The Letter to the Romans...
- Thread starter Yahshua
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
K
[SUP]Revelations 9 [/SUP]And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; [SUP]10 [/SUP]and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
and you have yet to answer my question in post 767.
and you have yet to answer my question in post 767.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? [SUP]32 [/SUP]He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? [SUP]33 [/SUP]Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [SUP]36 [/SUP]As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. [SUP]37 [/SUP]Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [SUP]39 [/SUP]nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous
Paul quotes Psalm 44:22-23, showing Israel's suffering (and that of the gentile coming into the faith of Israel), is "nothing new." Such
tribulation is actually a sign of their continued election.
1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous
Paul quotes Psalm 44:22-23, showing Israel's suffering (and that of the gentile coming into the faith of Israel), is "nothing new." Such
tribulation is actually a sign of their continued election.
And only a remnant believe to this day.
This theme will be important in the lesson Paul brings forward in
the remainder of this letter. ( 9:27-29)
the remainder of this letter. ( 9:27-29)
God's promises to Israel are fulfilled in a believing remnant only, to this day.
K
Be not proud, humble your ways, serve the Almighty with all your strength and love. Submit to Him as our Messiah did submit to Him. Hate not your brother, or the Word of God. Don't mummer and say "the burden of the LORD". It is no burden my friend, it is freedom. Serve the Lord your God while you can. A day is coming to us all there will be no more time to choose.
Elin said:
Paul is speaking of creation's liberation from decay, which is the new earth at the end of time,
at the same time as the redemption of our bodies, which is the resurrection, which makes it also at the end of time, with which he locates the rapture (1Th 4:16-17), making it also at the end of time.
The NT specifically locates the new earth with the resurrection (Ro 8:19-21),
which is located with the rapture (1Th 4:16-17), all at the end of time.
Nowhere do we find a future temporal earthly kingdom expounded by Peter, James, John or Paul in their letters of instruction and teaching to the NT churches.
Did they forget to tell us about it?
Did they not know about it?
If the apostles themselves did not know about it,
on what basis do we know about it?
Only from our own fancies taken from uncertain interpretation of prophetic riddles,
which can be, and are, validly interpreted by others to mean things entirely different.
Nowhere does Paul state that the elect must suffer on behalf of unredeemed creation.
That is skewed contra-NT theology.
at the same time as the redemption of our bodies, which is the resurrection, which makes it also at the end of time, with which he locates the rapture (1Th 4:16-17), making it also at the end of time.
The NT specifically locates the new earth with the resurrection (Ro 8:19-21),
which is located with the rapture (1Th 4:16-17), all at the end of time.
Nowhere do we find a future temporal earthly kingdom expounded by Peter, James, John or Paul in their letters of instruction and teaching to the NT churches.
Did they forget to tell us about it?
Did they not know about it?
If the apostles themselves did not know about it,
on what basis do we know about it?
Only from our own fancies taken from uncertain interpretation of prophetic riddles,
which can be, and are, validly interpreted by others to mean things entirely different.
Nowhere does Paul state that the elect must suffer on behalf of unredeemed creation.
That is skewed contra-NT theology.
I just have one question. If the elect does not suffer on behalf of unredeemed creation, then from where does persecution come?
Would you care to address the questions in blue above?
Last edited:
H
Yes , elin you are right, only the "elect to sal." will be saved, of any nation; But Israel is God's chosen nation of all nations. The New T. is sooo clear, God has never un chosen the nation of Israel. Todays history proves this, the prophecy is being fulfill of God bring back Israelites to the land of "Palestine", their land given to Abraham for ever. Love Hoff
Elin, You must be an a-mill. or a post mill. .
Paul and John are the key to end time prophesy. Peter has much to say of end times.
Paul and John are the key to end time prophesy. Peter has much to say of end times.
Please address why nowhere do Peter, James John or Paul even mention
a future temporal earthly kingdom in their letters of instruction and teaching to the churches.
Did they forget to tell us about it?
