The Letter to the Romans...

[homwardbound]

Much importance is given to "loving God" in Christianity, yet there is no standard as to WHAT love is (i.e., Is our definition of "loving God" the same as God's definition? Where is God's definition found at the time of Yeshua and Paul?)

Much of the "Mainstream Christianity" says the "Torah" or "Old Testament" is done away with. If that were the case, there is nothing to base understanding the "New Testament" on, or understanding Paul's letters. Paul was well trained in Torah, and considered as amongst the most educated men of his day.

"What would Jesus do?" the individual is not pointed to God's Torah (or to a Torah-based interpretation of the "New Testament") but left to decide by way of a combination of a particular's of a specific denominational theology, and their own "feelings."

In Deuteronomy (as well as in the "New Testament, i.e., 1 John 2:3), God explains what he means by "loving Him" -- obedience (in faith) to His Torah. This is the standard He gave us.

Definition of God's .love to us, for us to receive this is:

[h=3]1 Corinthians 13:4-13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, [SUP]5 [/SUP]doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; [SUP]6 [/SUP]rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; [SUP]7 [/SUP]beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. [SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

 

[homwardbound]

Paul's message is that what is important to God is not whether you are a Jew (brought up with the Torah), or a gentile (raised apart from Torah), but if you follow His Torah in faith.



As Paul made clear in his letter to the congregation at Corinth. Once again, when Paul (or Yahshua, John, James, etc.), spoke of God's commandments, they meant but one thing -- the Torah:

1 Corinthians 7:19 -Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the
commandments [Torah] of God.



​

The greatest of all is:>
Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt lovetheLord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

And no one can do this in truth until God gives them the truth in love and we see in receiving this love first. Then in response we love as God does:
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

Love to all as Hoffco states in his posts, because that is truth

 

[homwardbound]

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh



Instruction of the Torah by itself, lacks power to change people's lives. It points out sin but does not free man from it. This is not the fault of the Torah, hence Paul’s clause, "because it was weak through the flesh" (re: 3:9; 7:25).

Yes Sister, and I know the Law is perfect and when it flows through this unredeemed flesh I die, because this flesh is not redeemed, but my Spirit is by the resurrected Christ. So the Law has served its purpose to show me my inability to ever be perfect in and of me ever, and have now turned to God the Father by Faith in the finished work of Son Christ

[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[jag1977]

I a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child but I became a man, I put childish things see through a glass, darkly but then I in part but then shall I as also I am and abideth hope, charity, these three but the greatest these*is*charity.

 

[homwardbound]

Torah! Torah! Torah!
It's almost like there is no such thing as the new testament.

john 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Your Torah, Torah, Torah reminds me of the raging Bull and no offense to anyone, for i know the Torah is real and in place for a reason, thanking God for this
1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Torah, Torah, Torah and here comes the bull to keep under the power of sin, and I did not see this for years as many will see this one day as well and be free indeed
Praying for all of us and our freedom to rejoice all the time, not just one day a week

 

[Hoffco]

Thanks to Karrester and RedTent, we may be able to deliver Homward and Elin from the trap of the Devil. They have made their mind the rule for doctrine. By taking the major doctrine of Justification by faith tooo far; By exaggerating it to "faith alone", thus turning it into nonscense. This error is taking many people to Hell.The whole teaching of Justification is: We are first justified by Grace, 2nd, by faith, 3rd, by works of righteousness. This is the WHOLE Bible teaching on justification. James is clear: "knowing a man is justified by words and not by faith only". other verses teach justification by works also. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[homwardbound]

Brother! Calm down, if these want to bind themselves to a life-threatening standard, what must we do?

Ask God to teach us what to say and not say, all in love as in Matt 10:16-20

 

[Hoffco]

To jag1977 , We don't need your nonsense that "Peter is the Holy Ghost". We don't want sick humor. Love ya, and want the truth from you, please. Hoffco

 

[homwardbound]

What is the law of liberty? You are either bound to God's Law, or you are bound to sin. Bound to God's law is liberty, and free from sin and wickedness.

Yes you are saying here what we have said, and you have not understood this very same thing you said here in this post

Perfection is from God period and not from self ever, it is by belief (Faith) in Christ has now today delivered the believer to Father to teach us truth over error that sets us free from ever being in bondage again

Hope we are connecting now?

