophy, a degree, which you put on the wall and look at from time to time. There are too many in the church goers that are dead ,they need God's new birth. They have not been allowed to develop in Gods ' gestation time ,for God to produce alive birth, they have not had the struggle of seeking God, the evangelist does all the work for them and salvation is present to the sinner as a done deal, Jesus did it all on the cross, all the sinner does is accept Jesus. no conviction of theHoly Spirit, no creation of a new creature by the Father, it is all a positional thing, God just take us sinners, forgives us, adopts us as he finds us and no transformation needed ,ready to go to Heaven. And we get all the problem children and wish God had just taken these little brats to Heaven ,he loves these wicked sinners so much, God, please, give them an instant Glorification, and get them out of our face. We have no patience to wait on God to gives sinner the new birth. Love to all, Hoffco
H
What I am saying is: it takes the will and power and timing of God to save a sinner. The old saying is wrong, "God is always willing to save the sinner,if the sinner would just Believe and receive Jesus as Savior",OR, "God is just waiting to have the sinner accept His plan of salvation by the free will of man." Both statements are wrong. Dead wrong. God knows that man is spiritually dead and man will not ever chose Jesus, So GOD'S plan is to rescue dead men by His powerful call to the heart of the sinner, which gives the sinner life to believe and receive Jesus as Savior and Lord. God, in fact , hides truth from the wise and only reveals truth to the humble. But, pastors want the way of salvation easy to enter by the sinner, So, just a simple prayer of asking Jesus to save them is enough. No commitment to obey is needed. But the real prayer for salvation involues a commitment to obey. Heb, 5:9 "And having been perfected, (Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him." The secret of discipleship is fruit bearing. The secret of fruit bearing is abiding. The secret of abiding is obeying God's commands. The secret of obeying is loving God. And this is the love of God,that we keep His commandments. If we love righteousness, we are born of God. If we love the brethren, we are born of God. If we walk in the light as God is in the light, we are born of God. If we believe in Jesus, we are born of God. BUT loving God and keeping His commandments and believing in Jesus do not make us Born of God. These actions only show that we ARE born of God. So, HOW, is one born of God? Being born of God takes the miracle of the power of God to transform our hearts into the very image of God our Father. This is why every spiritual blessing flows out of the new birth, Regeneration. which is the first stage of God's actions of sanctifying sinners. And this reg. is not position ,but actual. Sanctification is never positional, and Justification is only positional. Justification does the sinner no earthly good, unless it is preceded by Regeneration which is the first part of three parts in sanctification. 1. Calling 2. Growth 3. Glorification in Heaven and the resurrection of the body. Sanctification begins and ends with a miracle. The Christian life is one of us cooperating with God for our growth in Grace; If one neglects the work of man in sanctification ,one has turned the grace of God into license to sin. This is HYPER GRACE and not the true grace of God. This "falling from Grace" True GRACE always leads to good works, "the work of faith". Love to all, Hoffco
John 8:15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one
Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
I stand in Faith in the Living Christ, not by works or this work oriented obedience to the Faith turned into works of flesh
God works are a by-product of Faith, no more my works, God's works alone, and so I thanks to God am at rest in God's finished works
Romans 4:2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.
The only hard work left is the hard work in to understanding entering his rest by belief alone through Son's finished work at the cross for us and then we walk as he walked
Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
I stand in Faith in the Living Christ, not by works or this work oriented obedience to the Faith turned into works of flesh
God works are a by-product of Faith, no more my works, God's works alone, and so I thanks to God am at rest in God's finished works
Romans 4:2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.
The only hard work left is the hard work in to understanding entering his rest by belief alone through Son's finished work at the cross for us and then we walk as he walked
So stand in what Faith or works?
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[SUP][a][/SUP] your evil behavior. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— [SUP]23 [/SUP]if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[SUP][a][/SUP] your evil behavior. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— [SUP]23 [/SUP]if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Apple has no thought Sister, and by thought is how the corruption took place to begin with, the serpent got Eve to think and walah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2 Corinthians 10:5
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
Not my thoughts God's
2 Corinthians 10:5
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
Not my thoughts God's
Be still and know that God is God and man is man, fighting God
Psalm 46:10 He says, “Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth
Galatians 4:29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.
Galatians 5:16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Psalm 46:10 He says, “Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth
Galatians 4:29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.
Galatians 5:16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Either by Christ his death in the body you are made this or you are not?>
Colossians 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
It is a done deal from God to ius through Son, you all, if:
Colossians 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Colossians 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
It is a done deal from God to ius through Son, you all, if:
Colossians 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
the ongoing process is:
Colossians 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Colossians 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Just6 pass from death flesh to life Spirit by the resurrected Christ and be a doer, not a hearer, The doer psrt is not us doing it, rahter God doing it through us. If we could it, then there was no need for the disciples to wait for the Holy Spirit to come down and live in them, more importantly through them on the day of Pentecost
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Love you Brother and all, Thanks, I know nothing, God knows all, seek always to God who has by Christ come to live in us each, the very first day we believed and God carries on the work he began in each of us. Eph 1:13
Not putting down anyone working out their own salvation with fear and trembling, that is good in itself, it starts the Metamorphosis, the cocoon on their way to the end of the energy of their own flesh, seeing it as all God and none of self.
And the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy one that is in this Cocoon, to walk away, break out before being born, having trouble obeying behind closed doors, not seeing this:
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
It matters not if one wants to quit sin, in trying of one's own flesh, either keeps one sinning or if they are really good at obeying like that rich man in Matt 19, pride enters and boastfulness, yet God, Christ showed even him his not being able to be perfect and that rich man was annihilated and walked away sad. The Disciples finally got it and asked how is it possible for anyone to enter Heaven, under law?