Did they not know about it?
If the apostles themselves did not know about it,
on what basis do we know about it?
Last edited:
K
Well, suffering on behalf of, and suffering by, unredeemed creation, are not the same thing.
Would you care to address the questions in blue above?
Would you care to address the questions in blue above?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; [SUP]10 [/SUP]and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Last edited by a moderator:
Elin, again, I have to say, your problem is , you need to learn to read. no body ,who knows reading skills of a 7th grader, can read Rev. and come up with the stupid things you a-mills say. Sorry, but my Reform friends say the same stupid things.
which can be, and are, validly interpreted by others to mean things entirely different.
Certain and unequivocal NT teaching specifically locates the new earth at the end of time
with the resurrection (Ro 8:19-21),
and locates the rapture with the resurrection (1Th 4:16-17), which is at the end of time.
The NT specifically locates the resurrection, rapture and new earth together at the end of time.
The NT specifically does not allow for a future temporal earthly kingdom after the rapture.
If you do not wish to contradict the NT clear word of God, these (Ro 8:19-21; 1Th 4:16-17)
are the certain and unequivocal NT teachings with which
your uncertain interpretation of prophetic riddles must agree.
[SUP]Revelations 9 [/SUP]And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; [SUP]10 [/SUP]and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and
we shall reign on the earth.
and you have yet to answer my question in post 767.
we shall reign on the earth.
and you have yet to answer my question in post 767.
Now would you please answer my questions in post #764?
Last edited:
Elin said:
Karraster said:
(The "chapter breaks" were not part of Paul's original letter and perhaps do not help with the flow of the text.)
Chronological Order?
The Bible is not in chronological order. Go to another source to confirm what I just said to confirm I am not giving my opinion only.
those parts were not in the original writing.
Some things in the gospels are not in chronological order, but that does not mean
those things were not in the original writing.
That is pure conjecture.
Be not proud, humble your ways, serve the Almighty with all your strength and love. Submit to Him as our Messiah did submit to Him. Hate not your brother, or the Word of God. Don't mummer and say "the burden of the LORD". It is no burden my friend, it is freedom. Serve the Lord your God while you can. A day is coming to us all there will be no more time to choose.
Yes , elin you are right, only the "elect to sal." will be saved, of any nation; But Israel is God's chosen nation of all nations. The New T. is sooo clear, God has never un chosen the nation of Israel. Todays history proves this, the prophecy is being fulfill of God bring back Israelites to the land of "Palestine", their land given to Abraham for ever.
Pharoah was also chosen by God.
Chosen for mercy, rather than judgment, is what matters to the elect.
Last edited:
K
the breaks are not part of the original. some letters leave off, then pick up again chapters later. I never said they were not part of the original writing, just that it is like they were thrown into the air and landed shuffled.
Even so, it does not change their meaning. It just makes us pay more attention to the subject of the letters, and to whom is being addressed and why. Well, it makes some of us pay more attention.
Even so, it does not change their meaning. It just makes us pay more attention to the subject of the letters, and to whom is being addressed and why. Well, it makes some of us pay more attention.
Elin said:
The NT specifically locates the new earth with the resurrection (Ro 8:19-21),
which is located with the rapture (1Th 4:16-17), all at the end of time.
Nowhere do we find a future temporal earthly kingdom expounded by Peter, James, John or Paul in their letters of instruction and teaching to the NT churches.
Did they forget to tell us about it?
Did they not know about it?
If the apostles themselves did not know about it,
on what basis do we know about it?
Would you please answer the above questions.
which is located with the rapture (1Th 4:16-17), all at the end of time.
Nowhere do we find a future temporal earthly kingdom expounded by Peter, James, John or Paul in their letters of instruction and teaching to the NT churches.
Did they forget to tell us about it?
Did they not know about it?
If the apostles themselves did not know about it,
on what basis do we know about it?
Would you please answer the above questions.
1) a future temporal earthly kingdom
2) in their letters of instruction and teaching to the churches.