 

[Karraster]

Job 11:7 Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2 Corinthians 13:9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.
2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Ephesians 4:12 for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Ephesians 4:13 till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
1 Thessalonians 3:10 night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?















2 Timothy 3:17 that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through
Hebrews 5:9 and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Hebrews 9:9 which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.










And it seems I see many trying to become Sanctified when it is all done for you and me in Christ. So simple we can't see the forest through the trees, being taught to work hard for success a way of this world that contradicts Faith in God through Son, at least what i see, and the truth shall make one free and be free indeed those that Christ reveals it to are, and it does take hard work to enter God's rest, to understand it is by belief that we do as led as Christ did this during his entire walk on earth.
Note: He did not do any of the works
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Is this not to be for us too, Chrisat sent the same Holy Spirit to us right to do what lead us as did Christ right?

We can choose verses singled out to justify almost any religion. However, if we sincerely want the truth of what the message is, we will keep context in mind, as well as the thought being conveyed. While using scripture outside of the text being examined is helpful, to gather a single piece that is not central to the main idea of the text is nothing short of self serving to promote what we want scripture to say.

For example I take one of the verses you quote, Hebrews 2:10...of which you did not even finish the verse, let alone what that chapter was about, the heart of the matter..
Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through

for brevity, and because it is obvious to me that you do not wish to study Romans, rather tangle is in a mass of ramblings , here is just 1 more verse from that chapter. The best way to study is to read the whole thing, not a verse here and there.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

...the rest of that story..He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted. ......tempt from what? Sin? What is sin? What will His aid do? Help us not sin? Why do we need His aid? Because we are not supposed to sin?

 

[homwardbound]

Now this is very telling Karraster.
2 Cor 3:15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

I interpreted her to say the Law of liberty by Faith, and I see you saw her to say the letter of the Law, not sure now, but I know I am free from bondage thank you Jesus

 

[jag1977]

To jag1977 , We don't need your nonsense that "Peter is the Holy Ghost". We don't want sick humor. Love ya, and want the truth from you, please. Hoffco

It's the truth. Reread the passage until your mind can digest it properly. It comes to light by proper grouping. Like a child reads.

 

[homwardbound]

Can we agree that Messiah is the Word made flesh? If we can, that is a basis for further discussion in what exactly was it, that Messiah taught.
John 1

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Deity of Jesus Christ

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP][SUP][a][/SUP]He was in the beginning with God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. [SUP]5 [/SUP]The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [SUP][b][/SUP]comprehend it.

Yes Messiah, Christ was made flesh through the Virgin, so no man can ever please God outside of Christ. Christ did this perfection for us in his flesh for us, and was born a life-giving Spirit and this Spirit was not given until after the resurrection and ascension then came Pentecost, with the express purpose for God to lead as God led Christ
True or not? So I seek to do as God leads me, as I am perceiving you are doing the same, just please be careful of the stress of trying to obey law perfectly, knowing you are still in an unredeemed body. personally for me by this knowing I die daily

Today we no longer know him by the flesh rather by Spirit only
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[Hoffco]

Psa. 19:8-11 "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul;...and in keeping them there is great reward" The reward is eternal life. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[homwardbound]

When what is followed? See, it's the what I am aiming for, and not of the understanding of what I think is right, but with the Word telling me what is right and wrong.

What is the it, you refer to? Can you explain it? Or is it what each man perceives right to be?

By Faith in God through Son's finished for all people here in this world, those that God has accepted, knowing each persons motive he gives the gift of eternal life and made us alive in the Spirit of him and dead to our old flesh.

We follow by Faith in God's miraculous love to all. The law of Faith, the Law of liberty,
John 8:32 and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Has this yet been done in you? Praying you come to whole light and walk in trust as Christ did 100%$ in all things. This is meant for his children, you, me and all who will give up and believe God that God did do it all form you, to give you new life in Spirit of God, by and through the death of Son for all who will believe, so do you beleive?

