What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?
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I thought that I would re post this from post #15
Jesus was born under the law, but He never had a carnal mind. "I must be about my Fathers business." (Luke 2:49) I think I might have found the answer. This is for everybody who reads this post, and not addressing your question only. If He wouldn't have been born under the law, He could not have been our redeemer. Galatians 4:4-5
Here is a conundrum of sorts. Paul preaches not to be under the law to the Galatians, and yet says that it’s carnal not to be subject to the law of God. As we can see by the Greek word“*hupo,” being under the law is to be in an inferior position in comparison to the law. Now, if we are to be **subjectto the law because we are no longer of a carnal mind, we are to be in obedience to the law,(**hupotasso) which puts us right back under the law. Hello???
Galatians 3:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Galatians 4:4-5 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made underthe law,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Galatians 4:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Galatians 5:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
*“Under” 5259.*hupo hoop-o' a primary preposition; under, i.e. (with the genitive case=relating to birth In the comparative, especially of inferior position or condition.
As we see next, “Subject,” “subjection,” and “submit” are all the same Greek word **“huotasso” in the following scriptures. 5293.
**hupotasso hoop-ot-as'-so from 5259 and 5021; to subordinate to obey:--be under obedience put under, be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
Romans 8:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not **subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Hebrews 12:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in **subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? James 4:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 **[/SUP]Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
***“Ordained” 5021. ***tasso tas'-so appears only in certain tenses); to arrange in an orderly manner, i.e. assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot):--addict, appoint, determine, ordain, set.
Acts 13:48 (KJV)
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ***ordained to eternal life believed.
So with these definitions, to be ordained (***tasso) places us in a different *position (*hupo) to the law even though we are in **subjection to the law (**hupotasso) if we are not of a carnal mind even though we are not under it. Henceforth, the change is within us, not within the law, because we are given the capability to see the spiritual relevance of the Law as a parable.
Matthew 13:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Isaiah 6:9-10 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
These 2 scriptures define the carnal mindset.
Jesus was born under the law, but He never had a carnal mind. "I must be about my Fathers business." (Luke 2:49) I think I might have found the answer. This is for everybody who reads this post, and not addressing your question only. If He wouldn't have been born under the law, He could not have been our redeemer. Galatians 4:4-5
Here is a conundrum of sorts. Paul preaches not to be under the law to the Galatians, and yet says that it’s carnal not to be subject to the law of God. As we can see by the Greek word“*hupo,” being under the law is to be in an inferior position in comparison to the law. Now, if we are to be **subjectto the law because we are no longer of a carnal mind, we are to be in obedience to the law,(**hupotasso) which puts us right back under the law. Hello???
Galatians 3:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Galatians 4:4-5 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made underthe law,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Galatians 4:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Galatians 5:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
*“Under” 5259.*hupo hoop-o' a primary preposition; under, i.e. (with the genitive case=relating to birth In the comparative, especially of inferior position or condition.
As we see next, “Subject,” “subjection,” and “submit” are all the same Greek word **“huotasso” in the following scriptures. 5293.
**hupotasso hoop-ot-as'-so from 5259 and 5021; to subordinate to obey:--be under obedience put under, be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
Romans 8:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not **subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Hebrews 12:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in **subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? James 4:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 **[/SUP]Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
***“Ordained” 5021. ***tasso tas'-so appears only in certain tenses); to arrange in an orderly manner, i.e. assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot):--addict, appoint, determine, ordain, set.
Acts 13:48 (KJV)
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ***ordained to eternal life believed.
So with these definitions, to be ordained (***tasso) places us in a different *position (*hupo) to the law even though we are in **subjection to the law (**hupotasso) if we are not of a carnal mind even though we are not under it. Henceforth, the change is within us, not within the law, because we are given the capability to see the spiritual relevance of the Law as a parable.
Matthew 13:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Isaiah 6:9-10 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
These 2 scriptures define the carnal mindset.