Christ with man it is impossible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With God his Father all things are possible, went to the cross and made it real, dies in our stead and gave us the righteous of Father to participate in of Father by Faith in the finished work Christ did in our stead,
Be ye transformed in the twinkling of an eye, right here right now by Father pass from death to life, by believing Father in this:
[h=3]Colossians 1:1-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, [SUP]2 [/SUP]to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, [SUP]4 [/SUP]since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, [SUP]5 [/SUP]for the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; [SUP]6 [/SUP]which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: [SUP]7 [/SUP]as ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; [SUP]8 [/SUP]who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; [SUP]10 [/SUP]that ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; [SUP]11 [/SUP]strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; [SUP]12 [/SUP]giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: [SUP]13 [/SUP]who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: [SUP]14 [/SUP]in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: [SUP]15 [/SUP]who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [SUP]16 [/SUP]for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [SUP]17 [/SUP]and he is before all things, and by him all things consist. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; [SUP]20 [/SUP]and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, Itisfinished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
[h=3]Hebrews 9:15-17[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[h=3]Hebrews 7:11-12[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? [SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Not putting down anyone working out their own salvation with fear and trembling, that is good in itself, it starts the Metamorphosis, the cocoon on their way to the end of the energy of their own flesh, seeing it as all God and none of self.
And the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy one that is in this Cocoon, to walk away, break out before being born, having trouble obeying behind closed doors, not seeing this:
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
It matters not if one wants to quit sin, in trying of one's own flesh, either keeps one sinning or if they are really good at obeying like that rich man in Matt 19, pride enters and boastfulness, yet God, Christ showed even him his not being able to be perfect and that rich man was annihilated and walked away sad. The Disciples finally got it and asked how is it possible for anyone to enter Heaven, under law?
Christ with man it is impossible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With God his Father all things are possible, went to the cross and made it real, dies in our stead and gave us the righteous of Father to participate in of Father by Faith in the finished work Christ did in our stead,
Be ye transformed in the twinkling of an eye, right here right now by Father pass from death to life, by believing Father in this:
[h=3]Colossians 1:1-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, [SUP]2 [/SUP]to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, [SUP]4 [/SUP]since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, [SUP]5 [/SUP]for the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; [SUP]6 [/SUP]which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: [SUP]7 [/SUP]as ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; [SUP]8 [/SUP]who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; [SUP]10 [/SUP]that ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; [SUP]11 [/SUP]strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; [SUP]12 [/SUP]giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: [SUP]13 [/SUP]who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: [SUP]14 [/SUP]in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: [SUP]15 [/SUP]who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [SUP]16 [/SUP]for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [SUP]17 [/SUP]and he is before all things, and by him all things consist. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; [SUP]20 [/SUP]and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, Itisfinished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
[h=3]Hebrews 9:15-17[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[h=3]Hebrews 7:11-12[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? [SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
H
Homwardbound, Why do you keep slapping us as lost ,born only of the flesh, no spiritual life at all, and we are persecuting you who are born of the Spirit. I keep quoting commands of God for us to obey and you keep in you non-action mode of just believe God does it all, and we just need to believe, If we try to help ourselves by eating the word, obeying God, you say we are sinning. I will not respond any more, until our leader comes back. Love to all Hoffco
H
Yahshua, we are waiting on you. are you well. or need prayers? We need to get into Rom. 6 to prove that the New birth is a radical brake with sin and not positional at all. Rom. 6 and 8 destroys the "carnal Christian heresy" which A.W. Tozer condemned 70 yrs ago. If you are bowing out, I will be glad to carry on this thread for you. Love to all, Hoffco
Hoffco, just love you, all you said in this post is conjecture, I have not judged anyone, you ar anyone Brother. I havbe onolly posted what I see as truth in my own experience in living out the word, taught to me by God, and you are doing the same, trying to sort out truth over error.
Does the truth set you free?
So that means to me if the truth sets me free and if I am in bondage then truth has not yet set me free and I would need to re-think my truth is that correct?
So as I grow, you grow, and everyone that is in God thanks to Christ, are by God's love and Mercy being taught by God personally to separate truth from error right?
John 8:32 and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
So truth sets one free, then error puts and keeps one in bondage right?
John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be freeindeed.
I believe and trust God to sort it all out and set you free in him by him and for him,
Just reading Romans 8, exemplifies the fight between our unredeem3ed flesh and the Spirit of God brother and is very hard to grasp, seeing how our personal flesh is not willing to even be reckoned dead and wants to try to obey:
Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
The battle is very clear in the word:
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Does the truth set you free?
So that means to me if the truth sets me free and if I am in bondage then truth has not yet set me free and I would need to re-think my truth is that correct?
So as I grow, you grow, and everyone that is in God thanks to Christ, are by God's love and Mercy being taught by God personally to separate truth from error right?
John 8:32 and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
So truth sets one free, then error puts and keeps one in bondage right?
John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be freeindeed.
I believe and trust God to sort it all out and set you free in him by him and for him,
Just reading Romans 8, exemplifies the fight between our unredeem3ed flesh and the Spirit of God brother and is very hard to grasp, seeing how our personal flesh is not willing to even be reckoned dead and wants to try to obey:
Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
The battle is very clear in the word:
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Never said anyone is lost, that is my Father's judgment to who is and who is not. I am as Christ was not come to destroy the people, or judge but to show what Son has done for us all delievered us to Father in confidence through him
Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.