John 10:42 And many believed on him there.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 11:26 and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 16:31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

 

[Hoffco]

Homward, have you been reading "Christian science" garbage? The law is not the curse, braking the law is the curse. The law is the standard of righteousness for the Christian. The letter and the spirit ( small "s") is our standard, and it is perfectly personified in Jesus. Hoffco

 

[Karraster]

Yes Messiah, Christ was made flesh through the Virgin, so no man can ever please God outside of Christ. Christ did this perfection for us in his flesh for us, and was born a life-giving Spirit and this Spirit was not given until after the resurrection and ascension then came Pentecost, with the express purpose for God to lead as God led Christ
True or not? So I seek to do as God leads me, as I am perceiving you are doing the same, just please be careful of the stress of trying to obey law perfectly, knowing you are still in an unredeemed body. personally for me by this knowing I die daily

Today we no longer know him by the flesh rather by Spirit only
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Never have I said anyone is perfect, most of all me. For why would have Messiah had to die were we perfect before God?

What I am saying, the laws of God are just as important as they ever were, if not more so for our gift of Messiah. We are called to live by God's Word, His commandments, with faith in Messiah. If not, then how are we any different than a heathen? who lives as he sees fit in his own eyes, and says God's laws are abolished.

 

[homwardbound]

Thanks to Karrester and RedTent, we may be able to deliver Homward and Elin from the trap of the Devil. They have made their mind the rule for doctrine. By taking the major doctrine of Justification by faith tooo far; By exaggerating it to "faith alone", thus turning it into nonscense. This error is taking many people to Hell.The whole teaching of Justification is: We are first justified by Grace, 2nd, by faith, 3rd, by works of righteousness. This is the WHOLE Bible teaching on justification. James is clear: "knowing a man is justified by words and not by faith only". other verses teach justification by works also. Love to all, Hoffco

Sorry you are not enlightened to the truth that sets you free
I never said works are not involved. I said my selfish works are dead with Christ at Christ's death and brought back to life in God through Christ at the resurrected Christ alive in Spirit and truth, holding onto trusting Father to do through me what me flesh can never do.
The fight is flesh verses Spirit of God and none other.

If it is flesh still alive to do for God, then why did the Disciples have to wait for God to come in the power of the Holy Ghost to do the preacxhing?
I mean Christ hung around for forty days after his resurrection, explaining all things to them. They knew the truth right? So why did they have to wait?
Becasue no flesh in God's sight will ever please God, only one that ever did was Christ, period and today we no longer know him in the flesh, and God can onlky be woirshiped in Spirit and truth, time to die to self Brother, God is trying to show you this, Love you and all

 

[Hoffco]

Homward, I will believe every verse in the Bible; But your problem is, you take verses out of context. like Rom.14:4 & 10 this is in the context of neutral things,( like food and drink, days and yrs, feasts,etc.) not unlawful things. We can not judge Red Tent if she wants to make a booth out side her house to represent the wilderness journey of this life, it is a good witnessing point. But if she insists I am sinning by not having a booth, I would be right to tell her, "Bug off," LOL,
It is not your right to judge me on booth making. do the same thing concerning a christmas tree, RIGHT? "Love Hoffco

 

[homwardbound]

We can choose verses singled out to justify almost any religion. However, if we sincerely want the truth of what the message is, we will keep context in mind, as well as the thought being conveyed. While using scripture outside of the text being examined is helpful, to gather a single piece that is not central to the main idea of the text is nothing short of self serving to promote what we want scripture to say.

For example I take one of the verses you quote, Hebrews 2:10...of which you did not even finish the verse, let alone what that chapter was about, the heart of the matter..
Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through

for brevity, and because it is obvious to me that you do not wish to study Romans, rather tangle is in a mass of ramblings , here is just 1 more verse from that chapter. The best way to study is to read the whole thing, not a verse here and there.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

...the rest of that story..He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted. ......tempt from what? Sin? What is sin? What will His aid do? Help us not sin? Why do we need His aid? Because we are not supposed to sin?

Full trust in the Armour of God takes away sin the same as he came to doi per John the Baptist
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Oh and please do read in Context, praying God opens our heart to see truth that sets one free from bondage

If truth sets us free and if i see me in bondage then truth has not set me free, and I see then I need to re-think the truth that I have been stubbornly holding onto right or wrong?