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Why should you? Your the one around here telling people they MUST FOLLOW THE LAW. So SHOW US HOW.
I find it amazing you make a claim, and demand, but you DO NOT SHOW US HOW! And now your blaming me?? WOW!
As for showing scripture. the ONLY scripture eyouhave shown is how the law condemns us. How if we do these things we are sinners. And how Christ redeemed us.
YOU HAVE NOT SHOWN US HOW, IN THE LAW, WE ARE TO REST FROM OUR WORK AND OBEY GOD?
lol. SO abraham had the law of moses?
You are the one who needs to think before you respond my friend.
I was not talking about gentiles. I was talking about ALL who lived and died BEFORE moses climbed that mountain and was given the Law of God.
Nah, I think it is 18. But you still have now shown how the words. You will not lie, Do not speak untruths. etc etc. Tell us how to do it.
Vs 18 would be enough would you not think?
Lol.
No. I am asking HOW THE WORDS DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, tell us how to do it?
All it does is condemn me. Because I have done it. Can I actually not do it in the future only because God said do not do it?
THE PHARISEES DID THIS, so it MUST BE MUCH MORE THAN THIS
E
see what I mean, you can not even answer a basic question.
I KNOW what you believe. I am asking you to prove it.
What is so hard with you answering a question such as the one I just asked?
Is it because YOU KNOW IT IS TRUE?
The law is not going to tell me how not to be carnal. IT IS GOING TO SHOW ME HOW CARNAL I AM.
Do you disagree??
and again I ask...
So if I love my neighbor as myself.
I do not need to be told. do not lie. I would never bear false witness against him,why, because I am placing his needs above my own correct?
a simple yes or no answer would suffice.
But if you wish to explain why you said yes or no. that would be fine also
I KNOW what you believe. I am asking you to prove it.
What is so hard with you answering a question such as the one I just asked?
Is it because YOU KNOW IT IS TRUE?
The law is not going to tell me how not to be carnal. IT IS GOING TO SHOW ME HOW CARNAL I AM.
Do you disagree??
and again I ask...
So if I love my neighbor as myself.
I do not need to be told. do not lie. I would never bear false witness against him,why, because I am placing his needs above my own correct?
a simple yes or no answer would suffice.
But if you wish to explain why you said yes or no. that would be fine also
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I already knew you wouldn't understand. And yet it is so simple!!
What laws are not kept by the Fruit of the Spirit that is produced by Christ in us who have faith in Him??? These fruit are not produced by your works but by His.
Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Now lets take on those who practice lawlessness. Practice being the key term.
If you are not caused to walk in His Statutes by the production of Spiritual Fruit in your life then you are breaking the law and practicing lawlessness. You are walking in your own carnal understanding of keeping commandments. You cannot follow the law this way. You cannot be perfect like God is perfect. But you can be perfected by the Lord Jesus if you have faith in Him.
What laws are not kept by the Fruit of the Spirit that is produced by Christ in us who have faith in Him??? These fruit are not produced by your works but by His.
Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Now lets take on those who practice lawlessness. Practice being the key term.
If you are not caused to walk in His Statutes by the production of Spiritual Fruit in your life then you are breaking the law and practicing lawlessness. You are walking in your own carnal understanding of keeping commandments. You cannot follow the law this way. You cannot be perfect like God is perfect. But you can be perfected by the Lord Jesus if you have faith in Him.
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L
eternally gratefull, You posted so quickly that I can believe that you even read the post or considered it.
What part of "Thou shalt not," is difficult? Even as children we know when something is right or wrong by the worlds standards, God's ways are higher than ours, and HIS word takes us deeper into HIS expectations than we can even imagine.
If we can't obey even the least of His instructions, how can we expect that HE will give us more?
Luke 16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
Matthew 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Ephesians 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Ephesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Ephesians 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
The only way to grasp what God expects from us is by truly believing HIM through, with and in Christ, (Not just saying. "I believe," but truly seeking out HIS truth.) Only then does the fruit become evident in our lives.) There are so many promises in this, including the promise that Jesus gave us when HE said, seek, knock and ask. He's given us all the instruction that we need and more... HIMSELF.... Yet most reject His instruction rather than seek it out with HIM...sadly...
The real questions are, how do we overcome those things, and with whom are we made able to overcome those things?
The word of God tells us that "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
When we are in Christ, we are corrected when we are in error, (chastened). We have a part in all of this. We don't just become puppets once we believe but we are to take up our cross and follow HIM, seek out HIS way in all things, believe HIM and apply HIS instruction to our lives as HE reveals the depth of it.
To neglect His instruction is laziness, (slothfulness)
2Co 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
2Co 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.
2Co 13:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
What is truth?
Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Being under the blood of Christ does not mean we can continue in sin, that would be trampling His blood.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Back to the original message on this string. "What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subjet to the Law?"
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Do you see overcoming in that passage? Do you see relationship with Christ in that Passage?
If God's word can't answer your question...there's not much more to say.
Have you ever thought about how Noah knew what animals were clean and unclean. So you are saying that the people who lived before Moses knew that law of Moses automatically? I never endorsed that. I was talking about the Gentiles during the time of Paul.
So your main beef is that I can't show you how to be as righteous as I am? Is that what you think? Get real!
I'm endorsing the word of God, not myself. I am exemplifying why I believe all of the word of God is relevant for believers today, and claiming those that deny the law of God, and cannot understand it are of a carnal mind. If the shoe fits.........
You ask "HOW THE WORDS DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, tell us how to do it?"
God’s words do not bear false witness. You want me to tell you how God’s words do not bear false witness? I said before that I follow the example of Jesus when He said in
John 5:31
[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
John 8:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Deuteronomy 19:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
Proverbs 14:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful witness speaketh lies.
So your main beef is that I can't show you how to be as righteous as I am? Is that what you think? Get real!
I'm endorsing the word of God, not myself. I am exemplifying why I believe all of the word of God is relevant for believers today, and claiming those that deny the law of God, and cannot understand it are of a carnal mind. If the shoe fits.........
You ask "HOW THE WORDS DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, tell us how to do it?"
God’s words do not bear false witness. You want me to tell you how God’s words do not bear false witness? I said before that I follow the example of Jesus when He said in
John 5:31
[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
John 8:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Deuteronomy 19:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
Proverbs 14:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful witness speaketh lies.
I already knew you wouldn't understand. And yet it is so simple!!
What laws are not kept by the Fruit of the Spirit that is produced by Christ in us who have faith in Him??? These fruit are not produced by your works but by His.
Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Now lets take on those who practice lawlessness. Practice being the key term.
If you are not caused to walk in His Statutes by the production of Spiritual Fruit in your life then you are breaking the law and practicing lawlessness. You are walking in your own carnal understanding of keeping commandments. You cannot follow the law this way. You cannot be perfect like God is perfect. But you can be perfected by the Lord Jesus if you have faith in Him.
The reason that there is no law against the “fruit of the Spirit” is because it is the law and the prophets. These nine attributes are defined as a single fruit.
Matthew 12:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
The disciples who walked directly with Jesus didn't have a full understanding immediately, and gaining understanding in order to walk in the truth was and is imperative.
John 16:12-13
12. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
As we continue in ALL of the word, and grow and mature, I believe that we are given more as we are able to bear it and to walk in it, and it's out with the old leaven, and in with the new. So I end this book with the New Testament “fruit of the Spirit.” Was this fruit something endorsed in the Epistles only, or was it God’s will from the beginning? Here’s your answer.
Exodus 20:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Leviticus 19:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Deuteronomy 5:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
1 Kings 1:40 (KJV)
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And all the people came up after him, and the people piped with pipes, and rejoiced with great joy, so that the earth rent with the sound of them.
Isaiah 12:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
Exodus 18:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace.
Leviticus 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And if his offering for a sacrifice of peace offering unto the LORD be of the flock; male or female, he shall offer it without blemish.
Exodus 34:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
2 Samuel 22:36 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy gentleness hath made me great.
Faith is/was ordained as an Old Testament principle to be kept as a priority in the New Testament.
Habakkuk 2:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Romans 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Psalm 45:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
Temperance is self-control as in “not to covet,” or “being drunk” “gluttonous” and so on. It is exhortation of the fruit of the spirit that I endorsed in the only negative, for covet is an attribute of the carnal, and the opposite is the attribute of the Lord’s Holy Spirit.
Exodus 20:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Deuteronomy 21:20-21 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
We would never dream of stoning our own children for being drunk, or rebellious today, but we must still recognize this spiritual aspect. Any loving parent would desire to destroy those actions before they destroy their children. That’s what Jesus has done. God’s love wants us to be separated from those transgressions that separate us from Him. Parents that truly love their children will have the same desire.
Isaiah 32:15-17 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then judgment shall dwell in the wilderness, and righteousness remain in the fruitful field.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
When we study the Mosaic Law we should concentrate on the spiritual meanings, relating those ordinances to the fulfillment of all things through Christ. If the law is spiritual, as Paul said, then we should always be searching for the spiritual meaning. Some will be confrontational saying that Christians need to make a choice between Paul and Moses. They were both called to do God's will in the time sequence God had determined. Why fight about what part of the Word of God is negated when none of it is? If God wanted it to be invalid, He wouldn't have preserved it. If one is going to follow Paul instead of Moses, then they should quit endorsing the Law in the physical realm, rather than the spiritual, because they actually are contradicting the very teachings of Jesus Christ.
It's the carnal mind that concentrates on carnal thoughts, convincing itself of a righteousness that can be found in less than 100% of God. This frame of mind actually believes in itself as being more righteous than the Pharisees because they have determined the Mosaic Law as invalid, extinct, and negated through Christ. There is a rhetorical question that we should ask ourselves. Does the strength of the law expose the weakness of the flesh, or does the strength of the salvation expose the weakness of the law? One cannot have it both ways.
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My friend.
I grew up in a church where the "thou shalt not" people thrived. The demanded we must not forge the law. That the law shows us how to be righteous.
When they would go witness. Instead of showing Gods love. they would say..
You have to stop "insert sin here" if you want to get to heaven. Jesus came to die so you can get there. But you have to stop that sin.
I was embarassed. I was offended by these things. Is this really what God says?
Does God not explain clearly that the unsaved can not stop sin. They they do not have the power to do what is right, that the carnal mind is at enmity with God? So how can they possibly even think of stopping a huge sin habit which has them so ensared in enslaver BEFORE they are born again and given Gods spirit.
I do not have to judge them. God judged them. I have to do as Jesus did. LOVE THEM. And SHOW THEM GODS GOOD NEWS.
Secondly. The same church pushed law down everyone throat. If you are doing this. You are in sin and God will jduge you seriously!
1. Everyone knows the law. so why tell them what they already know?
2. Your judging, Not loving the person when you do this
3. When the person would ask for help. the only help they would get is. God said not to do it., what more do you want. do you believe God when he said do not do this or not??
4. If the sin issue did not stop. Again instead of loving them. They would say "you must not be trusting God. or you would do what he says! The law says do not do this. and your doing it. So you are not trusting in God. Maybe your not saved, or if you continue and you are saved, you will lose your salvation!!
Absolutely NO HELP. No love. No knowledge of how to do what the law tells you not to do. And how to walk a life of Christ. ONLY LAW!!
I have seen many walk away from god (why bother. I can;t live up to his standard) News flash. NO ONE CAN LIVE UP TO GODS STANDARD!!
I have seen people hid sin because of fear. and got deaper in sin. Some died because of their sin. Some ended up hurting so many people because of their sin. Some (as for as the gospel goes) wanted nothing to do with God. How dare a God tell me I have to stop something I CAN NOT STOP before he will save me? What Kind of God does this??
So I vowed from now on. When I see people preach this crap. I WILL FIGHT IT TOOTH AND NAIL.
If people do not like it . thats to bad.,
If your going to preach law. SHOW ME HOW THE LAW TELLS ME HOW TO DO GODS WILL..I have been asking this for MONTHS now. And NO ONE HAS ANSWERED me. So I WILL CONTINUE TO ASK.
I grew up in a church where the "thou shalt not" people thrived. The demanded we must not forge the law. That the law shows us how to be righteous.
When they would go witness. Instead of showing Gods love. they would say..
You have to stop "insert sin here" if you want to get to heaven. Jesus came to die so you can get there. But you have to stop that sin.
I was embarassed. I was offended by these things. Is this really what God says?
Does God not explain clearly that the unsaved can not stop sin. They they do not have the power to do what is right, that the carnal mind is at enmity with God? So how can they possibly even think of stopping a huge sin habit which has them so ensared in enslaver BEFORE they are born again and given Gods spirit.
I do not have to judge them. God judged them. I have to do as Jesus did. LOVE THEM. And SHOW THEM GODS GOOD NEWS.
Secondly. The same church pushed law down everyone throat. If you are doing this. You are in sin and God will jduge you seriously!
1. Everyone knows the law. so why tell them what they already know?
2. Your judging, Not loving the person when you do this
3. When the person would ask for help. the only help they would get is. God said not to do it., what more do you want. do you believe God when he said do not do this or not??
4. If the sin issue did not stop. Again instead of loving them. They would say "you must not be trusting God. or you would do what he says! The law says do not do this. and your doing it. So you are not trusting in God. Maybe your not saved, or if you continue and you are saved, you will lose your salvation!!
Absolutely NO HELP. No love. No knowledge of how to do what the law tells you not to do. And how to walk a life of Christ. ONLY LAW!!
I have seen many walk away from god (why bother. I can;t live up to his standard) News flash. NO ONE CAN LIVE UP TO GODS STANDARD!!
I have seen people hid sin because of fear. and got deaper in sin. Some died because of their sin. Some ended up hurting so many people because of their sin. Some (as for as the gospel goes) wanted nothing to do with God. How dare a God tell me I have to stop something I CAN NOT STOP before he will save me? What Kind of God does this??
So I vowed from now on. When I see people preach this crap. I WILL FIGHT IT TOOTH AND NAIL.
If people do not like it . thats to bad.,
If your going to preach law. SHOW ME HOW THE LAW TELLS ME HOW TO DO GODS WILL..I have been asking this for MONTHS now. And NO ONE HAS ANSWERED me. So I WILL CONTINUE TO ASK.
E
here you go in circles again. You said the law shows us how to be righteous. i asked how the people knew before the law.
Do you ever read what people say??
No. My main beef is the law CAN NOT SHOW people how to live, It can show them they are rightly condemned, And that they need the sacrifice of Christ.
And you have failed to prove otherwise.
No, Your endorsing the law as a means for which how one can stop sin, Live righteous lives, And learn to love like Christ.
And I continue to ask how "you will not covet or bear false witness" does this.
and you continue to go in circles, and never answer my question.
Do you ever read what people say??
No. My main beef is the law CAN NOT SHOW people how to live, It can show them they are rightly condemned, And that they need the sacrifice of Christ.
And you have failed to prove otherwise.
No, Your endorsing the law as a means for which how one can stop sin, Live righteous lives, And learn to love like Christ.
And I continue to ask how "you will not covet or bear false witness" does this.
and you continue to go in circles, and never answer my question.
I already knew you wouldn't understand. And yet it is so simple!!
What laws are not kept by the Fruit of the Spirit that is produced by Christ in us who have faith in Him??? These fruit are not produced by your works but by His.
Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Now lets take on those who practice lawlessness. Practice being the key term.
If you are not caused to walk in His Statutes by the production of Spiritual Fruit in your life then you are breaking the law and practicing lawlessness. You are walking in your own carnal understanding of keeping commandments. You cannot follow the law this way. You cannot be perfect like God is perfect. But you can be perfected by the Lord Jesus if you have faith in Him.
The reason that there is no law against the “fruit of the Spirit” is because it is the law and the prophets. These nine attributes are defined as a single fruit.
Matthew 12:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
The disciples who walked directly with Jesus didn't have a full understanding immediately, and gaining understanding in order to walk in the truth was and is imperative.
John 16:12-13
12. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
As we continue in ALL of the word, and grow and mature, I believe that we are given more as we are able to bear it and to walk in it, and it's out with the old leaven, and in with the new. So I end this book with the New Testament “fruit of the Spirit.” Was this fruit something endorsed in the Epistles only, or was it God’s will from the beginning? Here’s your answer.
Exodus 20:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Leviticus 19:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Deuteronomy 5:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
1 Kings 1:40 (KJV)
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And all the people came up after him, and the people piped with pipes, and rejoiced with great joy, so that the earth rent with the sound of them.
Isaiah 12:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
Exodus 18:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace.
Leviticus 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And if his offering for a sacrifice of peace offering unto the LORD be of the flock; male or female, he shall offer it without blemish.
Exodus 34:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
2 Samuel 22:36 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy gentleness hath made me great.
Faith is/was ordained as an Old Testament principle to be kept as a priority in the New Testament.
Habakkuk 2:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Romans 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Psalm 45:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
Temperance is self-control as in “not to covet,” or “being drunk” “gluttonous” and so on. It is exhortation of the fruit of the spirit that I endorsed in the only negative, for covet is an attribute of the carnal, and the opposite is the attribute of the Lord’s Holy Spirit.
Exodus 20:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Deuteronomy 21:20-21 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
We would never dream of stoning our own children for being drunk, or rebellious today, but we must still recognize this spiritual aspect. Any loving parent would desire to destroy those actions before they destroy their children. That’s what Jesus has done. God’s love wants us to be separated from those transgressions that separate us from Him. Parents that truly love their children will have the same desire.
Isaiah 32:15-17 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then judgment shall dwell in the wilderness, and righteousness remain in the fruitful field.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
When we study the Mosaic Law we should concentrate on the spiritual meanings, relating those ordinances to the fulfillment of all things through Christ. If the law is spiritual, as Paul said, then we should always be searching for the spiritual meaning. Some will be confrontational saying that Christians need to make a choice between Paul and Moses. They were both called to do God's will in the time sequence God had determined. Why fight about what part of the Word of God is negated when none of it is? If God wanted it to be invalid, He wouldn't have preserved it. If one is going to follow Paul instead of Moses, then they should quit endorsing the Law in the physical realm, rather than the spiritual, because they actually are contradicting the very teachings of Jesus Christ.
It's the carnal mind that concentrates on carnal thoughts, convincing itself of a righteousness that can be found in less than 100% of God. This frame of mind actually believes in itself as being more righteous than the Pharisees because they have determined the Mosaic Law as invalid, extinct, and negated through Christ. There is a rhetorical question that we should ask ourselves. Does the strength of the law expose the weakness of the flesh, or does the strength of the salvation expose the weakness of the law? One cannot have it both ways.
We mix the Old testament with the New testament and become super-law keepers?
And you never did answer the main question. What law is not kept by the fruit of the Spirit?
I don't think that the law of God is crap. Iwill never teach legalism as the Pharisees, but I think evey time a personendorses the truth about the law, you assume that they are legalistic as youdescribed you childhood. I'm very sorry for that, but with forgivenesscomes repentance. There is more to the law than condemnation. To the personthat is saved the law is beneficial, and has no more power tocondemn. This post is for all to identify a carnal mind, and one thatcannot be subject to this concept. Don’t fight the truth, accept it withoutjumping on others who talk about its relevance, and benefits. Both you and Iknow that we cannot be save by our own works, and that the woks of the lawcannot save our souls, but just because I endorse the law doesn’t mean I am advocatingbeing saved by works. Please understand this.